Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

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A2forever's picture
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I seem to be having difficulties creating disk images with applewin. I have loaded in a DOS 3.3 System Master disk and booted it up ( In applewin ) , then I clicked on DRIVE 2 and typed in the name of the disk image I wanted to create along with the file extension , example .DSK or .DO , once back in applewin , I typed INIT HELLO , S6 , D2 snd it would format the image correctly . But the problem now is , applewin pops up and says Cannot open file , unable to recognize file format? I even tried creating new images with CiderPress , making sure it's a 5 1/4 3.3 DOS with 254 Volume Header and applewin still does not recognize the file format....

Is there something I'm missing here ? I am using Applewin Version 1.24.0.0. on a Windows 7 OS.

Thanks..

Patrick.

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MarkO's picture
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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

A2forever wrote:

I seem to be having difficulties creating disk images with applewin. I have loaded in a DOS 3.3 System Master disk and booted it up ( In applewin ) , then I clicked on DRIVE 2 and typed in the name of the disk image I wanted to create along with the file extension , example .DSK or .DO , once back in applewin , I typed INIT HELLO , S6 , D2 snd it would format the image correctly . But the problem now is , applewin pops up and says Cannot open file , unable to recognize file format? I even tried creating new images with CiderPress , making sure it's a 5 1/4 3.3 DOS with 254 Volume Header and applewin still does not recognize the file format....

Is there something I'm missing here ? I am using Applewin Version 1.24.0.0. on a Windows 7 OS.

Thanks..

Patrick.

I don't think ApplWin will do that for you. Create a Disk from Nothing..

Outside of AppleWin, COPY your DOS Master, or any other Disk, and Open it as Disk Drive 2. Then Boot the DOS Master as Disk Drive 1, and use the INIT command above..

MarkO

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

If I open DISK 2 and load in a DOS 3.3 Disk , and boot DOS 3.3 in DISK 1 , and do a INIT HELLO , S6 ,D2 its going to destroy the floppy image I have in Disk 2 , correct?

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

A2forever wrote:

If I open DISK 2 and load in a DOS 3.3 Disk , and boot DOS 3.3 in DISK 1 , and do a INIT HELLO , S6 ,D2 its going to destroy the floppy image I have in Disk 2 , correct?

Well, yes, but... you've previously made a copy of your DOS 3.3 disk. You seem to be missing a step here somewhere, as I see you spinning in circles. How about this:

Step 1: outside of the emulator, from the Windows command line, make a copy of your DOS disk.
COPY DOS.DSK NEW.DSK
(Or do it from the Windows UI, whatever - somehow make second copy of your DOS boot disk)

Step 2: Mount both images in AppleWin
DOS.DSK -> Disk 1 (i.e. Slot 6, Drive 1)
NEW.DSK -> Disk 2 (i.e. Slot 6, Drive 2)

Step 3: Boot AppleWin

Step 4: Format Disk 2
INIT HELLO, S6, D2

Now, you have a newly "formatted" disk in slot 6, drive 2 called "NEW.DSK" that will be recognized as such wherever you use it.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Hello A2forever,
yes that is correct.

Just to clearup here some genral information to newbies:

the users MUST make difference between things that happen in Windows while running AppleWin and
things that happen within Windows
:

If you try to init at an empty drive within AppleWin it´s like
trying to write a letter in the air without paper!

At the other hand tasks happening within AppleWin
don´t care very much about things that happen outside in Windows.

So the most easieat way to create a bunch of "working-disks"
is following precisely the following instructions:

without working with AppleWin perform at Windows:
copy a diskimage with any kind of name in the working directory of where AppleWin
expects usually to load it´s Disks from. We´ll call that the "local" Directory.

