Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply replacement question.

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I've been using a Apple IIgs ROM 01 for some time. Recently I bought a few basic IIgs CPUs & one of them was a ROM 3 version Apple IIgs. Was wondering what everyones opinion on which they'd use. On a side note what do you think of the Little Power Adapter for the the IIgs as a replacement for the orginal IIgs power supply? Is there any other options? I apprieate everyone's input.

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transwarp II guy's picture
Joined: Mar 7 2013
Posts: 465
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

When you say ROM 3 CPU are you referring to the processor or the entire motherboard? An upgrade from a ROM 1 motherboard to a ROM 3 motherboard is noticeable. The ROM 3 motherboard has over 1MB of RAM built in on the motherboard, as well as 256kb of ROM space holding the most up to date 5.x toolsets. (in comparison ROM 1's had 256kb of on board memory and 128kb of ROM space)The 5.x toolsets are supposed to speed up the computer by 5-10% alone. A lot of other small bugs were worked out. Also the clock battery was placed in a removable socket as compared to the soldered in version on the ROM 1.

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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

The ROM 03 is quieter. I'd use that one.

transwarp II guy's picture
Joined: Mar 7 2013
Posts: 465
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

MickyAAZ wrote:

On a side note what do you think of the Little Power Adapter for the the IIgs as a replacement for the orginal IIgs power supply? Is there any other options? I apprieate everyone's input.

As for other options for the power supply, Buggy has a high watt external power supply set up that is supposed to work quite well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-IIGS-IIgs-gs-BUGG-POWER-EXTERNAL-POWER-SUPPLY-150-WATTS-40-00-S-H-/321021166077?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4abe5a41fd&nma=true&si=YPsFbLM0842qQpUBeq1gBvVQYdg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If your planning to overclock and run lot's of ram the power supply above is a good option, just with a sacrifice of space.

I personally have never used the Little Power Adapter yet..

k4lmp's picture
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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

I have a Buggie power supply on my ROM03, and it works great. It sits on the floor under the desk.

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Posts: 356
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

Well first, let's make sure you know that the LittlePower isn't a power supply itself - it's an adapter only, so you can connect an ATX, mini-ATX or Pico-ATX power supply (http://www.mini-box.com/Power-Supplies-Kits)... the latter being what James Littlejohn designed it for.

The LittlePower + Pico-ATX solution is the most expensive of all your options, but it's also the smallest. With it, you get a lot of extra space inside the otherwise cramped IIGS case for hacking projects. The Pico also has an extra one or two power outputs, so you have juice for booster fans or any other hacks you'd care to power. Without the original supply inside, a Kensington System Saver moves air around much more efficiently inside the IIGS keeping the internals MUCH cooler.

The 'Buggie' supply mod is functional, relatively cheap. You can easily do it yourself - he didn't invent the mod, he just popularized it, wrote an article about it and sells them. The wiring diagram is available with a little Googling. I prefer to use Buggie-style supplies on my bench only - they're an eyesore and a bit of a kludge.

Some people will tell you the ROM 01 is more compatible than the ROM 3 - that's true with a very few, older titles. However, the ROM 3 has more Tools in ROM, so it boots slightly faster, has a quieter bus, doesn't force you to choose between your mouse and Your Card in slot 4 (while in GSOS) and Appletalk support is more flexible. There are a couple of different board revisions of the ROM 3 - one rev is known to have some reliability issues.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

Hello MickyAAZ,
one thing not mentioned yet: the ROM3 has several improvements....
one improvement is that the graphic abilities of the ROM3 is much less faulty than the ROM1...
second change: the internal ROM routines related to DMA, IRQ and NMI have been improved.... -
but this caused a slight move of the entyadresses in the Monitor ... that caused that some
expansioncerds developed for the IIe that use DMA or IRQ don´t operate anymore correct in the ROM3:
for example some Mocking board versions and some other soundcards.....
the disabilities/issues of the internal soundchip did still remain unsolved....
some of the removed bugs of the ROM1 cause the ROM3 to operate less instable with System 6 than ROM 1 did....
at the ROM 3 some minor changes have been made to the "WOZchip".....
timing to interfacecards have been improved at the ROM3....
thats just a short collection of the changes....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

Quote:

some of the removed bugs of the ROM1 cause the ROM3 to operate less instable with System 6 than ROM 1 did....

Can you rephrase that? Not sure I understand.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

Hello MickyAAZ,
System 6 does run at the ROM1 version - but with a remarkable list of known issues....
( see entire list of technotes released by Apple and by the User Groups about that topic )
nearly 60% of this issues have been solved with release of the ROM3 version....

most of these issues are related to non reliable behaviour while accessing DMA or IRQ requests....
this was the reason, that the code has been completely revised and extended....
Apple even was forced to relocate several entrypoints of that routines because the code has been extended - resulting in dropping the compatibility to programs written on the ROM1 version of the IIGS.

