Apple IIe Power Supply

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6502enhanced's picture
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Hi,

I do have the following problem with a power Supply from a IIe:

During working with the IIe there came for a short while smoke from the power supply.
After that, everthing seems to be o.k. - it is working and does not become too hot or so ...

Which parts could have been smoked?

Thanks for any help!

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tokabln's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

In most cases, which seems to be true here as well, it's the Supressor Capacitor (rectangle part) left beside the fuse.
You can use your nose finding the right part as it smells smoked.

It needs to be replaced by an Supressor Capacitor Type X1 same value. As there are 2 Suppressor Capacitors are installed
I recomment to replace both and I always recomment to replace all Electrolyt Condensators at the same time.

As I do not know how familiar you are in working on electricity parts... beside my warning as this is dangerous and could
lead into electrical shocks. So I can't recomment doing this by your own. I'm not responsible for any harm you may take.

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6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Thanks for the answer!

Towards the smell the area seems to be the right one ...

Which 2 do you mean - blue, yellow and/ or red?

tokabln's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

The yellow one is looking damaged... while the blue one needs to be exchanged
as well.

But coming back to your question... it seems to be that you are not very familiar
in electronics... so again... my advise is that someone else with a better knowledge
of what needs to be done should help you here to exchange the defect parts.

Remember my advise... as you are working on a high voltage part, even if you have
disconnected this one from the main voltage (230 V ±23 V), there is a high risk that
failures are leading into electrical shocks and/or ventricular fibrillation.

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speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Hello 6502enhanced,

some additional remarks to the explenations from tokabln:
If you take a close view to the PCB between yellow and red marked components,
you may recognize the brown smeary substance....

that's the stuff that smoked and smells....

The blue marked component is the security filtercap. It got "roasted" and turned color from
goldyellow to brown and somewhere in its side there is possibly a crack. It must be replaced.

Its not easy to purchase.

When it got damaged the coils in component marked red started getting very hot and the
isolation coating between the single wirecoils started melting.... that's another part of the
substance you see between red and yellow marked components. Maybe the coil also
got slightly damaged and is not anymore with in it's specification. It might need replacement.

The yellow marked component is a filtercapacitor. You may recognize that the top of the component
is not flat anymore but rather a bit "bulbed up" - a sure indicator that this capacitor has
started leaking while is was exposed to very high temperature. It must also be replaced.

And when the components have been desoldered for replacement the PCB must be cleaned up from all
that smeary substance.... carefull - that stuff contains bor-acid and can etch off coppertraces
from the PCB within a period of time. It must be removed carefully and complete ! After replacement
of the parts carefulls measure the Powersupplies output before connecting again the the computer
and check if all voltages are back again in specified ranges.

And beware of the warnings of tokebln ! After powerup of the supply the big capacitors ( with the small
red dot on top )get loaded to rather high voltage.... and it takes few time till that capacitors get rid
of their loaded voltage after power off !

speedyG

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6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Thanks a lot for your help!

I will change all 3 parts and clean the mess up.

Where can I get the replacement parts?

What is the exlicit name of the 3 parts?

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

At least for the one part ( marked blue ) which is difficult to find here is a link:
http://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/158X224K/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF0wSKh9ZwLhG0MoWMuAjeZk=

And the yellow marked component here:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PME271Y510MR30/399-5412-ND/1927357

The coil ( marked red ) would be difficult....
pray that it still is intact and must not be replaced...

speedyG

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply
speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Sorry but the cheap ones don't solve in that place ( marked up blue )...
from Conrad it's this one:
https://www.conrad.de/de/entstoer-kondensator-pmr-radial-bedrahtet-022-f-250-vac-630-vdc-20-kemet-pmr209mc6220m100r30-1-st-454555.html
It's required to be class "X2" ( at the end of the type-spec )

and for the yellow marked one:
https://www.conrad.de/de/mkp-folienkondensator-radial-bedrahtet-01-f-450-v-10-15-mm-x-h-135-mm-x-75-mm-seika-mk450k104-1-st-456260.html

speedyG

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c0op3r's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Forget all that and just get this: Replacement Power Supply

Easy install new modern design.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

c0op3r wrote:

Forget all that and just get this: [url=OMG I am 12379 - Damn it]Replacement Power Supply [/url]
Easy install new modern design.

