THIS is Laughable!

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Quote:

The last "Unopened IIc" was sold on eBay a couple of years back for $2,600.00.

No, that was #121067858018, NEW APPLE IIC PERSONAL COMPUTER MONITOR OKIDATA PRINTER and it sold for $850.00 on 02/18/13.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

so... this guy wants 75 bucks for a keyboard that's missing two keys?

transwarp II guy's picture
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Re: THIS is Laughable!

It wouldn't shock me if it sold for that much lol. Those II+ keyboards have gone through the roof! Have you seen the original II keyboard that went for $450?!

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

In fact that kind of keyboards are also searched by the people building up a Apple-1 replica....
it seems a lot of them don´t want to realize that a keyboard from much cheaper clone will serve
same duty as well.....

speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

complete keyboard, probably (since I've bought complete units for less before.) but with missing parts? sounds like it's time I reassemble the parts keyboard and sell that whole instead.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Quote:
Quote:

Re: THIS is Laughable!
gsmcten wrote:
I took one look at the CFFA 3000 and contacted "Cheermom" of the actual price per unit.
She informed me that they were no lomger available.

I told her that Rich would be shipping out the next batch in September and that I had one on order.

She replied that I must have too much time on my hands to be looking at the Apple II items on eBay. lol
Apparently, she does not believe me as she is still asking $300.00.

Oh Well...

Steven

I'll note that I wasn't joking that it's Steven Landon - he hangs out on #classiccmp on Freenode, and openly says that cheermom is selling stuff for him (because he's lost so many eBay accounts...)

I don't actually believe that he's not running the account now, but...

i actually bought one of his CFFA3000, $150 + free shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251323139161?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

not too bad... it's still in transit

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

speedyG wrote:

it seems a lot of them don´t want to realize that a keyboard from much cheaper clone will serve
same duty as well.....

I would love to hear where clone keyboards can be had; since picking is rather slim on fleaBay. Indeed, a real Apple keyboard is a lot easier to come by than clone keyboards.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!
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Re: THIS is Laughable!

somehow, when it's called a "Disc Reader" instead of disk drive, it just sounded so much more expensive... Laughing out loud

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

The best joke is inside the offer-text:

"It´s a find for lifetime"

I do agree.... bidding minimum 3000,00 Bucks and buy immediatly 6000,00 bucks...

if anybody places a bid above 150 bucks it´s for sure that - if he recognizes the real value -,
he´ll start every day in the rest of his life by crushing his head to the wall besides the door.....
just to find out if he woke up in another galaxy or if he turned back to this galaxy......

just to make proof if the rest of his lifetime ( after "the find for lifetime" ) has allready passed by.....

and maybe the term "diskreader" is the plain truth and the drives probably can´t write....

speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!
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Re: THIS is Laughable!

That Lisa has 485 watchers lol!

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

They will probably get it too.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

I've never followed the Lisa, and maybe I don't understand collectors, but I think that's laughable. Where are you going to find twiggy drives for it? Isn't that basically a lisa 2 with the old faceplate? I've seen several of the original faceplates selling for about $1000-$2000, the lisa 2, profile, imagewriter, etc aren't worth much. The software doesn't even appear to include the twiggy discs.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

there is at the same time another offer running at 9000 bucks.....

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

smiggly wrote:

The software doesn't even appear to include the twiggy discs.

It's worse than that, I think the unit doesn't even include twiggy drives. It has the original Lisa front, but not the drives.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

The text in the article states the twiggies were removed by apple and updated to 3.5 sony drive (which is present). It also says the that the original faceplate is included. So I see no deception on the part of the seller.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

You just have to see this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Plus-A2S1016-Vintage-Computer-/171118666371?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item27d777a283#ht_216wt_906

Read the description, then look at the picture of the motherboard.

I swear... People will say anything without knowing what they are looking at.

OK.

This is a question for someone with a lot more experience than me:

Without the RAM, or the 16K RAM Card/Language Card in place on an Apple II, or II Plus, can you still get into the Monitor and run programs?

Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

gsmcten wrote:

Without the RAM, or the 16K RAM Card/Language Card in place on an Apple II, or II Plus, can you still get into the Monitor and run programs?Smile

The machine will still boot, but will crash any program requiring more than 32k RAM, as the last 16k bank has a missing bit. (This of course assumes the remaining RAM chips are good, which after 33 years is somewhat questionable.)

It looks like the 16k RAM card was removed and the empty socket was not repopulated with 4116. That'll cause access to the 16k bank starting at 32k and up to fail spectacularly. I am guessing the seller either tested with 16k card installed or only observed APPLE ][ banner before declaring the machine working. The machine was shipped with 16k installed (assuming the logic board has not been replaced,) the remaining RAM was added later.

