Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

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Joined: Nov 8 2016
Posts: 6

Hello Everybody,
writing from Italy, so sorry for my typo's...
I own an "Apple IIe" which I bought from a French guy.
By switching it on, the computer beeps and I get a strange "Apple §°" or "Apple $*" something message with nothing else (attached the pic, by now i'm able to use the only TV out which isn't vivid at all).
By opening up the chassis, removing all the expansion cards (there is a "Z80" card (for CP/M I assume), a "Le Chat Mauve" (graphic card) and a "Super Serial" card) and switching it on again, I get the same: beep and the 'usual' weird "Apple §°" message.
The kernel test works "KERNEL OK" (only once it said IOU FLAG: E1), and also the 'Control-Reset" goes to basic.
Is it possible that these two weird chars instead of the "][" is due to the French keyboard layout? It's strange because the ASCII code would be the same...
Is it also normal (I don't remember) that to achieve the '1', '2', etc.. numbers i have to press the 'shift' button (for the ][+ it isn't like that)?
Last, is there a way to get the standard 'QWERTY' keyboard layout instead of the French one (a button somewhere)? In Italy the layout is almost the same of UK or USA so it would be much more use-friendly for me....
Thanks for any help.

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Joined: Sep 20 2016
Posts: 3
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello Startax,

maybe one of the roms of your Apple has a connection problem with the motherboard, try to pull and reinsert the roms carefully (first the video rom) one by one.

Under the keyboard there is a switch for changing the keyboard layout. You get either the left or right character of the cap (for example the left " or the right /) .

Greetings
huttich

speedyG's picture
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Joined: Nov 16 2011
Posts: 2413
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello Startax,

first welcome to the community....
after checkout of the seating of the chips you should verify if your IIe is enhanced or not....
this can be done by comparing the ID numbers of the ROMs and examination of the CPU:
non enhanced is normaly 6502 and enhanced is 65C02.

Beware that throughout the years some guys have "mixed up their units" by repair and swapping in wrong ROMs....
the list of the correct chipset is viewable at:
http://www.appleii-box.de/H000_Chipsets.htm
at the IIe there have been several language dependent versions of ROM that are listed in that page too.....

After you know what kind of unit you have you may probably want to replace the language dependent ROM
by another EPROM.

When you have found the correct ID of the ROM that you desire
you may pick the image of that Eprom from this page:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Computers/Apple%20II/Apple%20IIe/ROM%20Images/
and then program an empty Eprom of the fitting size ( 2K = 2716 ; 4K = 2732 ; 8K = 2764 )
and then replace the current ROM with the new programmed ROM.

sincerely
speedyG

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Joined: Nov 8 2016
Posts: 6
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Oh, thanks so much for your clean explanations and for your warm welcome to the community!
Tonite I'll check it out and will see what happens. About the enhanced or not, I already suppose it's not the enhanced one because i think to remember that the welcome message of the enhanced is "APPLE //e", while the one of the 'plain' one is simply "APPLE ][", so if it's just two chars (even if weird ones) it seems the plain.
Anyway I'll check the board revision and the chips (carefully, because i'm not a great chip guy so I hope not to mess the puppy up) and will revert as soonest.
By the way, also the side cursor prompt is "$" instead of "]"..... Nearly funny...
Your help is pretty much helpful.
Thanks again,

Startax

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Posts: 2413
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

If its only Display of Apple ][ then its not a IIe but only Apple II+ ( european PAL version )
and then it should be Rev. 7 !
In that case the ROM images are availiable at:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Computers/Apple%20II/Apple%20II%20plus/ROM%20Images/

If it is really a II+ then there is no language dependent Char ROM.
The Char ROM then ist 347-0036 .
In such case you will have to turn back to posting #2 and the switch at the keyboard.

But the picture you posted is from IIe case.
picture from mainboard inside would permit to say for sure what kind of unit you have.....

sincerely
speedyG

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the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Joined: Apr 14 2006
Posts: 40
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

speedyG wrote:

If its only Display of Apple ][ then its not a IIe but only Apple II+ ( european PAL version )

Just to be clear, the original (non-enhanced) Apple //e displays "Apple ][" on start up (or have I misunderstood what you were trying to say?).