Hello COop3r,

first of all: "forget that all and get this" ...- well this attitude is NOT polite !
instead: "this is a alternate solution:".... that's a far more polite attitude....

second:
some people prefer to get their original computer running again with as few
"substituted parts as possible" or in other term some prefer to remqain with the
rule "to keep as original as possible"....
that has good reason: the more original you preserve your computer the higher the value....

of course their is also the other fraction:
"i want it working and don't want to spend money or efforts"
but that reduces in long term the value of the unit....

it's like a old house...
you have the choice to repair the facility
or you may "repair" with a stick of dynamit and just blast it away
and place instead a cheap mobile home.... but not everybody would prefer tzhat kind of "handling"

and yes - in case somebody asks - i also offer that kind of solution:
http://www.appleii-box.de/H037_AppleIIupgradingPowersupllies.htm

sincerely
speedyG

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6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Thanks a lot for the links, Speedy - great!

I just ordered the "blue" and the "yellow".

Do you have the name of the red one? I would like to search for it either ...

COop3r, Speedy hit the nail on the head. But for short: That's the last thing I would do. I wouldn't also built a 2016 engine in a Porsche from 1966!
The Apple II is an antique vintage part of history with the power to offer still solutions for actual computer tasks - like VisiCalc is able to do. But
this requieres the right mind of the user. The old technique claims special work and time - but the result is a feeling and atmosphere that you only can get
from these parts of history. This 1966 Porsche can't drive like a modern 911 turbo S - and he should not do that, because that turbo S can't give you the great unique feeling of a 1966 Porsche!

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Unfortunatly the filter choke with the 2 coils is a part that Apple got
manufactured from a supplier as a so called "custom part".
But several manufacturers offer similar parts.

But the hunt for that part lacks from several problems:
In many catalogs the sellers don't give complete details like
the measurement of the distance between pins, no. of coilwindings,
connection of the windings to the pins ... etc. ....

But at the other hand you will prefer a part that exactly fits in the
drilled holes of the PCB and has exactly same specs and connections inside like the original...

I'm performing a search for a replacement..... but that might require several days...

You can support this research by one task done by yourself:
Take a measurement ruler ( preferable in cm ) and take a picture from the specific solderside area
of the PCB ( where the solderjoints of the Coil is together with the ruler besides in the
picture ) so i can guess precisely the distances between the pins.
That picture from solderside will also enable me to calculate how the coils are
connected to the pins.

the photo will be usefull because Apple used about 6 to 8 different Powersupply models
within the series of Apple IIe. And i only have material from about 5 of that supplies.

sincerely
speedyG

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6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Hi Speedy,

I hope this is the right pic (if not - no problem, I can take more...).

Here you see the solderside. The black quad markers the soldering points of the red part. The arrows show the distance between the soldering points.

Thanks for the help!

c0op3r's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

I meant no offense, the end result looks factory, thats why I went with it. I have bought alot of expensive cards for the PC and dont want to risk some old power supply part letting AC slip by and kiss my cards good bye.

I understand if you want the purist idea and want to rebuild the Power supply you have.

So again no offense, intended it was just another idea end result looks 'Stock'

My Powersupply installed

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

The picture serves it's duty.
Now i can view a replacement with correct measurements or at least as close as possible.
speedyG

to COop3r,
i did not recognize offense, just a attitude that we try to avoid....

I carry on respect to both fractions....
some of the new stuff is really amazing ...
just for example purchased a Carte Blanche II
and i'm making new cards for Musicians ( with synthisizer functionality )

and your solution is a really nice done job !

speedyG

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

c0op3r wrote:

I meant no offense, the end result looks factory, thats why I went with it. I have bought alot of expensive cards for the PC and dont want to risk some old power supply part letting AC slip by and kiss my cards good bye.

I'm with you, c0op3r.

If you've got a PSU that is so old that it's X1 and/or X2 capacitors have exploded, then it might be time for a PSU swap with the one you mentioned.

I've seen the video from Kansasfest on it.

My experience has been that I've had to replace all of the Power Supplies for all three of my iie computers.

The ones I found in the iigs computers were different.

Either they didn't work at all, one had low voltages and the rest work but some of those have had heat marks on the PCB in which case it might be a good idea to throw away those too.

