My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

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Joined: Nov 24 2013
Posts: 200

Hi guys,

So after some negotiation I picked up this Apple II Rev 02:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221936755136?_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

He was asking a way out $3000 for it at the beginning (actually $3900 with a J2+ he was selling with it). I could not find a Rev 02 sale on Ebay recently and thus had nothing to go by, but I figured I'd offer $1100 based on parts value and a few hundred in loss if it's not recoverable (he accepted). I've never seen a Rev 02 on ebay (not that I look every day). Interestingly, this unit is only 27 serial numbers earlier than this Rev 03 that just sold:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Apple-II-Computer-s-n-16824-rev-3-motherboard-with-original-box-/111806652636?hash=item1a083220dc:g:XgsAAOSw9mFWJEIK

Issues: doesn't power up properly, has visible rust on a few chip legs, keyboard isn't working. Also Applesoft rather than Integer ROMs (I have three sets of Integer ROMs of correct vintage so I'll just swap those). He made an effort to swap ROMs to see if he could get it to post properly but ended up breaking off a chip leg (which he successfully removed from the socket). I've done battle with recalcitrant Apple II keyboards before so I'm not worried there, and like I said, if the motherboard is trash, I'm happy to keep it as a static example of a Rev 02 along with the other revisions of the board I already have, and maybe sell the rest and recoup a few hundred back that way.

What do you guys think? Interesting that it has Japanese characters silkscreened on the front of the keys. And I wonder what it tells us about when Apple changed from Rev 02 to 03, if anything. Or if it was using certain Revs overseas and others at home. Pretty sure I've seen a few Rev 03s that were earlier than this one.

If I do get it back to working, original spec, what would be a fair asking price for it? Also -- being of use in Japan at some point, does that mean it has different character ROM, or something else? Did these actually output Japanese characters?

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Offline
Joined: Nov 24 2013
Posts: 200
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Interesting -- here's a Rev 03 with date code 1979 that is 92 serial numbers earlier than my Rev 02:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Two-2-Original-1979-Computer-Revision-3-Not-2-IIE-16705-/262086561294?hash=item3d05938e0e%3Ag%3Aq6UAAOSwKIpWBLIs&nma=true&si=y6yW1GtI0OXRDaoc7CiJtiPs5UQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Is it possible Apple might have done a replacement on mine and used a returned and repaired Rev 02 board? Or more likely this Rev 03 board is a replacement?

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Joined: Dec 20 2008
Posts: 202
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Hard to say what is what... I have a Plus with a lower serial than that (I think) that is mid 79, and it's a Rev 4. I guess it's a super-early Plus. Smile

Are the II and II+ serials in the same numerical system, or separate?

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Peter Rittwage
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Joined: Nov 24 2013
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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

My understanding is II+ follow their own serial number scheme (A2S2-xxxxx vs A2S1-xxxxx) since they came out 2 years after the original 2. There was an extremely early II+ that just went on ebay for $350ish.. I think its serial number was in the 100s.

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Joined: Jun 5 2008
Posts: 380
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Keep in mind how manufacturing often works. Once a board is built, it is tested. If it doesn't pass manufacturing tests, a couple different things could happen. If there is an ample supply of "good" boards, it might moved to a "bone pile". Otherwise, an attempt to fix it, is made. Difficult to troubleshoot boards will still end up in the "bone pile". Boards in the "bone pile" are repaired when there is down time on the regular production line or when there is a shortage of boards. Having some small intermixing of revisions within a short time period in manufacturing is not only possible, but probable.

That said, it could have been swapped out somewhere along the way.

regards,
Mike Willegal

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Joined: Dec 20 2008
Posts: 202
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Seems strange that it's different serial number system, since there is very little difference in the boards. I'm actually surprised they continued to sell regular II's after the plus...

Exact same hardware, just different ROMs and case cover? Why? Maybe licensing costs for AppleSoft? But they were both on the disk anyway... Smile

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Peter Rittwage
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Joined: Nov 24 2013
Posts: 200
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

I imagine it was a marketing strategy.. similar to how last year's top iPhone is sold next to the newest, allowing the latter to command a premium for rather marginal differences. And I think the two were also distinguished by the original coming with integer basic ROMS while the other was Applesoft out of the box.

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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Obviously there was still Demand for the Apple ][, after the Apple ][+ was released.. Otherwise they wouldn't have sold them in Parallel...

IIRC, I might have read somewhere that Apple needed to Sell and Support the Apple ][ for a certain amount of time, for certain customers...

Also because of the Apple Warranty Policy, MotherBoards and Systems got swapped All the Time..

