Apple II Europlus

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Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15

Good afternoon, just arrived at this magnificent forum I present here as I have not found the post of presentations. I have for a few months, an Apple 2 Europlus that I have restored and cleaned the aesthetic parts. The computer has a Philips monitor, Languaje Card 16k, Prienter Card, Super Serial Card that I buy to connect Apple 2 to a PC and test the two Floppy disks and two joysticks for games(untested). That being said I will try to put some photography soon to show it. My problem is that I bought a Disk with the Operating System Dos 3.3 on ebay but when I insert it into either floppy drive I do not get it to load the operating system(the Apple floppy stopped and black image). I would like to change the belts of the 5 1/4 floppy discs but I do not find the belts or a tutorial how to do it. Has anyone here changed the belt to a 5 1/4 Apple II floppy drive?

Thank you and sorry for my bad english.

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Apple II Europlus

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Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 794
Re: Apple II Europlus

If this link does not have the information that you are looking for then a link on that page will:

http://www.appleii-box.de/H084_1_AppleIIDiskService1.htm

amauget's picture
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Joined: Jan 3 2011
Posts: 244
Re: Apple II Europlus

Hi and welcome aboard.

elfeodeloscalatrava wrote:

I would like to change the belts of the 5 1/4 floppy discs but I do not find the belts or a tutorial how to do it. Has anyone here changed the belt to a 5 1/4 Apple II floppy drive?

I assume you have original Apple Disk II drives.
The belt is probably the last thing I would change.
The first thing to do is to clean the head with alcohol.
The second thing to check is the drive speed. Using a lightbulb, you can adjust the speed of the drive by looking at the circle on the bottom of the opened drive as shown on the SpeedyG's website that insanitor has already pointed to.

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Antony
Apple II forever

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

amauget wrote:

Hi and welcome aboard.

elfeodeloscalatrava wrote:

I would like to change the belts of the 5 1/4 floppy discs but I do not find the belts or a tutorial how to do it. Has anyone here changed the belt to a 5 1/4 Apple II floppy drive?

I assume you have original Apple Disk II drives.
The belt is probably the last thing I would change.
The first thing to do is to clean the head with alcohol.
The second thing to check is the drive speed. Using a lightbulb, you can adjust the speed of the drive by looking at the circle on the bottom of the opened drive as shown on the SpeedyG's website that insanitor has already pointed to.

Thanks for reply, I have a two original floppy disk Apple II Europlus. I will see the links and today I to probe this solutions repairs and I wrote my experience. I recovery other floppy(amstrad and spectrum) changing the belts, but in apple floppy I Follow your directions. Thanks

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Apple II Europlus

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

Ok I see it thanks

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Apple II Europlus

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Joined: Dec 4 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Apple II Europlus

Usually with a floppy drive problem when booting an Apple II the drive will make loud growling grinding noises and beep then show * with a bunch of numbers.
Does yours make quiet normal sounds until the drive turns off? That sounds like it booted normally and you are not seeing the screen. When the disk stops, blindly type
CATALOG then return. Does the drive turn back on? Remove all cards except the 16k language and disk controller and try booting the disk again

Larry G

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

"Bad afternoon" I have been working all day to recover my Apple II Europlus without a positive result. Firstly I opened and cleaned the two floppy disks with alcohol but Disc Two 3.3 still does not run. I have tried to connect a laptop with windows XP to the Apple II Europlus without being able to get it. Install the ADTPro 2.0.2 program on the laptop and with my Super Serial Card (configured swich SW1: 1001111 SW2: 1101100) and the null modem cable I did not get anything following the tutorial and videos. I can not get the computer to connect to the Apple so I can try the floppy drives. I then tried to do Bootstrapping with two audio Jack cables and the problem is that the Apple II keyboard do not work all the keys correctly and I can not type the word "CALL". Right now I do not know where to continue. The only positive of the day is that I have passed some disks of Apple II and I have managed to load the program "The Locksmith Ver.6.0" once loaded the computer does not respond is left alone the image on the screen. I have also tried several disks with games, programs like ProDos but does not load anything and the ProDos gives an Error Configuration Relocation Error.

Now I do not know how to continue .....

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Apple II Europlus

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

retrogear wrote:

Usually with a floppy drive problem when booting an Apple II the drive will make loud growling grinding noises and beep then show * with a bunch of numbers.
Does yours make quiet normal sounds until the drive turns off? That sounds like it booted normally and you are not seeing the screen. When the disk stops, blindly type
CATALOG then return. Does the drive turn back on? Remove all cards except the 16k language and disk controller and try booting the disk again

Larry G

I record 2 videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCvLCxH20U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSMdt0XsLE

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Apple II Europlus

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Joined: Dec 4 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Apple II Europlus

Relocation Configuration Error is because ProDOS only sees 48k. The problem is your 16k card, not the drive. Boot sounds normal. Is your 16k card ribbon properly connected? Check the
ribbon pins and reseat your ram chips on the card. It's not the drive, boot sounds normal and gets past track 0 ok.

