Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

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Hi folks....

As my logic board is dead, I am now in the process of rebuilding my CC. I wondered if anyone was able to install a solid state drive in your CC? It seems like a long shot. But I thought I would ask.

jack

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solid state hard drive in your CC? - how about a Flash Drive?

So, if it is next to impossible to put a fast solid state hard drive in a Color Classic, how about this:

Would it be possible to install a USB flash drive and some how adapt that so it would interface with the SCSI connector?

I suspect other solid state solutions are around. Considering how small a flash drive is, one would have room to build a small board for components to properly connect the flash drive to the SCSI chain.

I am sure I am not the first person to think about this....

Thoughts? Feedback?

jack the new kid mailto:mraroid@gmail.com

eeun's picture
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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

You could go SCSI to IDE, then IDE to SATA.

There are also rare SCSI to PCMCIA adapters, then use a cheap PCMCIA to CF adapter card. I'm not sure if it will allow booting from the CF card, though.

Both the above options are very expensive, starting at above $150-ish excluding drive cost. But it's possible.

In a similar position with my 6100 and wanting a larger drive, I bought an 80-pin scsi drive off ebay and a 80-to-50-pin adapter. That would be my recommendation for you. It works fine.
Looking around ebay, you could buy a working 9.1GB drive and an adapter for about $20 total.

Considering the LC/CC's fairly slow scsi bus, as well as the amount of storage space needed for a 68K Mac, you aren't going to benefit from the SATA drive over scsi.

For USB, adapters going the other way were briefly popular but I've never seen a scsi host to USB peripheral adapter.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

You are right. Looking over Amazon, this stuff is expensive!

I found this site:

http://www.redrocktech.com/products/35-storage-products

But have not contacted them to check on prices. Another advantage to going solid state is that the drive would draw less current, putting less of a load on the power supply. And also, the entire computer would run cooler.

I will report back on prices. Which SCSI interface is in the CC? Is it the 3.5" SCSI 68 pin wide hard drive?

jack

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Here is a link to a fellow who used a flash drive in his SE/30:

https://duxbridge.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/creating-ssd-for-my-macintosh-se30/

This is still looking expensive no matter how you cut it....

jack

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

mraroid3764 wrote:

Which SCSI interface is in the CC? Is it the 3.5" SCSI 68 pin wide hard drive?

50-pin scsi on the logic board (same for all Macs that have scsi on the logic board).

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Would that be the 50 pin narrow connector?

Thanks

jack

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Redrocktech SCSI SS drives

I just got off the phone with Redrocktech. Talked to the very nice fellow regarding a SCSI solid state drive. I was asking about this one:

http://www.redrocktech.com/datasheets/rrt-35sfs-sn140429.pdf

It sounded like a good solution but even the smallest drive was $1,295.00. He did tell me that they make the drives them selves and he can make any drive appear to be any size we wanted. But the price is too far over the top for me and I think probably almost anyone.

I told him about what we were trying to do and he had a suggestion. He tells me that one can buy super fast 80 pin SCSI drives that are 7,200 RPM, 100,000 RPM and even 150,000 RPM drives. That will not solve any heat issues and they may suck more power from the smaller power supply in the CC classic. But I am not sure. Perhaps modern SCSI drives need less current then the old drives that were shipped back when the CC was new. He says that one would only need a simple, passive, pin adaptor that would change the 80 pin SCSI to the 50 pin SCSI narrow connector we need.

Has anyone installed a 100,000 RPM or faster drive in your color classic? Did it draw more current then the original drive? Is it producing more heat? I read some place that one can do a fan mod that would give you a larger fan and that may reduce the heat inside.

Any feedback welcome

Jack the new kid

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

mraroid3764 wrote:

Has anyone installed a 100,000 RPM or faster drive in your color classic? Did it draw more current then the original drive? Is it producing more heat? I read some place that one can do a fan mod that would give you a larger fan and that may reduce the heat inside.

Pretty sure the rpm ratings are 10,000, not 100.000.

That's what's in my 6100: a Seagate St373405, 72GB 10,000 rpm 80-pin scsi. No power issues. No heat issues. I don't think you need to worry much about either swapping hard drives. The consumption/heat difference between the old stock drive and a new one will be small compared to how much the rest of the computer is using.