Then copy that same disk another second time to another directory ( we´ll call trhat the "foreign" directory )
and rename there the Image to:
DOS3Work01.dsk and then move it back to the working local Directory.
Start AppleWin and load to drive 1 the DOS 3.3 Masterdisk
and load to Drive 2 the disk named: DOS2Work01.dsk
and then boot within AppleWin.
Then you may init the DOS3work01.dsk and give it while performing the init command the
Volumename Work01. After performing the init copy with Copy II plus or similar program
in file copy mode the files you generaly want to have on every working disk like
a hello program with startup routine ....
after this has been completed, leave AppleWin and move that disk again to the other foreign directory.
the next steps should be performed as often as the amount of disks are disired to create:
rename the disk to
DOS3work02.dsk
and copy that image to the usual local working directory
rename the disk in the foreign ( other outside ) directory to
DOS3work03.dsk and copy that image to the working local directory.
repeat this precedures again and again by each time renaming the disk
to the next higher number for volumename making sure that this name is
not allready given to a disk tzhat is allready present in the working local directory
.
By reapeating you might afterwards have for example in the working local directory
an amount of Diskimages named from DOS3work01.dsk till up to DOS3work10.dsk....
all with same startupfiles on them.

Then, if you like to make it perfect, you might again startup AppleWin and
start there Copy II plus or similar program
and change the volumenames of
the disks to match the names given previously while copying them at Windows
.
So finally you will have a bunch of 10 working disks for own use.

Similar prcedure may be performed with ProDOS disk or UCSD Pascal Disks.
Again copy one disk at Windows to a ( foreign / outside ) directory.
rename the image and copy it back to working local directory.
Then start again AppleWin and start Copy II Plus or similar program.
Load the renamed disk from foreign directory to drive 2 and ProDOS Master Disk
or Disk with Copy II Plus in Drive 1 and boot Within AppleWin.

Then "same procedure as every year".... copying the disired bunch of initial files to the disk
and again leaving AppleWin returning to Windows.....

Move the diskimage created to the "foreign directory" and
start by renaming each time the file a copy back from foreign directory to working local directory again
incrementing the filenames by each copy-performance.
Then after generating by this way a bunch of copied
diskimages you might again start AppleWin and Copy II Plus to
give within Copy II Plus the diskimages each time one is loaded to Drive 2
a new Volume name matching the name given previously at Windows
.....
and violá again a bunch of "working-disks" with titles
from ProDOSwork01.dsk up to ProDOSwork10.dsk will be availiable in the working directory.

Just to remark:
The names given while renaming the disks at Windows
are of course
NOT changing the volume name within the AppleWin emulation !

That´s the reason the volumes should afterwards be again renamed
with a copy program within the AppleWin Emulation. This will ensure
that the names givan at Windows will afterwards also match
the name givan with the copypprogram.

And similar is also valid within the UCSD system and at CPM....
like the old lady tell´s in "dinner for one" :
"James... it´s the same procedure as every year..."

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Create disks with Apple Commander - http://applecommander.sourceforge.net/
Or perhaps CiderPress - http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/

But of course all the prior suggestions work too.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Keatah wrote:

Create disks with Apple Commander - http://applecommander.sourceforge.net/

I can't get Apple Commander to work on my system at all.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:

I can't get Apple Commander to work on my system at all.

It can be tricky - it requires Java, and the GUI version (which is many years old now) also requires a graphics library that has fallen out of fashion. The command line is up to date and works fine (as long as you have java available). ADTPro even has a batch/shell script to invoke it since it's integrated.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

What you have just told me is "there are fish in the sea and bait exists for that purpose".

But no instructions on how to find them (GUI version and the graphics library that has fallen out of fashion)

In other words, I cannot detect anything from your response to me that can get me any fish, alive or dead.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:

In other words, I cannot detect anything from your response to me that can get me any fish, alive or dead.