I think I've bought complete working machines for less recently (think the last six months or so.)

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Dorkbert,

The seller told me that he actually placed a Dixk II Card into Slot 6 with a Disk II attached and ran a program with both the Language Card and/or the RAM Chip removed.

Thanks for your input.
Personally...I think this guy is full of Shine-ola.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

well giving such statement at least verifies one thing:
we´re no more in Kansas, Dorothy....
speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

I could swear a II plus won't boot to anything except the built-In ROM (I.e monitor or basic) when missing a single chip. missing a chip is not the same as a dead or messed up Ram chip. Missing the whole row is different. I'll have to test this later on my II plus (my Apple II all have RamEx cards which don't use the jumper so it's easier to not mess with them). I'll post my results later.

Anyway Dorkbert, I've sold II plus for more than that recently, but they were complete with disk, language card and had rebuilt keyboards and a full checkout. People are willing to spend a little more for a machine that works correctly since not everyone is capable of troubleshooting. This guy has no real proof it works and in fact seems like there is no way it could work right with the configuration he suggested.

Cheers,
Corey

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Corey986 wrote:

I could swear a II plus won't boot to anything except the built-In ROM (I.e monitor or basic) when missing a single chip.

If you create a slave DOS 3.3 disk with only 32k installed, it will boot properly on a 48k machine with bad or missing RAM chip(s) in the last 16k. As long as the application doesn't accessing the RAM space, it will just work.
The one instance in which things will break badly is if the the first 16k has missing or bad chip(s), because ROM routine uses a lot of area in the zero page, and the primary text page reside in the first 16k. Bad or missing chip(s) in the first 16k will pretty much guarantee the system will behave badly.

Missing chip either floats the data line or has it pulled up; I have not looked in that area of the II+ schematic, but common practice (taught to me) was to pull up the bus so you get known garbage (heh) on the bus if no device responded to selection.

Bad chip... well, depends on how bad it got. Some bad chips are dead dead dead, but more commonly would have bit(s) stuck to low or high.

But it's conjecture, since bulk of the II+ software requires at least 48k, and later software requires 64k.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Corey986 wrote:

I could swear a II plus won't boot to anything except the built-In ROM (I.e monitor or basic) when missing a single chip. missing a chip is not the same as a dead or messed up Ram chip. Missing the whole row is different. I'll have to test this later on my II plus (my Apple II all have RamEx cards which don't use the jumper so it's easier to not mess with them). I'll post my results later.

Cheers,
Corey

Hello Corey,

i´ll predict your testresult´s:

With one chip missing in last row you only have 32 kB RAM working.
This might permit you to boot to DOS 3.2 od 3.3....
- BUT - the computer will crash the moment it tries to access better graphics.....
if DOS is loaded to 32kB RAM there will be less than 16 kB left for programm
and any kind of load to graphicpages ( which are known to reside above 16 kB )
will overwrite DOS with unpredictable results.....

Any attempt to ProDOS, UCSD Pascal or CPM will crash !

maybe you will be able to run simple graphics if you drop DOS and use of Diskinterface
and use instead cassetteport loading simple games like starwars....

every programm without HIMEM and LOMEM command, setting memory limitation to 16 kB
or poke to $73 / $74 setting limit to top of RAM to 16 kB will crash....

speedyG wrote:

we are no more in Kansas Dorothy.....

sincerely speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

You see...
This is the reason I asked the question in the first place.

I knew I would get knowledgable answers from knowledgable people.

I reinterate:

Quote:

Personally...I think this guy is full of Shine-ola

.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Well I tried it on my II plus...

With out the language card in and missing the "ram chip"...

Can't get any dos disk I had handy to boot. For example, I tried the Apple II Dealer Diagnostics disk and APTest. When it tries to boot I get random characters around the screen.

Sure I can press reset, get to AppleSoft. I didn't try loading anything off cassette.

So as I think I had stated in the past, just because it shows "Apple ][" on boot, doesn't mean it works... If you think this is bad you should see the "Altair" sales... "lights function" seems to be the expression that makes people think what they are selling is "working". Not even close !!! I was at least 200 hours after "lights function" on my Altair restoration before I could load basic and write "hello world"

Anyway, I knew I wasn't crazy and I had tried it before without the chip in at some point and I couldn't get too far.

Cheers,
Corey

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Hello Corey,
the result you got is not suprizing....
it seems you tried to boot disks with "Hello" program.
You can only avoid crash by booting pure DOS.
The Dealer´s Disk for example tries to load immediatly after
booting DOS the diagnostic programm and wants to display menu...
but it crashs before, because while loading the programm
it had overwritten DOS and even tried to load beyond 32 kB !
This is valid to most Disks......