It is only the when you add the enhancement kit that you get "Apple //e" on start up.

At least this is the case with Australian PAL //e's (and I'm pretty certain US //e's are the same).

Cheers,
Mike

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Joined: Jul 5 2016
Posts: 30
Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

That's exactly my experience with apple ][ appearing on start up of the early 2e's (also in Australia)

I've just been working on a similar problem on an original 2e where the system boots as apple }{ and flickers back to apple ][. In my case I can confirm it was the Video ROM (341-0160-A)... I swapped it for a working version and the problem was resolved.

cheers!

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello Polymorph69 and dc99,

you are correct referring to the unenhanced versions with english layout
released in USA and Austrralia as well as to Great Britain....

the versions distributed to Germany, France and Italy have been released
several months later with minor changes in the ROMs that supported the "special characters"
of those countries.....

and this unit seeems to be french one....

We've seen here also unenhanced versions booting with "Apple IIe" that
changed after enhancement to "Apple //e".

speedyG

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the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello Everybody and much thanks for your support and info.
Yesterday evening I made some tests.
I think it's an Apple IIe not enhanced version. The CPU is a 6502. On the motherboard it's stamped "//e" dated 1982 (I forgot to snap a photo of the revision, I'll do it later).

First of all I resolved the weird chars issue... just found out where the VIDEO ROM was, softly cleaned the chip and put it on the board again, pressed the switch at the bottom of the keyboard and voila.. the "APPLE ][" welcome message appeared... I don't know which was the solution, but finally i have my correct chars again.

I also checked the other chips on the board. They match the 'IIe' non-enhanced version, but saw a 341-0163-A which wasn't shown in the sheet you previously suggested me to check. By googling around i found: http://www.hackzapple.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=0b6251325d5fc93e12272f62f3b22121 which seem to match mine, too.
So in the end it seems I own a French 'plain' IIe... Am I right?

Now if you don't mind I'd have a question about the 'Le Chat Mauve' 80 columns card... By connecting the IIe to the TV thru the 'RCA' TV-out, by pressing PR#3 the 80 columns work, and tested the 64k additional RAM which are ok too...But no hi-res... For having that I think I need to connect the TV or Monitor to the "RVB" connector on the board. I connected a cable I have for the Commodore 128 (which has a RGBI connector for 80 columns mode which match the pins of the Chat Mauve) and connected the S-Video plug to the TV. But it doesn't work. I can see some very disturbed image which 'runs' all around... Is the RGB not the same of RVB? I found a sheet with the scheme but I'm not so great in soldering stuff like this... Any kind suggestions?

Thanks again!

Startax

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Startax wrote:

Now if you don't mind I'd have a question about the 'Le Chat Mauve' 80 columns card... By connecting the IIe to the TV thru the 'RCA' TV-out, by pressing PR#3 the 80 columns work, and tested the 64k additional RAM which are ok too...But no hi-res... For having that I think I need to connect the TV or Monitor to the "RVB" connector on the board. I connected a cable I have for the Commodore 128 (which has a RGBI connector for 80 columns mode which match the pins of the Chat Mauve) and connected the S-Video plug to the TV. But it doesn't work. I can see some very disturbed image which 'runs' all around... Is the RGB not the same of RVB? I found a sheet with the scheme but I'm not so great in soldering stuff like this... Any kind suggestions?

The Chat Mauve card is combining 64 Ko of Auxiliairy memory and Scart output.
There are two models : Eve and Feline. The last one has a XRGB connector but the primary video output is Scart.

The hires display has nothing to do with it as long as you don't deal with double hires.
Have you tried to boot a game ? Have you tried to type at prompt :
HGR:HCOLOR=3:HPLOT 0,0 TO 279,159

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Antony
Apple II forever

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello Startax,

for most questions about french version of the IIe and french cards
the member amauget is the best source. He is lomgtime member resident in France.