Reminds me of a joke:

Quote:

A helicopter was flying around above Seattle when an electrical malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's electronic navigation and communications equipment. Due to the clouds and haze, the pilot could not determine the helicopter's position and course to fly to the airport. The pilot saw a tall building, flew toward it, circled, drew a handwritten sign, and held it in the helicopter's window. The pilot's sign said "WHERE AM I?" in large letters. People in the tall building quickly responded to the aircraft, drew a large sign, and held it in a building window. Their sign read "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER." The pilot smiled, waved, looked at his map, determined the course to steer to SEATAC airport, and landed safely. After they were on the ground, the co-pilot asked the pilot how the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their position. The pilot responded "I knew that had to be the Microsoft building because they gave me a technically correct, but completely useless answer."

I'm with ya. I didn't intend to co-opt the thread to be a tutorial on Java. Some folks are just allergic to it - and don't even want to try. I'm not saying that's you, but I have come up against that attitude before.

If you want to try graphical AppleCommander, let me know your platform and whether or not 'java -version' does anything when you type it on your command line and let's go from there. If you want to try command line AppleCommander, and you already have ADTPro - type 'ac.bat' or 'sh ac.sh' in ADTPro's directory depending on your platform. If you don't want to try - no harm, no foul.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Ahh, I have heard that joke before. Funny.
Well, here is what happened from the command line statement you asked me to try:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\insane>java -version
'java' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\Users\insane>

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:

Ahh, I have heard that joke before. Funny.
Well, here is what happened from the command line statement you asked me to try:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\insane>java -version
'java' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

C:\Users\insane>

You have Windows 7, Service Pack 1...

And No Java Installed ( or at least not on the PATH )

Download and Install, Windows Offline Java Install.

MarkO

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

MarkO wrote:

You have Windows 7, Service Pack 1...

And No Java Installed ( or at least not on the PATH )

Download and Install, Windows Offline Java Install.

MarkO

When I run that file I get this error message:

"Java Setup

This software has already been installed on your
computer. Would you like to reinstall it?

Yes No"

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:
MarkO wrote:

You have Windows 7, Service Pack 1...

And No Java Installed ( or at least not on the PATH )

Download and Install, Windows Offline Java Install.

MarkO

When I run that file I get this error message:

"Java Setup

This software has already been installed on your
computer. Would you like to reinstall it?

Yes No"

That would probably be a good idea...

Using the GNUWin32 utility "which", my Java is in "C:\Windows\system32\java.exe" on Windows 7.

Either your Java is not in "C:\Windows\system32\", or your system has some Path Issue...

Re-Installing it should fix that....

MarkO

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Everything is fine now in regards to creating disk images in applewin... I first selected to run at authentic apple II speed , booted up a DOS 3.3 System Master , once loaded I clicked on Drive 2 and typed in the name of the file I wish to create ( WITH OUT ) any extension , seems windows with applewin already set this as .DSK by default Shock) , I type NEW , INIT HELLO S6,D2 , once this is done , I click on the swap drive icon to switch from Drive 2 to Drive 1 , I reboot applewin and it works , and not only that I can Drag and Drop the image I just created into Applewin and it works like a champ...

Thanks again..

Patrick.

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A2forever's picture
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Posts: 226
Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Everything is fine now in regards to creating disk images in applewin... I first selected to run at authentic apple II speed , booted up a DOS 3.3 System Master , once loaded I clicked on Drive 2 and typed in the name of the file I wish to create ( WITH OUT ) any extension , seems windows with applewin already set this as .DSK by default Shock) , I type NEW , INIT HELLO S6,D2 , once this is done , I click on the swap drive icon to switch from Drive 2 to Drive 1 , I reboot applewin and it works , and not only that I can Drag and Drop the image I just created into Applewin and it works like a champ...

Thanks again..

Patrick.

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Long Live The Apple ][

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Posts: 792
Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

MarkO wrote:
insanitor wrote:
MarkO wrote:

You have Windows 7, Service Pack 1...

And No Java Installed ( or at least not on the PATH )

Download and Install, Windows Offline Java Install.