In replacing the iigs power supplies I think I have a couple of extra ones but I still have to verify my inventory.

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

insanitor wrote:

I'm with you, c0op3r.
If you've got a PSU that is so old that it's X1 and/or X2 capacitors have exploded, then it might be time for a PSU swap with the one you mentioned.
I've seen the video from Kansasfest on it.
My experience has been that I've had to replace all of the Power Supplies for all three of my iie computers.
The ones I found in the iigs computers were different.
Either they didn't work at all, one had low voltages and the rest work but some of those have had heat marks on the PCB in which case it might be a good idea to throw away those too.
In replacing the iigs power supplies I think I have a couple of extra ones but I still have to verify my inventory.

Insanitor

Thanx for the understanding, I did not mean anything bad or with attitude about it but I guess I came off as harsh. The truth is I even gave my original power supply away to another member here for parts, that was my point of 'offering' my suggestion.

Here is a shot of my //e with the cards installed:

I have that uprated power supply installed and no one would ever be the wiser that it is not factory without opening the power supply case. Also I never have to worry about it taking out my motherboard or cards.

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

c0op3r wrote:

Insanitor

Thanx for the understanding, I did not mean anything bad or with attitude about it but I guess I came off as harsh.

Hey, you don't see me pointing any fingers at you.

I simply said that I agree with your suggestion when it comes to replacing those power supplies in the case of an Apple iie.

The iigs is a different animal.

Nice cards you got there!

Care to list them for us?

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Hello 6502enhanced,

did some research, but it's impossible to find a exact replacement.....
but at least i found a replacement the will work with some tricky
handling of it's measurements....

https://www.conrad.de/de/netzdrossel-10-mh-110-m-34-a-wuerth-elektronik-we-fcl-744866103-1-st-1385268.html

besides the picture from solderside uncovered another possible problem.
If you view the pictures below please also take care of the solid red arrows !
They spot the security grounding wire of the supplycase. The solderingjoint of that wire
does not look very solid and correct ! If this confirms by inspection - it is upmost
important
to take care of this problem and take care that the wire has solid
solderingjoint to the trace at the PCB - otherwise the security function of
grounding the case to prevent electric shock might be disabled !

The full datasheet of the replacement coil is here:

http://www.appleii-box.de/APPLE2/powersupplies/replacement/DrosselDatenblatt.pdf

here is a view to the compressed infos:

there are 2 coils and it is important to keep care of the order of that coils in the
component ! 1 coilwinding is between pin 1 and pin 2 and the second coilwinding is between pin3 and pin 4 ! I added violett drawing to indicate the order of that coilwindings.

I marked in the pictures with yellow numbers the way that the pins should be ordered on the PCB !

Like i explained that coil won't fit exactly in the PCB-holes. So you will need to do some additional soldering
at the bottom side of the coil to add some extra wire and bending that wire to fit in the
original holes of the former coil.

At the moment i would recommend to first change the capacitors and check if the old coil is
still working and the powersupply operates correct. The replacement and transplantation of this
replacement coil is only recommended if the original coil is really damaged !

But don't forget to check the case grounding problem. THAT IS A MUST !

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

insanitor wrote:
c0op3r wrote:

Insanitor

Thanx for the understanding, I did not mean anything bad or with attitude about it but I guess I came off as harsh.

Hey, you don't see me pointing any fingers at you.
I simply said that I agree with your suggestion when it comes to replacing those power supplies in the case of an Apple iie.
The iigs is a different animal.
Nice cards you got there!
Care to list them for us?

I never thought you were pointing a finger, I totally got what you were saying.

I will start a new thread as to not take over this one here or have two conversations going in here at once.

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Hi Speedy,

thanks a lot for your work! That helps a lot!

I will change the capacitors and check if the old coil is still working and the powersupply operates correct.

Towards the security grounding wire of the supplycase: I checked the solderingjoint of that wire and it is o.k. - looks really different on the pic!

The capacitors should arrive tomorrow ... let's see what happens.

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

insanitor wrote:

Nice cards you got there!
Care to list them for us?

Here you go: Build and Cards

6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

Hi Speedy,

I changed the two and now everything works perfectly all right!

Thanks for your help!

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Re: Apple IIe Power Supply

c0op3r,

Really nice build.

Steven Smile

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