Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

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k4lmp's picture
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Hey everyone, I'm new to Apple, as I picked one up locally with the green monitor w/tilt screen, duodrive, 64k/80 column card. It worked, but had problems, wouldn't pass diag. I did some poking, and found the small chip just to the left of the ram had a broken lead, and I suspect it had some bad ram chips. Re-seating didn't help. It was a MB manufactured in 1982, and when booted, showed 'Apple ]['. I found a 1984 MB on ebay, tested, passing diags, for $20, so I bought it. I changed the MB, and it works great. Now, when I power it up, it shows 'Apple ][e', instead of just 'Apple ]['. Does this mean the newer MB has the enhanced chips and processor? I used an Apple ][ plus, back in the early 80's in high school, but it has been a long time. I have connected it to a PC via a super serial II card, and used ADTPro successfully. I am just wondering if it is an 'Enhanced' ][ now.

Thanks.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

No, if it's showing "][e" on the boot up, it's not enhanced. When enhanced it'll show "//e".

To enhance one of these you need to replace four specific ROM chips, and change the CPU from a 6502 to a 65c02. These five chips are collectively known as the Enhancement Kit.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

k4lmp wrote:

Hey everyone, I'm new to Apple, as I picked one up locally with the green monitor w/tilt screen, duodrive, 64k/80 column card. It worked, but had problems, wouldn't pass diag. I did some poking, and found the small chip just to the left of the ram had a broken lead, and I suspect it had some bad ram chips. Re-seating didn't help. It was a MB manufactured in 1982, and when booted, showed 'Apple ]['. I found a 1984 MB on ebay, tested, passing diags, for $20, so I bought it. I changed the MB, and it works great. Now, when I power it up, it shows 'Apple ][e', instead of just 'Apple ]['. Does this mean the newer MB has the enhanced chips and processor? I used an Apple ][ plus, back in the early 80's in high school, but it has been a long time. I have connected it to a PC via a super serial II card, and used ADTPro successfully. I am just wondering if it is an 'Enhanced' ][ now.

Thanks.

Hello k4limp,

if you want to see the chipset configuration, you might checkout the version by checking the table at:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxChipsets.htm
i´ve started to create there a tableoverview of the correct chipsets as reference....

sincerely speedyG

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the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

k4lmp's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Thinking more about it, it may show '//e' instead of '][e'. I'll have to check that out when I get home from work to see. Thanks.

k4lmp's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

After double checking, when powered up, it does indeed show 'apple //e'. Does that mean for sure it is an enhanced model? I ordered a CFFA3000, and although it will work with an unenhanced II, I would rather have it enhanced. If it isn't, I will probably do the mod later. Thanks.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Yep, your machine has the enhanced ROMs installed. Only thing that you now need to source is the Enhanced sticker that goes around the power indicator light.

-J

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k4lmp's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

speedyG wrote:
k4lmp wrote:

Hey everyone, I'm new to Apple, as I picked one up locally with the green monitor w/tilt screen, duodrive, 64k/80 column card. It worked, but had problems, wouldn't pass diag. I did some poking, and found the small chip just to the left of the ram had a broken lead, and I suspect it had some bad ram chips. Re-seating didn't help. It was a MB manufactured in 1982, and when booted, showed 'Apple ]['. I found a 1984 MB on ebay, tested, passing diags, for $20, so I bought it. I changed the MB, and it works great. Now, when I power it up, it shows 'Apple ][e', instead of just 'Apple ]['. Does this mean the newer MB has the enhanced chips and processor? I used an Apple ][ plus, back in the early 80's in high school, but it has been a long time. I have connected it to a PC via a super serial II card, and used ADTPro successfully. I am just wondering if it is an 'Enhanced' ][ now.

Thanks.

Hello k4limp,

if you want to see the chipset configuration, you might checkout the version by checking the table at:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxChipsets.htm
i´ve started to create there a tableoverview of the correct chipsets as reference....

sincerely speedyG

Well, I looked at the table, and found a number of discrepencies. Here is what I have:

Video 342-0265A
EF 341-0303A
IOU 344-0020-A
CPU 338-6503
No Character ROM that I could find
HAL 342-170-A
If not listed, that means they matched the table for IIe Enhanced.

MotherBoard Info:
820-0087-A 1984
607-0187
I Think The S/N is 2757093

So what does this tell me?

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

I'll look up the other four chips ID's (the ROM's) and get back to you, but coincidentally I have an enhanced //e with 6503 CPU, and I've been meaning to ask here about that. I don't think the //e takes advantage of the fact that it's better than a 65c02. The 6502 is what came issued with unenhanced Apple ][ units. The 65c02 is slightly faster, has a larger instruction set, and allows for programming interrupts. I've not investigated the differences between the 65c02 and the 6503, but apparently the latter is backward compatible.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

By listed set it seems to be the US-PAL version of the enhanced IIe. I have heard about people claiming to have 6503 CPU in their computer, but in fact there was no official release of that CPU.

At least not with released Databooks of those days.... but possibly that CPU might be a so called "custom labeled version" of the 65C02. I have seen in the mid 80´s several chips that had been labeled with "phantasy names" and aiming to "copy cats" and "cloners" and disencouraging them from "copy cat production" of PCB´s ..... similar to the common practice of sanding off the labels from chips with the purpose to disable the public from identifying chips used in a circuit..... and hoping to prevent from re-engineering.....