Larry G

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

retrogear wrote:

Relocation Configuration Error is because ProDOS only sees 48k. The problem is your 16k card, not the drive. Boot sounds normal. Is your 16k card ribbon properly connected? Check the
ribbon pins and reseat your ram chips on the card. It's not the drive, boot sounds normal and gets past track 0 ok.

Larry G

Ok Tomorrow I will check the card, maybe this damaged or badly connected. Clean the pins and try to reconnect the memories. I will write the result to inform. I keep thinking about the keys that do not work, I imagine that getting a keyboard membrane will be impossible ... thank you very much for all the information they give me.

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Apple II Europlus

amauget's picture
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Posts: 244
Re: Apple II Europlus

Very wierd. The screen AND the drive shut off as soon as the boot process begins.
Let's try to remove all the cards but the Disk II controller.
You have to remove one 4116 RAM chip from the 16 Ko card and put it back where the connecteor was on the motherboard.
Anything new with that configuration ?

Also, have you tried to boot from the second drive (i.e. reverse the two connectors on the controller) ?

It seems your Apple have many issues (keyboard not working, no boot, ...). Do you have tools (multimeter, oscilloscope, ...) for troubleshooting ?

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Antony
Apple II forever

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

amauget wrote:

Very wierd. The screen AND the drive shut off as soon as the boot process begins.
Let's try to remove all the cards but the Disk II controller.
You have to remove one 4116 RAM chip from the 16 Ko card and put it back where the connecteor was on the motherboard.
Anything new with that configuration ?

Also, have you tried to boot from the second drive (i.e. reverse the two connectors on the controller) ?

It seems your Apple have many issues (keyboard not working, no boot, ...). Do you have tools (multimeter, oscilloscope, ...) for troubleshooting ?

If I have tried to load the DOS 3.3 on the two floppy disks and do exactly the same. Today I disassembled all the chips of the Languaje Card 16kg and I have cleaned the sockets of the chips and the slot where it is placed but I have not got anything, it does the same thing that is seen in the video. I will test your method and write the result. I am thinking of buying a Languaje Card on ebay that this operative. My experience is basic and I do not have advanced instruments (oscilloscope, soldering station, etc ...)

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Apple II Europlus

speedyG's picture
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Posts: 2406
Re: Apple II Europlus

Probably it's more usefull to carry out the resurection the other way around
and examine the system from bottom direction to top instead

( in this case starting at 48kB without Diskcontroller - to check if the system works correct
- and then first adding the diskcontroller - if the system is allright - and then trying to boot
with a diagnostic disk to test the system.... )
of tearing the system from top downwards to the base....

at least it might be usefull to also inspect this page for additional information:
http://www.appleii-box.de/D04_resurection.htm

speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

speedyG wrote:

Probably it's more usefull to carry out the resurection the other way around
and examine the system from bottom direction to top instead

( in this case starting at 48kB without Diskcontroller - to check if the system works correct
- and then first adding the diskcontroller - if the system is allright - and then trying to boot
with a diagnostic disk to test the system.... )
of tearing the system from top downwards to the base....

at least it might be usefull to also inspect this page for additional information:
http://www.appleii-box.de/D04_resurection.htm

speedyG

Thanks for the added information. I do not understand how I can check if the memory of the 48kb motherboard is correct. Is there any software that verifies it? From the Apple II can you boot some memory test without loading DOS 3.3?

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Apple II Europlus

speedyG's picture
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Joined: Nov 16 2011
Posts: 2406
Re: Apple II Europlus

There are some programs that you can type in...
but that's not the question to solve at the moment.

The questions are:

first question: Does the computer boot correct and end
at normal display with prompt without diskcontroller and drive present ?

second question: is the keyboard working correct ?
In most cases if you have a problem with access to memory
or memory fault the computer will "freeze" during bootup process and not reach the prompt.

If computer reaches the prompt without disk, then it should be possible
to boot diagnostic disk if 48 kB work correct and disk is working O.K.

So if you think about the purpose whats in your mind ?
determine if the problem is located in the computer or in the disk system ....
first solve problem in computer and then solve problem in disk system...
besides .... that purpose is explained in that page...

and when this problems are solved then you can add the language card and
perform diagnostic with diagnostic disk ?

speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Joined: Dec 4 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Apple II Europlus

For a diagnostic, I recommend Applecillin. It can test all of memory and language card but requires very little disk access and only 16k of working memory to boot.
This copy works:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/disk_utils/diagnostics/APPLE_CILLIN_hr.dsk

Larry G

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

speedyG wrote:

There are some programs that you can type in...
but that's not the question to solve at the moment.

The questions are:

first question: Does the computer boot correct and end
at normal display with prompt without diskcontroller and drive present ?

second question: is the keyboard working correct ?
In most cases if you have a problem with access to memory
or memory fault the computer will "freeze" during bootup process and not reach the prompt.

If computer reaches the prompt without disk, then it should be possible
to boot diagnostic disk if 48 kB work correct and disk is working O.K.