To answer above, Macs don't use the narrow connector internally. It looks like an IDE or floppy connector, but longer.
Have you actually got your CC apart? Taking a look at what's in there would be your best reference.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

If you're willing to do some non-reversible modifications, you could do the old-school Power Color Classic mod:

http://www.applefritter.com/powercolorclassic/stuartbell/pcc2

You'd end up with built-in IDE that way, to connect a CF card adapter.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

I believe the cheapest way is SCSI2SD

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Wayne wrote:

I believe the cheapest way is SCSI2SD

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

That's quite cool. I haven't come across that until now. Looks rather fussy to set it up for a Mac, but it would do the job.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

I have two of the original model. One I have in an external case where I can access the microSD card. I have a few different microSD cards for different Macs and Apple IIs.
Wasn’t much different setting up than a regular hard drive.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Wayne,

I like the idea of using a Disk II shell for something like this.

Steven Smile

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Maybe I acted too soon. I love that SCSI to ATA adaptor.

This is what I did. I bought this from Japan:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261883919980?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

With postage, it was $125.00. Then I bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300750728170?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It is a new card. I know they have a limited read/write ability (sort of like a solid state drive, but not as good). I read on a FAQ some place, that someone using a set up like this (but not the same brand of SCSI Converter Card) had some issues with it not starting quickly. A fellow I spoke with told me he bought the above adaptor and it has been running in his CC with out issues of any kind.

While speed is the reason I started looking into this, I believe it (and the same goes for a solid state drive mod) will give our CCs two other big advantages:

1) Less current draw on our power supply. I have not re cap'ed my power supply. I believe it runs OK. But if I can do something to my CC that will reduce the current draw from my power supply, I think the power supply will last longer and, if you want to trick your CC out and you are pushing the envelope of the current you are drawing from the power supply, this mod, or swapping out your mechanical hard drive for a solid state drive, will greatly reduce the current draw on your power supply.

2) Heat!!! Heat is your enemy! When engineers source parts for, say a logic board, the parts come rated in MTBFR (Mean time between failure rate) at a temperature. Lets say that temperature is 145F and the MTBFR is 4 years. Guess what happens when your reduce the temperature of that 125F - 130F heater, eh, I mean SCSI mechanical hard drive, in your CC? The entire temperature inside your CC drops. Solid State drives do not generate any heat at all - they take on the temperature of the environment they are in.

So speed, reduced current draw on your older power supply, and reduced heat. All a big plus IMHO.

Looking at the FAQ you folks have posted here, I read about this fan mod:

http://www.colourclassicfaq.com/general/upgrades.shtml#Q1.2.8

While the source for the fan is now dead, I googled the fan name and model number and found it for about $4.00 or so. I do not know about the noise it might cause - I hope it is almost as quite as the stock fan. But I do like to keep my computers cool, so I am going to do the fan swap. With postage and for less then $10.00, I'll bet you can drop the temp in your CC by at least 5F and maybe as much as 10F. But I will post my results before and after when my equipment arrives.

Thanks to everyone here for the many tips. I would not have been able to make it this far with out all of your help.

jack

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Wayne (or anyone)....

I could not tell from looking at the photos here:

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

If the SD card was a micro SD card or a standard sized SD card.

Also, do you believe one would see a speed difference between a Class 10 SD card over the slower Class 4 SD card?

How big of a "drive" will 7.1 to 8.1 allow you to format to? I am trying to figure out a size, in GBs, of which SD card one could install.....

Thoughts?

Thanks for that great link you posted.

jack the new kid

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Wayne (or anyone)......

After reading more here:

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

I have answered many of my own questions. But I am still fuzzy on a few items.....

Is the USB connector on this card used just to supply power to this SCSI to SD converter card? One can not use it as a USB interface for example, correct? For example, one can not plug a USB device into it and expect it to work, right?

Also, I am a bit mixed up on the overall transfer rate across the CC logic board. So I am still unable to answer the question of if I would see a speed increase if I moved from a slower Class 4 SD card to a faster Class 10 SD card. Do you know?

And lastly, in the SCSI2SD FAQ it says:

"Artificial limits on the SCSI disk size (eg. limit size to 4G to avoid OS bugs)"

and

"Standard microSDSC (1GB maximum size)"

and

"Emulates up to 4 SCSI devices"

I thought either a version 7 something OS, or a version 8 something OS, would let me format a SCSI drive up to 2GBs large. Am I remembering this incorrectly?

Also, if the SCSI2SD device will only allow a micro SD card no larger then 1 GB, how do I get 4GBs into my CC? Could the developer be talking about installing four SCSI2SD cards in a color classic?

I will send the developer some email and see what he says. This looks to be a elegant solution. I really appreciate your post.

jack the new kid

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

The USB conneter is used for updating the firmware.

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Re: Have you put a solid state hard drive in your CC?

Years back I used a Disk II case for a SCSI drive. Used an LC power supply.