That was also the time when Sony started to make only PCB´s with own "sony custom chips" to protect own patents from being copied in taiwan or korea..... later that habit was changed by using GALs or PALs and blasting the read-protection fuse...

you should never forget that steven jobs always suffered from a kind of paranoia and even distrusted the members within his own engineer-crews.... he even splitted tasks to prevent the one engineer to get knowledge from what another engineer did to be the only "key-holder"....

sincerely speedyG

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the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

SpeedyG, Do you think that the "6503" CPU's were a Steve Job's created fiction? I've heard several oddball stories about SJ directly and indirectly from Apple employees, but most of those have to deal with being a control freak. I suppose secrecy/paranoia would go with that...

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Are you sure you have a 6503? That was a 6502 in a 28-pin package with fewer address lines. It wouldn't fit in the Apple II's socket.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

@ David_Schmidt, I'm going to take a picture of the 6503 in the //e in question and post it here.

Also, I just read this on Wikipedia, but couldn't find a reliable source about the 6503 reference, which reaffirms what you just wrote;

A number of different versions of the basic CPU, known as the 6503 through 6507, were offered in 28-pin packages for lower cost. The various models removed signal or address pins. Far and away the most popular of these was the 6507, which was used in the Atari 2600 and in Atari disk drives. The 6504 was sometimes used in printers. MOS also released a series of similar CPUs using external clocks, which added a "1" to the name in the 3rd digit, as the 6512 through 6515. These were useful in systems where the clock support was already being provided on the motherboard by some other chip. The final addition was the "crossover" 6510, used in the Commodore 64, with additional I/O ports.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Maybe this is what you're referring to:
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/650x/index.html
"338-6503 is a custom part number for 65C02"

speedyG's picture
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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Hello together,
just to clear up the mess systematically:
With each CPU there existed a so called "family" meaning that each CPU had some "brothers" and "sisters".....
the "brothers" and "sisters" were CPU´s with similar instruction set but reduced outlines .....
the "brothers" were equipped with ROM-space to keep code and the "sisters" had EPROM-space with window to erase the code ....
similar families also existed with 8080 ( and the brother known as 8051 ) and in the 6502 family the 6509, 6510 and the 6511 were the sisters and 6504, 6505 and 6507 were the brothers.....
so engineers made samples with the "sisters" and prototype-boards till the code and function were well tested and thereafter the massproduction started with the "brothers" and final PCBs....
the differences in the family of "brothers" and "sisters" were determined by the amount of space added as ROM or EPROM
and the amount of RAM .... usually you could use the fistrule that the amount of RAM was 25% to 50% compared to the amount of ROM / EPROM ( i.e. 1024 byte RAM / 2048 byte of ROM or 4096 byte of ROM and similar group eqeal in data as EPROM
i.e. 1024 byte RAM / 2048 byte EPROM or 2048 byte of RAM / 4096 byte of EPROM ).....
so using this chips the adressinglines not used external ( and therefor not availiable at the outside of the chip ) were used internaly for counting and adressing the internal space of Memory ( either RAM or ROM / EPROM ) and usually this types of so called MCU ( Micro Computer Units ) were used in automotive or automatationprocesses like coinmachines, laundrymachines, printers or other so called "intelligent devices" similar to the use of PICs or MCUs today ( i.e. Atmel or PICxxCxxx and similars )....
so hopefully this is now finally solved as brief explenation....

and about the other theme:
a psychotherapeut might be able to explain better ... but the basic is paranoia - and "control-phobie" is the side-effect.... the loose of control is in that meaning the fear that others can sontrol your life or take your things away ( like ideas or basically food... ) - but thats just the "outside skin" of a special kind of paranoia..... the root is loosing control of your life and others enabled to control your life and you to be unable ( i.e. fearing ) that others want to control you ....

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

"Rockwell
Picture of: Rockwell 338-6503 (65C02)
1 MHz?
40-pin plastic DIP
338-6503 is a custom part number for 65C02"

I'll glance to see if it's a Rockwell issued chip. I wonder why they chose that nomenclature?

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

My Apple //e Platinum came with a Rockwell 6503 CPU.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

mutant_pie wrote:

My Apple //e Platinum came with a Rockwell 6503 CPU.

By which you mean 338-6503, which is actually a 65C02.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

david__schmidt wrote:
mutant_pie wrote:

My Apple //e Platinum came with a Rockwell 6503 CPU.

By which you mean 338-6503, which is actually a 65C02.

You might want to look at this page David: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/R6503P-datasheet.html it seems there is a 6503 CPU. There's a 15 page PDF about it or a shorter html page about it.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Neat, just to add to the numerical confusion - Rockwell produced a real 6503, which is the 28-pin variant of the 6502. I guarantee that's not what's in mutant_pie's Apple, though - because 1) it would only have 28 pins, and 2) only has 4k addressable.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

david__schmidt wrote:
mutant_pie wrote:

My Apple //e Platinum came with a Rockwell 6503 CPU.

By which you mean 338-6503, which is actually a 65C02.

Quite.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

this is the 6503 i found in one of my iie's

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4623/m4q3yaij_jpg.htm

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

6503 is a customized part number. The number. Not the chip, the number. It's actually 65C02. Big vendors can get whatever they wanted printed on the chip.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

Yes, the 6503 is practically a 3MHz Rockwell 65C02 CPU custom labeled for Apple.

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Re: Is my Apple IIe Enhanced now?

I have 3x 6503 chips in normal IIe's, not platinum. All have stickers "made in Mexico".

The computers I have don't have mousetext and the mnemonics are not all the same. Although 2 of the computers have the 65c02 sticker over the light.

The monitor listing does not recognize any of the 65c02 mnemonics in the listing, but after some tests the BRA instruction does work.

The INC and DEC accumulator does not work and neither did the PHX, PLX, PHY, and PLY instructions.

I gave up after that with the rest of the instructions.