For adapting the card to scart maybe this page might be usefull:
http://www.appleii-box.de/H071_applephiliipsRGBconnections.htm

allthough made for another topic ( connecting IIGS by scart to TV or RGB Monitor )
you may see the correct cable connections at the SCART plug also by the pin table
and just replace with correct connections to the card you have if you know there there pinout.

And if you finally prefer to change the Video ROM to english version then
you now have the correct imagenumber and location.

sincerely
speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hello SpeedyG and Antony,
thanks for your suggestions. I'm still out tonite so I i don't know if I'll be able to check the version of the Mauve card and test the hires command.
I'll post some pics for your reference, as soon as I can.... by the way, isn't it possible to attach pics by posting here from the iphone? should I use Dropbox links?
Have a nice day/evening (so relative, indeed...)

Startax

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Startax wrote:

Hello . by the way, isn't it possible to attach pics by posting here from the iphone? should I use Dropbox links?
Have a nice day/evening (so relative, indeed...)
Startax

http://www.applefritter.com/?q=filter/tips
speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hi,
finally I made some test with the IIe...
The Chat Mauve is the 'Feline' one.
I tried the basic commands suggested from Antony and the line shows up correctly. The problem is that the colors are really poor in the TV/monitor I'm using (for example, Pitfall II: https://www.dropbox.com/s/th1xjd5txe16ebw/Pitfall.jpg?dl=0 )...
So I was wandering if I should use the RVB (or RGB) cable instead of the 'standard' RCA tv-out of the Apple IIe in order to achieve acceptable colors...
Final question is about the joystick which I got together with the Computer... (pic of the pins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hm83mqhmm1cjyr2/Joystick%20pin.jpg?dl=0 )... because I see that a couple pins are missing in the connector, is it ok to connect it to the IIe or is it damaged?
Thanks again, ur help is so precious!!!

Startax

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Hi Stardax,
The video output is only black & white on the PAL Apple //e. This is why you don't have colors using the composite video output.
If you want colors, Scart is the way to go. It will produce RGB signals to feed into a TV via Scart connector.
You can also use the XRGB connector but this one needs an Apple III capable connector (it's written in the manual).
All the pinouts are in the manual.
About the joystick, not all the pins are connected. So you can try it without taking to much risk.

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Antony
Apple II forever

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Startax wrote:

Hi,

Final question is about the joystick which I got together with the Computer... (pic of the pins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hm83mqhmm1cjyr2/Joystick%20pin.jpg?dl=0 )... because I see that a couple pins are missing in the connector, is it ok to connect it to the IIe or is it damaged?

Startax

Hello Startax,

again the question is answered in my site....
checkout:

http://www.appleii-box.de/H043_AppleIIGamePortPages.htm

on that page you can view the pinouts of the various joysticks used at the Apple Computers and
the way to adapt them.

speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

About the joystick...

You can also buy a male 9 pin dsub connector, housing and grommets.

You can use a multimeter to test for continuity and replace the connector.

The procedure is similar to the one which is shown in this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdMNdNQufe0

This link is for a place that can sell you the parts:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/amphenol-commercial-products/17E-1724-1/17E-1724-1-ND/1242538

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Thanks for your suggestions!
I'll test this evening and will post the results for both joystick and video out... I'm able to see some colors with the IIe component TV out using a Plasma TV via component to scart adapter but they're very bad (a lot of vertical lines), compared to the pics shown by googling around they're c**p.
I think I should use the RGB out to Scart of the Chat Mauve for better results, but I'm so bad in soldering cables... Maybe should ask somebody much better than me for that...
Thanks again! Great support

Startax

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Re: Apple IIe Issue (weird chars, etc...)

Startax wrote:

Thanks for your suggestions!
...., but I'm so bad in soldering cables... Maybe should ask somebody much better than me for that...

Startax

check this page:
http://www.appleii-box.de/D05_basicsoldering.htm

maybe that can help a bit

speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....