Mono output only?

15 replies [Last post]
Tracer bullet's picture
Offline
Joined: Oct 3 2014
Posts: 30

Just got my 2gs and connected it to my commodore color monitor. I noticed the screen is only in black and white with the composite connection on the computer. Will I get color with this connection or do I have to use the rob connection to get color?is there Any way to connect this thing to a standard vga monitor ?

__________________

Later.
Doug

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Offline
Joined: Jun 15 2014
Posts: 305
Re: Mono output only?

You should verify that your monitor complies with NTSC 3.58MHz standard and also that your //GS is set to 60Hz frame rate via its setup.

Mr.Fix's picture
Offline
Joined: Mar 22 2005
Posts: 100
Re: Mono output only?

what model is the commodore monitor?

I have connected my 2gs to a commodore monitor through the rgb. I had to make my own connection but works amazing with it, and also produces color rgb. If you can take a picture of the setup you have that will narrow down alot of things.

eeun's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 1891
Re: Mono output only?

Which Commodore monitor? If I recall, the 1084 (or one of its variations) had switches on the front and back that changed the operation of the composite input to s-video luma/chroma input.

If it was set to s-video, you'd only see black and white from a composite source.

__________________

"Give a man a fire, he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
(Terry Pratchett)

Tracer bullet's picture
Offline
Joined: Oct 3 2014
Posts: 30
Re: Mono output only?

Well the monitor I'm using is model 1702. I worked prefect on my //e previously. I'm using it currently as a monitor for my cable box. I did notice on the control panel on the 2gs that when I changed the color settings the screen changed but still remained in black and White. The 2gs is set to 60 mhz.
Now is there any way to get the 2gs to work on a standard vga monitor? Has anyone managed to achieve this yet? It would be great to be able to run it through a flat screen monitor.

__________________

Later.
Doug

eeun's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 1891
Re: Mono output only?

For VGA you'd need something to act as a line doubler. The IIgs outputs 15KHz horizontal video, while VGA standard is double that. This is a factor with many 8 and 16-bit vintage machines.

This is one solution for the gs.

I've got a cheap ebay composite/s-video to VGA adapter like this for my 8-bits that works well. It's better looking with s-video, of course, but even composite does the trick and gets that big CRT off the desk. The adapters vary considerably in price, but you should be able to get one for under $20 total.

__________________

"Give a man a fire, he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."
(Terry Pratchett)

MarkO's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 10 2011
Posts: 667
Re: Mono output only?

eeun wrote:

For VGA you'd need something to act as a line doubler. The IIgs outputs 15KHz horizontal video, while VGA standard is double that. This is a factor with many 8 and 16-bit vintage machines.

This is one solution for the gs.

I bought one of these, and documented the results.

Quote:

I've got a cheap ebay composite/s-video to VGA adapter like this for my 8-bits that works well. It's better looking with s-video, of course, but even composite does the trick and gets that big CRT off the desk. The adapters vary considerably in price, but you should be able to get one for under $20 total.

I bought one of these too, and compared it to the Adapter Above...

If the .MP$ Videos won't play, download them, then play them in VLC Player or something similar.

Info on Video Conversion with the Apple ][e

Info on Video Conversion with the Apple ][gs

MarkO

Mr.Fix's picture
Offline
Joined: Mar 22 2005
Posts: 100
Re: Mono output only?

The commodore rgb monitor i have used with the 2gs is the 1084s model. I picked this up at a local recycler for peanuts then made my own rgb connection. graphics clarity and brillance in color is awesome, but weighs a ton.

I also have a rgb component adapter that i purchased from nishida radio that i use to hook up to a modern day flatscreen tv/monitor. imo, the clarity and color brillance is just shy of a true rgb monitor, but for the money and the availablity of modern flatscreens its the one i use with the 2gs and am extremely happy with it.

Tracer bullet's picture
Offline
Joined: Oct 3 2014
Posts: 30
Re: Mono output only?