I have an Apple ][+, SN: A2S2 - 101011 with a Rev-01 MotherBoard in it... ( Pictures, if your so Interested )

MarkO

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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Mike WIllegal wrote:

Keep in mind how manufacturing often works. Once a board is built, it is tested. If it doesn't pass manufacturing tests, a couple different things could happen. If there is an ample supply of "good" boards, it might moved to a "bone pile". Otherwise, an attempt to fix it, is made. Difficult to troubleshoot boards will still end up in the "bone pile". Boards in the "bone pile" are repaired when there is down time on the regular production line or when there is a shortage of boards. Having some small intermixing of revisions within a short time period in manufacturing is not only possible, but probable.

That said, it could have been swapped out somewhere along the way.

regards,
Mike Willegal

That is Definitely how it works, where I work... Our Tech, Aaron has recovered in the last 3 months, some items that were in the Bone Yard for 5 years..

MarkO

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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

falter wrote:

My understanding is II+ follow their own serial number scheme (A2S2-xxxxx vs A2S1-xxxxx) since they came out 2 years after the original 2. There was an extremely early II+ that just went on ebay for $350ish.. I think its serial number was in the 100s.

Here are my Apple ][ Serial Number Examples on Apple Fritter.
http://www.applefritter.com/content/apple-and-apple-seial-number-stickers

Strike That!!! I have the Apple ][ UL Label and the Bell & Howell Label...

MarkO

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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

I was wrong.. that early II+ was in the 3000s:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-APPLE-II-PLUS-COMPUTER-1978-A2S2-/121790507135?hash=item1c5b47a87f%3Ag%3AUC4AAOSwo0JWIqID&nma=true&si=y6yW1GtI0OXRDaoc7CiJtiPs5UQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

That'd be really cool to have a Rev 1.. I'm guessing Rev 04 was the 'standard' they went out with early on though.

Also came across this dark green slot Rev 0 (I think?) that slipped under my nose:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Computer-VINTAGE-Model-A2S1-3358-untested-parts-repair-no-cables-/321852472216?hash=item4aefe6fb98:g:bn0AAOSwu4BV4lJb

Don't think I see the color killer circuit.

Ultimately I want to get my hands on Rev 0 some day..

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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

I see the "Rev" in the Silk Screen between Slots #3 and #4, so that would be a Rev-04 Board, IIRC...

Quote:

That'd be really cool to have a Rev 1.. I'm guessing Rev 04 was the 'standard' they went out with early on though.

From what I have learned, Rev-04 was the Shipping MotherBoard when the Apple ][+ was released... I am sure my Apple ][+ was in for Warranty Service, or someone put it together from pieces...

Quote:

Also came across this dark green slot Rev 0 (I think?) that slipped under my nose:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Computer-VINTAGE-Model-A2S1-3358-untested-parts-repair-no-cables-/321852472216?hash=item4aefe6fb98:g:bn0AAOSwu4BV4lJb

Don't think I see the color killer circuit.

With a Board Serial Number of 3651, it would be a Rev-00 board..

Quote:

Ultimately I want to get my hands on Rev 0 some day..

I would too..

But for Now, I will start by locating a Case for my Rev-01, that would be more the 7000-10000 Serial Number range.

MarkO

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Posts: 110
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

I believe the very first Apple II Plus units shipped with rev 3 boards around date code 7921. I have an early Bell & Howell Plus with a serial number in the 14XX range that has a 7921 rev 3 board in it that I believe is original.

I figure as the first batch of rev 4 boards were coming into the factory, there were still rev 3 boards in inventory...how could it be otherwise? So for some time completed systems got shipped with either rev. board out of practicality until the rev 3 were used up.

Howie

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Posts: 202
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Is there an "official" serial number registry? If not, I'd be happy to throw one together this evening similar to my C64 version (http://c64preservation.com/registry)

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Peter Rittwage
Apple II/II+ Registry - Register yours today!
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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

I've not found one. I think that'd be really useful though. A lot of uncertainty about what Apple was doing and when with the original IIs. It'd be great to have something that sort of shows a pattern.

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Joined: Dec 20 2008
Posts: 202
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Suggestions are welcome, please register as many as you want. You don't have to create an account to do it, and you are welcome to enter a fake e-mail address if you want... I don't use them for anything except questions about the entry.

The photos for badges and keyboard type were found on Google images- hopefully that doesn't upset anyone. If you can make better pictures, or other pictures I have missed, please let me know. Also, any other "hallmark" info you think would be useful to collect (I know power supplies are another one) let me know that also, and include pics. Smile

http://diskpreservation.com/dp.php?pg=apple_registry

-Pete

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Peter Rittwage
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Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

It's probably not worth adding my //e to this list, correct? There must still be millions in circulation.

Maybe I ought to just bite the bullet and procure a Europlus...

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Joined: Dec 20 2008
Posts: 202
Re: My 'new' Rev 02 Apple

Not currently tracking //e. Probably not enough interest in those mass-production years... Smile

I did add the Europlus, J-Plus, and Bell & Howell, though.

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Peter Rittwage
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