So if you think about the purpose whats in your mind ?
determine if the problem is located in the computer or in the disk system ....
first solve problem in computer and then solve problem in disk system...
besides .... that purpose is explained in that page...

and when this problems are solved then you can add the language card and
perform diagnostic with diagnostic disk ?

speedyG

At the moment I have several fronts open, I have bought a Languaje Card in USA that is tested correctly, I will try to install it when I arrive and we will see if I can start the Dos 3.3 or it is RAM problem of the motherboard. On the other hand I have several keyboard keys that do not work and I want to disassemble the keyboard and try to clean the membrane, locating a replacement phone is very expensive.

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Apple II Europlus

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

retrogear wrote:

For a diagnostic, I recommend Applecillin. It can test all of memory and language card but requires very little disk access and only 16k of working memory to boot.
This copy works:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/disk_utils/diagnostics/APPLE_CILLIN_hr.dsk

Larry G

I understand that this dsk installs from a PC to Apple II through streaming, my problem is that I can not get my PC to detect the Apple II by connecting my Super Serial Card to Slot 2 on the motherboard. I followed the AdtPro manual and video tutorial without a positive result using a nullmodem cable and AdtPro 2.0.2

Thanks for the helpful comments.

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Apple II Europlus

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

elfeodeloscalatrava wrote:
retrogear wrote:

For a diagnostic, I recommend Applecillin. It can test all of memory and language card but requires very little disk access and only 16k of working memory to boot.
This copy works:
ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/disk_utils/diagnostics/APPLE_CILLIN_hr.dsk

Larry G

I understand that this dsk installs from a PC to Apple II through streaming, my problem is that I can not get my PC to detect the Apple II by connecting my Super Serial Card to Slot 2 on the motherboard. I followed the AdtPro manual and video tutorial without a positive result using a nullmodem cable and AdtPro 2.0.2

Thanks for the helpful comments.

Good morning, yesterday I received my new Language Card 16k tested and I have not been able to load DOS 3.3 does exactly the same as before. I decided to take out and check the Ram chips on the motherboard and several of them are in bad shape breaking their paw when placing again. The RAM model is tms4116-20NL ap8136. You know where I can buy or get these new ram chips to change all of the board.

Thanks!

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Apple II Europlus

macnoyd's picture
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Posts: 224
Re: Apple II Europlus

Easy find ... Search eBay for TMS2116 or you can buy them from this guy ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4116-TMS4116-15NL-TI-DRAM-10-pieces-/200438509911

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macnoyd

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

macnoyd wrote:

Easy find ... Search eBay for TMS2116 or you can buy them from this guy ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4116-TMS4116-15NL-TI-DRAM-10-pieces-/200438509911

I to buy 30 units and replace all memories of motherboard. I will write when I try the news memory

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Apple II Europlus

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

Today I replaced all the chips with new ones of the model TMS 4116-20NL AP8428 and AP8423 and the Apple II Does not start well, these screens come out that I attach when I turn on the computer and the floppy drives are off they do not make noise to read the disk.

This is the Apple II No cards connected

This is the Apple II whith Languaje card 16k connect

The reset key does not make sounds now.

I do not know if I give up or you can try something else. With the original memories it worked but it does not do anything anymore.

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Apple II Europlus

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Posts: 209
Re: Apple II Europlus

As others have mentioned- you need to simplify and troubleshoot step by step.
The computer was at least starting, then you took out all the memory and replaced it, now it doesn't work.
So you may now (or still) have bad RAM or it's installed incorrectly (which destroys it).

Take out all cards, and take out all the RAM. Put 8 chips on the bottom row, carefully, making sure all pins are straight and notch pointing correctly.
Does it come up now to Basic prompt?

If not, swap chips until you get it to start with just that one row. You will then have to swap the last chip in the row one by one until you find bad chips and set them aside.

If it then still boots, do the same for row 2, then row 3.

Once all rows are filled, try to boot a DOS 3.3 disk and see where you get. If disks don't work, try to bootstrap ADT.

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Peter Rittwage
Apple II/II+ Registry - Register yours today!
http://diskpreservation.com/dp.php?pg=apple_registry

Joined: Jan 14 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Apple II Europlus

rittwage wrote:

As others have mentioned- you need to simplify and troubleshoot step by step.
The computer was at least starting, then you took out all the memory and replaced it, now it doesn't work.
So you may now (or still) have bad RAM or it's installed incorrectly (which destroys it).

Take out all cards, and take out all the RAM. Put 8 chips on the bottom row, carefully, making sure all pins are straight and notch pointing correctly.
Does it come up now to Basic prompt?

If not, swap chips until you get it to start with just that one row. You will then have to swap the last chip in the row one by one until you find bad chips and set them aside.

If it then still boots, do the same for row 2, then row 3.

Once all rows are filled, try to boot a DOS 3.3 disk and see where you get. If disks don't work, try to bootstrap ADT.

Good morning, I changed all the memory sticks and chips and replaced with new ones. The problem continues and the computer does not give the original screen of Apple II. Now the floppy drive reads continuously without stopping and the screen goes black until you press the reset key that does not sound when you press. I tried to drop everything and leave the 8 memories rams of 16k and I do not know what should I go out to boot the screen with the text Apple II? Can the incorrectly placed keyboard affect the performance of the computer? I lost the photo I had of the placement of the keyboard and I do not know if I have it correctly.

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Apple II Europlus