MarkO wrote:
eeun wrote:

For VGA you'd need something to act as a line doubler. The IIgs outputs 15KHz horizontal video, while VGA standard is double that. This is a factor with many 8 and 16-bit vintage machines.

This is one solution for the gs.

I bought one of these, and documented the results.

Quote:

I've got a cheap ebay composite/s-video to VGA adapter like this for my 8-bits that works well. It's better looking with s-video, of course, but even composite does the trick and gets that big CRT off the desk. The adapters vary considerably in price, but you should be able to get one for under $20 total.

I bought one of these too, and compared it to the Adapter Above...

If the .MP$ Videos won't play, download them, then play them in VLC Player or something similar.

Info on Video Conversion with the Apple ][e

Info on Video Conversion with the Apple ][gs

MarkO

I do like the look of these considering the tv I have has video inputs as well as a pc vga connector. I'll be picking one of these up. Thanks guys.

__________________

Later.
Doug

amauget's picture
Offline
Joined: Jan 3 2011
Posts: 244
Re: Mono output only?

Doug,

If your tv is also equiped with a SCART connector, you can also look at this cheap and very good alternative.

__________________

Antony
Apple II forever

MarkO's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 10 2011
Posts: 667
Re: Mono output only?

amauget wrote:

Doug,

If your tv is also equiped with a SCART connector, you can also look at this cheap and very good alternative.

SCART is the one Video Standard that the US had nothing comparable to offer...

I am envious.....

MarkO

Tracer bullet's picture
Offline
Joined: Oct 3 2014
Posts: 30
Re: Mono output only?

Nope. it doesn't have one of those SCART connectors. I ordered one of the TV RCA Composite S-video AV In to VGA LCD Out Cable Converter Box Adapter for PC off ebay for $17 shipped. can't really go wrong with that I guess. I did look at the Japanese one, but like the other one better.
Thanks again.

__________________

Later.
Doug

Offline
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 794
Re: Mono output only?

I tried several methods of doing this but I get the same results each time.

I first got the iigs to Component video adapter from Koichi:

http://tulip-house.ddo.jp/DIGITAL/ANALOG_RGB_COMPONENT/english.html

THEN you can use a Gonbes GBS-8200 or GBS-8220 adapter to convert the signal to VGA. You can get them from Ebay.

You can get away from having to buy Koichi's adapter if you can figure out the pinout from the iigs to the Gonbes board. You would be connecting the wires into the Gonbes using the connector located on the white bottom left corner on the Gonbes, the one which has only 4 large pins.

The other thing you can do is to buy that aforementioned Apple iigs SCART cable on Vintageware: http://vintageware.orconhosting.net.nz/apple2/scart.html

Then connect that SCART cable directly to a Sync Strike because it has a SCART input connector and a VGA output connector: http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html

But the signal would not come out right unless you get a Gonbes and connect the output from the Sync Strike to the VGA input on the Gonbes.

The easiest solution I found is to get the iigs SCART cable and buy this specific monitor which you CAN find in the USA which DOES have SCART input. This website talks about using that monitor:

http://noboot.com/charlie/Charlie's%20Stuff.htm

MarkO's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 10 2011
Posts: 667
Re: Mono output only?

insanitor wrote:

I tried several methods of doing this but I get the same results each time.

I first got the iigs to Composite video adapter from Koichi:

http://tulip-house.ddo.jp/DIGITAL/ANALOG_RGB_COMPONENT/english.html

THEN you can use a Gonbes GBS-8200 or GBS-8220 adapter to convert the signal to VGA. You can get them from Ebay.

This looks Very Nice!! I didn't realize that he had this kind of Video Adapter..

Quote:

You can get away from having to buy Koichi's adapter if you can figure out the pinout from the iigs to the Gonbes board. You would be connecting the wires into the Gonbes using the connector located on the white bottom left corner on the Gonbes, the one which has only 4 large pins.

I believe that is the Connector I used, labeled P3. I will get it out of the Box, and Take Photos and Document my Wiring and get it posted. The RGB on the Teknika Card is slightly different than the ][gs RGB, so I have two different RGB plugs that connect to the SainSmart.