The only chance to survive and boot to DOS below 32 kB will be
a Disk created with INIT command and "Hello"-program not much larger than the
following program:

10 CATALOG S6,D1
20 END

with such a disk you will boot to DOS residing from 16 kB to 32 kB
and the screen will list the disk catalog with:

DISK 254
HELLO 2
free 495

]

and at the next 5 or 6 steps you will crash....

speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

So confirmed... There is no way this guy "tested" this machine without the language card/missing ram chip doing anything more than "hello world" in applesoft. So for all we know the machine has a ton a problems as it was never really tested...

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Again to all...

Thank you.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

speedyG wrote:

but it crashs before, because while loading the programm it had overwritten DOS and even tried to load beyond 32 kB

I don't think Apple's Dealer Diagnostic for the II+ uses DOS.

Quote:

The only chance to survive and boot to DOS below 32 kB will be a Disk created with INIT command and "Hello"-program not much larger than the
following program:

DOS 3.3 eats $9600-$BFFF in a 48k machine, so it's final memory foot print is about 10k + change. A 32k slave DOS disk should load itself in $5600-$7FFF. So the secondary hi-res page is partly occupied by DOS. But other than that, everything should just work.

I am reasonably certain that the Dealer's II+ Diagnostic Disk will boot and run properly on a 32k machine as a couple of months ago I was using it to test some 4116s installed in the last 16k bank. (I've never strip a machine down to 16k and tried it before.)

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

DOS = > DISK OPERATION SYSTEM

I´d be curious about the explenation how to use a disk WITHOUT DOS ????

The use of Apple Dealers Disk is impossible without DOS ! Only solution would be using
UCSD as operation system ( Pascal ). BUT also UCSD is a Disk Operation System !
Similar is valid to CPM and to ProDOS.

Hopefully waiting for explenation....

sincerely speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

speedyG wrote:

DOS = > DISK OPERATION SYSTEM

I´d be curious about the explenation how to use a disk WITHOUT DOS ????

Of course you can. All you need to do is make sure the program is coded to manipulate the hardware directly. Part of the appeal of Apple was that unlike other platform of the time, it's disk hardware is very... "soft," affording coders a lot of flexibility in disk format and copy protection schemes.

There's no requirement a program must go through DOS to access the disk. Plenty of application do not use DOS at all (granted a lot are games with ... interesting copy protections.)

Speedy, I've skewed off topic here. If you're okay with it, we can follow up through PM.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Hello Dorkbert,
i do agree with the proposal to keep the topic of DOS and copyprotectionsystems apart,
due to the fact that that ropic is worth it´s own thread .....
it´s for too complex to be treated here within this thread...

therfor i moved it over to a new created thread:

http://www.applefritter.com/content/dos-and-copyprotection-systems

as far as i egree with the proposal to move ... i don´t agree with the statement.....
i moved reply to the other thread....
we can continue that topic there and probably other members interested in that ropic might follow us up there....

sincerely speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Well Guys and Gals,

If you go up on eBay right now, you will find several Original Apple II's, an Apple II Plus, and an Apple /// that are (supposedly) props from the just released movie "Jobs".

The problems that I am having with these items is that they do not have the following:
- No COA, or any other paperwork stating that they were actually used in the movie.
(I will cover this again in a minute.)

- None of them have shots of the Bottom Plate showing the Serial Number.

-None of them have interior shots showing (at least)the Motherboard Serial Number.

I have contacted this seller and asked about some sort of provenance for his items. Any sort of contract showing that they were actually used, or rented for use would be fine, but he has none. He instructs folks to go to a Movie Production website which contains no information.
I also sent another email today asking for more pictures (including Case and Motherboard Serial Numbers).
So far, no changes to the auction listings.

On the Plus Side, he has a pretty low starting price for the Original Apple II units.
This makes me wonder if they are actually Apple II units, or a II Plus with the lables changed. It also make me wonder if this guy knows what he is doing.

Go up and take a gander.
Tell me what you think.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Quote:

The problems that I am having with these items is that they do not have the following:
- No COA, or any other paperwork stating that they were actually used in the movie.

>>>
Q: How can u guarantee that It was used in Job's Film?
A: I work for producer Mark Hulme, who runs Five Star Feature Films. We own literally every prop from the movie and I'll be posting tons soon.
<<<

So... maybe C/LOAs are in the future.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

What am I missing here?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Apple-II-Computer-from-1977-/221290227806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3385ece85e

It's already at $102 for that!?

I saw this exact computer in person when I went to visit this guy, (I live 30 mile from this place)The speaker foam is moldy (you can see in pics) and half the IC's contacts are COVERED in freakin rust.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

In the crappy epay pictures I can see some rust, I believe.

Did the mold in the speaker foam make it all gooey and tacky-sticky?