If they call that routines - the routines crashed on the ROM1 version and won´t work on the ROM3 ( missing correct entrypoint of the routine and ending up in "Nirvana".....)

in general this problems are related to measurementcards like AD or DA interfacecards and partially also to some Games.....

some Midicard made for the IIe won´t run in the ROM3 version but they do at the ROM1 version only with mistakes
other MIDI cards run at the ROM3 without mistakes while they are not able to run on the ROM1 or IIe....

hope this explains what i posted
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

I was lucky enough to score 3 IIgs machines, 2 ROM 01 and 1 ROM 03. The ROM 01s were WOZ editions, so I put one of the WOZ lids on the ROM 03. I prefer to use that version more, the few times I have used it. It is quite a bit faster, and since it has 1mb of onboard RAM (Well, 1.125mb, but who is counting?) plus the 1mb on the RAM expansion card I got in one of the ROM 01s, it should run System 6 quite well. Now I just need to get a CFFA or SCSI card, have not decided which. I got a couple external hard drives that match the IIgs case, kinda curious what is on them, but at the same time, a CF card would be faster, quieter, and easier to maintain.

Oh, and a user replaceable battery is a must I think. Funny, even in the 80's, Apple did not want you replacing your own battery. I guess I should consider myself lucky the Mac II I have has a adapter on it that allows it to take 2 1/2 AA batteries, but they are user replaceable. Never seen another one.

Or I guess if you are looking for an internal hard drive, and need a new power supply, try and score a Vulcan, but good luck finding one of those.

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Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

THANKS for all info on ROM 01 versus ROM 3.  I was referring to the whole board versus the 3 as was looking at moving 3meg ram card, Transwarp card, etc from rhe ROM 01 computer to the ROM 3.  Whole in therory would the CFFA3000 card work better in the ROM 3
     info here on the difference was helpful.  I actually have two 100mb internal Vulcan hard drives on two seperate IIgs systems.  Both has the power supply not giving the CPU power in the last two months.  Go figure on two Vulcans power supply both going out at about the same time.  Definately like Applied Enginering combo of power supply, fan, & hard drive in same enclousure size as orginal IIgs power supply.
     Hard drives are still good on both Vulcans as when I hookup a power source to hard drive & hard drive to internal hard drive card they boot & have access to the contents.  One system has the orginal Transwarp card & the other not having one   I'm actually waiting on the CFFA3000 cards myself for a upgrade & more versitality with the USB port.

Thanks for opening my eyes on Little power adapter as I thought by mistake that it would replace, but not so costly compared to others.  Other than the orginal IIgs power supply, little power adapter, & bugg power is there any other options on power supply for IIgs CPUs?

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Posts: 356
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

The CFFA3K works equally well in either Apple IIGS.

I'm a fan of Applied Engineering gear. They made great stuff back in the day, but a lot of it is far from perfect. Some of their products weren't completely thought out IMO (obvious design oversights) or were skimpy on quality. There are also the few AE peripherals that don't play nice with their other products. It may have been par for the course back in the 80's though.

Currently, your best option for a heavy duty power supply is the Buggie. James Littlejohn *might* have some LittlePower adapters left in his inventory, but he's not planning to make any more add-ons for awhile. If you get one, consider yourself fortunate. So, between his hiatus and the shutdown of ReactiveMicro, your only choices might be a Buggie PSU or roll your own similar power supply.

If you do score a LittlePower and decide to go the Pico-PSU route, you can still use your Vulcan as long as you're willing to perform a few minor modifications. It's ***not practical*** but like you, I prefer the internal hard drive and power supply concept it provides. Why? I (being a little obsessive compulsive about it) have gone to the trouble of equipping this particular IIGS with nothing but Applied Engineering products so it's a bit of a theme IIGS.

RAMKEEPER + GS-RAM III (4MB RAM) + GS-RAM II (4MB ROM) - I could have added more RAM using a 6MB card, but decided not to.

Slot 1: PARALLELPRO
Slot 2: SERIALPRO
Slot 3: TRANSWARPGS 12.5MHz/32K
Slot 4: SONICBLASTER
Slot 5: SMARTPORT: 2xAE 3.5 DRIVES 2xAE 5.25 DRIVES
Slot 6: PC TRANSPORTER W/DUAL TRANSDRIVE
Slot 7: VULCAN GOLD 100MB

AE CONSERVER

AE Vulcan supplies are notorious for failing in a big way when they die. If yours is dead, first check the fuse. If that checks out, you can do a little drilling and remove the original PSU. You can leave that space empty, then it's just a matter of powering the Vulcan HD and fan off the Pico - a few wires routed into the case is all that is needed, OR - you can find a replacement PSU for it. Be sure to find one that supplies ALL the required voltages +/-5V and +/-12V.

Also, see Polymorph's replacement PSU info here:

http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/~mike_stephens/apple2/hardware/Vulcan_Power_Supply/index.html

transwarp II guy's picture
Joined: Mar 7 2013
Posts: 465
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

sfahey wrote:

RAMKEEPER + GS-RAM III (4MB RAM) + GS-RAM II (4MB ROM) - I could have added more RAM using a 6MB card, but decided not to.

Slot 1: PARALLELPRO
Slot 2: SERIALPRO
Slot 3: TRANSWARPGS 12.5MHz/32K
Slot 4: SONICBLASTER
Slot 5: SMARTPORT: 2xAE 3.5 DRIVES 2xAE 5.25 DRIVES
Slot 6: PC TRANSPORTER W/DUAL TRANSDRIVE
Slot 7: VULCAN GOLD 100MB

AE CONSERVER

I like.....

speedyG's picture
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Posts: 2413
Re: Apple IIgs ROM 01 or ROM 3? And a IIgs power supply ...

Hello MickyAAZ,
if you are just searching for more power you could probably think about a "homebrew" solution...
i did such quite often for my other Apple II series because they have all been loaded entire with cards...
i made a page on that topic:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/powersupply_upgrading.htm

sincerely apeedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....