Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47

Hello.

Have an Apple Iic Plus, and recently aquired an Apple serial mouse.

Running both Apple Desktop and MousePaint, I can get the cursor to move any direction but left. Took out the ball to check for gumming and saw none. Then moved the guide inside the mouse, and rolling it either direction took the cursor only to the right.

So does that sound like an issue with the mouse, or the Apple?

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Offline
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 794
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

There are usually within mice, things that look like LED's. If any debris is blocking those LED's from looking at those finned wheels (the IR transmitter detector) then there's your answer. You will have to take the mouse completely apart to access the main board inside.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Guy who sold me the mouse said it worked fine on his machine, so I asked him to send it back.

Sadly, that means the problem lies with my Apple IIc Plus. Will have to take the machine apart.

Anyone have a schematic for an Apple IIc Plus?

gsmcten's picture
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Joined: Oct 4 2005
Posts: 2626
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

jegs,

Quote:

Guy who sold me the mouse said it worked fine on his machine

Really?

I would try another mouse first before tearing into the unit.

Steven Smile

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Steven (gsmcten)

"Apple ][.....It's ALIVE!!!!!"

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Joined: Jan 24 2005
Posts: 356
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Quote:

There are usually within mice, things that look like LED's. If any debris is blocking those LED's from looking at those finned wheels (the IR transmitter detector) then there's your answer. You will have to take the mouse completely apart to access the main board inside.

The Apple IIe/IIc mouse is a mechanical mouse... no LEDs.

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Joined: Jan 24 2005
Posts: 356
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Quote:

So does that sound like an issue with the mouse, or the Apple?

Sounds like a broken line, either in the cable, at the pin of the mouse. Do you have a joystick, and does it work fine?

Offline
Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

That's just it: Machine came with a joystick, but I couldn't use it properly with the games that came with it. Initially, thought it might be a joystick calibration issue, or perhaps a bad joystick.

But since the mouse doesn't scroll to the left, that's looking less likely.

Is there a mouse calibration program out there for the Apple II, or perhaps code in BASIC I could type into the machine?

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Has anyone ever had a problem like this before?

Again, it appears to be hardware-related, on the Apple IIc itself.

dorkbert's picture
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Joined: Apr 12 2009
Posts: 270
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

many many moons ago (think 20+ years ago, so I could be mistaken,) we see this kind of problem when the mouse is in question is for a Mac, not Apple II. Despite the similarity in appearance, the DB9 mouse went through multiple revisions, and some will not work properly with an Apple II.

that or the encoder roller and/or the mouse ball needs a good bath.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

May try the bath thing then. As to the mouse, I got it from eBay - it was advertised as an Apple IIc mouse, and it has a serial connector. My Macintosh Classic II has a mouse with a round connection. Also tried the joystick that was shipped with it, and it won't work right either.

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Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 832
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Before taking the machine apart there are some other things to try first. Use electronics cleaner (DeOxit, or anhydrous alcohol) to clean the joystick port connector on the computer (I'd do all the connectors while your at it).

If you do open the machine, the first place to look for a problem is the solder joints where the connector attaches to the motherboard, as repeated removal/attachment of a joystick could have cracked one of the solder points.

As far as the mouse partially working due to dirt, I always had to do maintenance on these things by unscrewing the bottom plate, removing the ball, and cleaning the detritus off of the internal wheels. I would gently scrape the rolling surface with the back of an X-acto blade, and pick out any lint/hair with a tweezer.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Cleaned the contacts for the mouse, and took apart the machine. It looked clean as a whistle, and could find no broken solder joints.

Took apart the mouse again, and while it was plugged into the computer, I turned the wheel that moves the curser horizontally on the screen. Whether I moved it one direction or the other, the cursor moved only to the right. Up and down was no issue. That seems strange: I've experienced trackball mice failing to move a cursor in a particular direction, but this is the first time that moving a mouse in either direction results in moving the cursor in only one direction.