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

if that's "very good condition", I hate to find out what "piss-poor-rusted-through" condition is.
or may be it's a "patina" thing. one of these days we might start seeing Apples on Antique Road Show... that be the day.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Hello to all AF-members,

well hopefully we won´t have to go to the carmarket to purcahse an Apple Computer....

but in fact it turns out more and more that a lot of ebayers sitting on poor hardware
try to "polish up" the worth or price of their poor equipment by using behavior of ancient horsetraders
and nowadays salesmen at used-car-facilities ( which in former days performed horsetrading and sale -
due to the fact that cars are our "nowadays horses" ..... ),

or the "modern way" of "merchandising"
- just another modern term for sales and distribution ....-

in conventional sight some might just call such behavior something like "betrayal" or "cheating"...

but like anthropoligist would state: "times change - and such does behaviour....
behavior nowadays called "normal", has been claimed in former days to be "scandulous"

( remembering for example the bikini and it´s first presentation in the 60´s )...

unfortunatly changes of time do not allways mean thing to turn out better....

just my 5 cents...
sincerely speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Transwarp and all...

First of all it's a II Plus (A2S2 Prefix).
Second of all it's a II Plus (Language Card missing).
Third of all I told this guy a week ago when it was first placed up for auction that he needed to change the Title and Description, because it is a II Plus!

This guy is thick headed and does not know what he is selling(it's obvious).

I bid on it myself, at about $50.00, just for the Motherboard, but once it went past that I quit.

There are several other II Plus units for auction right now and the prices are starting to go past $120.00 each. Personally, I refuse to pay that for a II Plus in under par condition (which some of these are).

These folks do NOT know the difference between an Original Apple II and and a II Plus. I doubt they know much of anything other than they see $$Dollar Signs$$.

That's just my best guess.

Steven Smile

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Yea it's probably for the best Steven, the motherboard might be repairable but it still has a lot of corrosion. The keyboard might be worth something to somebody though.

There are several people I ran into at the place, they don't know much about them. The computers are literally stacked. Unfortunately he would not let me buy them as a bulk sale, so I guess I'll just have to bid on them. He was asking like $75 cash per apple IIe untested.

I opened quite a few of them and found no cards worth noting yet. He got kinda antsy so I left early; I didn't check but maybe 1/4th of the computers. So who knows there might be some treasures among them. I'm pretty sure most of them came from a school, since they were all so bare.

For some bizarre reason most of the early apple IIe's were missing the "e"; it was kinda rubbed off, although the raised part was still present.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

to be fair, the guy is purportedly in the movie prop business. a lot of things used in the movies only need to look good; they need not work. notice how clean the exterior of the stuff is. maybe they all had a nice coat of paint applied recently.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Good news everyone. An untested backup diskette of Rescue Raiders is selling for only $300 (obo) right now. Well, technically you'll also receive the box and inserts with your backup diskette, so I guess it could make a nice centerpiece for your coffee table.

ebay item 161121101674

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Re: THIS is Laughable!
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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Sure I could see 18,000 for a briefcase. Just not this one. It's an apple sticker on an old crappy briefcase!!!! The sticker is the type that came with the machines.

Btw: in the car world we usually pay a fortune for "fitted" luggage, but they throw in a car for free... LOL. I know guys who paid mid 6 figures for a briefcase, but they came with a nice Lamborghini

Cheers,
Corey

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Oh my. Yes. these are definite gut busters.

You know guys, I have a whole big pile of the Apple stickers and good brief cases only cost about $50.00. Hmmm! Never Mind -- Just kidding....

WOW!

Jay

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

jwg1962 wrote:

Oh my. Yes. these are definite gut busters.

You know guys, I have a whole big pile of the Apple stickers and good brief cases only cost about $50.00. Hmmm! Never Mind -- Just kidding....

WOW!

Jay

Do it man! You could start a freaking franchise.

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

That briefcase beats all. I'm still laughing. literally it has one of those cheap 25 cent Apple stickers slapped poorly onto a cheap briefcase. The green foam looks radioactive. It could be nuclear. I thought everything from Chernobyl was sanitized?! /sarc

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

I´m still waiting for an offer of some guy who lived close to the site of Steve Jobs and who went in
that sitearea during the nighttime over there and made an plaster impression of one of Jobs shoe footprints.
I guess such a guy would calculate that piece of plaster to be valued at least for 50.000 bucks .... or is that too cheap ? LOL
speedyG

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Re: THIS is Laughable!

Just when you think you've seen about everything...

An update:

I wrote the fella with the 18k briefcase to ask where he got his price from.
He wrote back saying that "Several Serious Collectors" gave him that estimate.
I just proceded to ask him if they happened to be serious Apple II collectors.
I also asked if one of them offered at least $10k for it before he placed it up for auction.
No answer yet. Smile

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