I recently aquired an Applied Engineering RAMWORKS III with a Color Link RGB Adatper.. I still haven't plugged it in, but I want to perform the Lode Runner and Double High-Res Tests again with it..

Quote:

The other thing you can do is to buy that aforementioned Apple iigs SCART cable on Vintageware: http://vintageware.orconhosting.net.nz/apple2/scart.html

Then connect that SCART cable directly to a Sync Strike because it has a SCART input connector and a VGA output connector: http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html

But the signal would not come out right unless you get a Gonbes and connect the output from the Sync Strike to the VGA input on the Gonbes.

This looks Very Nice too!!!!

Quote:

The easiest solution I found is to get the iigs SCART cable and buy this specific monitor which you CAN find in the USA which DOES have SCART input. This website talks about using that monitor:

http://noboot.com/charlie/Charlie's Stuff.htm

A SCART Video Unit available in the USA!! Very Nice too!!!! It looks like the "19" Samsung SyncMaster 940MW monitor/TV"

I guess I need to get all Three of these Units....

MarkO

Offline
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 794
Re: Mono output only?

MarkO, don't get so excited. As I said, I got the same results each time. I have not done any testing on moving artifacts using any of these solutions. If you disconnect the disk drive, the apple that moves along the screen looks the same for each setup. It is blurred on the LCD and will probably do the same for all LCD monitors, but not one with a CRT. My testing on one of my CRT monitors has an aberration on the line on the apple, but has no blurring.

You can buy an SLG3000 to recreate the scanlines on an LCD. It only works at a resolution of 640*480: http://arcadeforge.net/SLG3000:::3.html

Offline
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 794
Re: Mono output only?

Hey... Look at what I found on ebay...!

"Apple IIGS Video Adapter for the GBS-8200 / 8220 Video Converter"

"What you are considering for purchase is an adapter that is needed in order for an Apple IIGS to work with a GBS-8200 or GBS-8220 video converter board.

You will need the following in order for the Apple IIGS to function with a VGA display:
- The IIGS itself
- My DB-15 to HD-15 adapter
- A HD-15 male to HD-15 male video cable (comes with any VGA display)
- GBS-8200 or GBS-8220 video converter board
- A VGA display

The GBS-8200/8220 are carried by a number of companies, including Sainsmart, Gonbes, Sintron, etc. They are sold all the time on eBay. The video converter board is NOT included in this item.

The Apple IIGS outputs video through its analog RGB 15-pin port at a speed of 15 KHz. The problem is that typical VGA-compatible displays cannot support this video speed. The GBS-82xx video converter board will convert the 15 KHz to a speed that can be handled by the VGA display.

The next hurdle is to connect the Apple IIGS to the GBS-82xx. To do this, a DB-15 to HD-15 adapter is required. You will find many sellers offering DB-15 to HD-15 video adapters. The problem is that the video sync signal coming out of the Apple IIGS isn't mapped correctly when using these adapters, regardless of the DIP switch settings made on the adapter. This is because these adapters are designed for Apple Macintosh systems, which use a different pinout from that of the IIGS. The video sync on the Apple IIGS is pin 3. The video converter board is looking for the video sync signal at a different location. And, the adapters I mentioned do not make this correction.

So, you basically have two choices: make a permanent hardware modification to the Apple IIGS motherboard to orient the video sync signal accordingly. The other choice is to use my video adapter. I think using my adapter is the better choice!

My video adapter does two things:
- Correctly adapts the IIGS 15-pin port to a VGA-compatible HD-15 port.
- Correctly maps the video sync signal so that the video converter board will detect it, and without the need to make a permanent modification to the motherboard.

My video adapter is hand-made. I put the adapters together myself, and I test them on my IIGS ROM01 with a GBS-8220 and a flat-panel VGA display. The pinouts on my adapter is hard configured as 640 x 480, although the IIGS itself can only output 640 x 200. The adapter does not correct any video-related flaws. Again, all it does is correctly map the wiring."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131315833189