Running out of ideas, so next step is to purchase one of these to confirm the issue isn't the Apple II mouse.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Update: Conducting some more searches, I found this (link):

Quote:

I have a //c mouse that doesn't work
>> on my //c, but my IIe mouse does. Both work on the IIe and Mac Plus.
>> Whether it matters or not I don't know, but if you look at the model
>> number of the mouse some start with "A2" and some with "M" --
>> presumably this would indicate Apple 2 or Macintosh. I've always
>> suspected the problem (in my case) is with the mouse port on the //c...
>> since it doubles as the game port maybe there's bug.
>
> Possibly ones with an A2 number will work but I also
> was under the distinct impression that since the IIc's
> game port doubles as a mouse port that the mouses
> were wired differently. All I know for sure is that all
> the M0100 mouses I have don't work and all the ones
> marked IIe don't work and all the ones with IIc on the
> label do work. So, IMHO, if you get one that is marked
> IIc you run a better risk of it working. I also read about
> a hack where you add a resistor or diode, can't remember
> which now to the IIc motherboard and it allows either
> one to work.

The mouse model currently connected to my Apple IIc is A2M4015, so could that be one of the Apple II-only mice that won't work with the IIc or IIc Plus? The next step is to find a mouse out there marked as IIc. My guess is that those won't be easy to find. If anyone out there has one, I'll gladly trade the mouse I have for it.

Oh, and if anyone knows of the hack mentioned above, I'm all ears. Smile

A little more searching revealed this thread, which indicates that I likely purchased the wrong mouse:

Quote:

The mouse I use on my Apple //c is
the Apple mouse model number M0100.
This works correctly with the //c
and //c+

So it looks like mine will work fine on an Apple IIe, but not my IIc Plus.

Finally, found this on Apple's archives:

Quote:

I have a question concerning the "platinum" Apple IIc and a mouse. When I'm using the mouse, the cursor starts at the top-left corner and moves straight down to the bottom-left corner of the screen. Why?

You have come across an incompatibility in mouse timing. The mouse sold for the Apple IIc works properly, and mice received from service work properly. However, mice that came from Macintosh Plus systems sometimes work and sometimes not, depending on the manufacturer.

To assure proper operation, make sure you use a mouse that was designed for use with the IIc.

So it appears that even getting a M0100 is a throw of the dice, and the only sure-fire method is to find a mouse specifically for the IIc.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Update: Got a Super Mouse drkenb.bluejay.com, but it has the very same issue as the one I've now got up for sale. At least its new and in great shape, but the sad news is that this indicates that the problem is most likely with my Apple IIc Plus.

So I'm all ears on anyone who knows what I can check/modify in my IIc Plus to get my mouse working correctly.

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Joined: Apr 24 2012
Posts: 251
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

I responded in another thread, but here it goes again:
I have a //c and a //c plus. I have also a REAL mouse //c (A2M4035) and a M0100. I tried both in the //c plus and of course the M0100 failed, while the A2M4035 worked correctly. These mice are really a pain to come by, and they get expensive. I suspect the chip on this mouse is different, if somebody knows how to read it o clone it we can use mine. Let me know.
Javster.

PD: By the way the A2M4035 looks exactly like the M0100. here is a link to my mouse: http://www.eljavo.com/en/mouse-c/

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Thanks for the response, javster. Question: Did the mice that didn't work on your IIc Plus not work at all, or did they work with glitches? I ask that, because both mice I've used will move the cursor in all directions but left.

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Joined: Apr 24 2012
Posts: 251
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

it did work, but erratically, just moved up and down, jumping to the right, never to the left. Do you want me to open the //c and take pictures of the components? Maybe it has something different.
Hope it helps.
Javster

Pd: i just checked on eBay and based on one //c plus they are selling seems like the mouse //e (A2M2070) works. If you can find one at a good price I think you'll be fine.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

For now, I'll be in "wait out" mode - keeping an eye on eBay for an actual Apple IIc mouse. I've spent too much money on bad mice recently, and I'm in danger of running short on my wife's good will for this stuff.

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Joined: May 3 2013
Posts: 47
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus

Took some pics of the motherboard, so you can find those here:






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Joined: Apr 24 2012
Posts: 251
Re: Mouse not moving cursor to left on Apple IIc Plus