MarkO

When I run that file I get this error message:

"Java Setup

This software has already been installed on your
computer. Would you like to reinstall it?

Yes No"

That would probably be a good idea...

Using the GNUWin32 utility "which", my Java is in "C:\Windows\system32\java.exe" on Windows 7.

Either your Java is not in "C:\Windows\system32\", or your system has some Path Issue...

Re-Installing it should fix that....

MarkO

Reinstalling did nothing but fixing path did.

Now what?

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

david__schmidt wrote:

If you want to try graphical AppleCommander, let me know your platform and whether or not 'java -version' does anything when you type it on your command line and let's go from there. If you want to try command line AppleCommander, and you already have ADTPro - type 'ac.bat' or 'sh ac.sh' in ADTPro's directory depending on your platform. If you don't want to try - no harm, no foul.

I have Windows 7 64 bit installed.

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\insane>java -version
java version "1.7.0_60"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_60-b19)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 24.60-b09, mixed mode, sharing)

C:\Users\insane>

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:

<< SNIP >>

Reinstalling did nothing but fixing path did.

Now what?

One wonders why the Path was broken in the First Place....

Download the latest stable release of Apple Commander.

Then you need SWT, the latest Windows Version link didn't work, but the Historic Version from 6 February 2013 did. Scroll Down to "Older Releases".

I downloaded v4.2.2, for both Win32 and AMD64, but only Unzipped the Win32 version in the directory with the AppleCommander-1.3.5.jar file:

[C:\]cd \APPS\Win32\AppleCommander

[C:\APPS\Win32\AppleCommander]dir

Volume in drive C is WIN7 Serial number is E24D:B160
Directory of C:\APPS\Win32\AppleCommander\*

6/11/2014 23:26 .
6/11/2014 23:26 ..
6/11/2014 23:12 156,961 AppleCommander-1.3.5-ac.jar
6/11/2014 23:05 420,406 AppleCommander-1.3.5.jar
6/11/2014 23:16 6,662,491 swt-4.2.2-win32-win32-x86.zip
6/11/2014 23:16 6,637,449 swt-4.2.2-win32-win32-x86_64.zip
13,877,307 bytes in 4 files and 3 dirs 13,885,440 bytes allocated
11,148,959,744 bytes free

[C:\APPS\Win32\AppleCommander]unzip swt-4.2.2-win32-win32-x86.zip
Archive: swt-4.2.2-win32-win32-x86.zip
creating: about_files/
inflating: .classpath
inflating: .project
inflating: about.html
inflating: about_files/IJG_README
inflating: about_files/mpl-v11.txt
inflating: src.zip
inflating: swt-debug.jar
inflating: swt.jar

[C:\APPS\Win32\AppleCommander]java -jar AppleCommander-1.3.5.jar

http://www.applefritter.com/files/images/Apple_Commander-001.png

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Well, thank you for helping me getting this conundrum solved.

Now the task ahead of me is to figure out how useful is this program is when it concerns Apple II stuff.

What I can do with this program that can help me with my Apple iie and iigs computers.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

insanitor wrote:

Well, thank you for helping me getting this conundrum solved.

Now the task ahead of me is to figure out how useful is this program is when it concerns Apple II stuff.

What I can do with this program that can help me with my Apple iie and iigs computers.

Not a Problem...

I have had a basic Java class (CS-161) at the Local Community College, and still my understanding is limited on how it all works..

I have not used the Apple Command program, but use the CiderPress program regularly to extract Disk Images that are compressed with Shrink-It or other Apple specific compression.. For Zip Files I use Info-Zip and for GZip and BZip2 ( most always TARed first ) I use the GNUWin Utilities.

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Re: Problem creating .DSK images with Applewin

Well, I am very familiar with Ciderpress. But you wanted to know what messed up my path in the first place and that honor belongs to universal extractor, which I installed on my system along with WinRAR, the program I use for everything else.