Proterm client for windows?

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skipper1947's picture
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This might be a dumb question, but I was wondering if there is a Proterm emulator for Windows? I guess it would actually be a telnet client that emulates Proterm display. Does that make sense? One would use it to connect via telnet to an Apple board and use Proterm screen control for display.

I feel compelled to continue explaining.. Smile My Apple IIe BBS contains areas that support both ANSI and Proterm. I can test the ANSI support all I want by connecting to the board with telnet, but I have not way of testing Proterm support.'

Actually, I don't know if anybody actually uses proterm anymore anyway.

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6502enhanced's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hi, I use ProTerm on my IIe's ... shouldn't AppleWin be able to use ProTerm with the serial port ... (I would try to send a DiskImage of ProTerm via ADT to the PC and try it there with AppleWin).

skipper1947's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thanks for the reply 6502enhanced, I hadn't thought of that. I see I can set the serial port in AppleWin to TCP which is promising. I have never actually used ProTerm, I will have to see if it can connect to a telnet address instead of a phone number.

Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

6502enhanced wrote:

Hi, I use ProTerm on my IIe's ... shouldn't AppleWin be able to use ProTerm with the serial port ... (I would try to send a DiskImage of ProTerm via ADT to the PC and try it there with AppleWin).

Ok, I booted up ProTerm in AppleWin, but near as I can tell it only connects via phone. I can't see any option for telnet. I might be overlooking something or perhaps have an old version? How do you connect with your ProTerm?

PS: My Apple IIe does not have a modem, it communicates via Rasberry Pi using telnet.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Maybe com0com's TCP port redirector will work for you? It's freeware. http://com0com.sourceforge.net/

Then there are paid solutions..

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hi Skip,

I see ... I use ProTerm with a modem and an old acoustic coupler ... meant just how you can use ProTerm on a PC

skipper1947's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thanks guys. I will check out this com0com.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Back in the day, there were two different software that PC users used to use all the time just as the Apple ii people used ProTERM.

They were Procomm and Telix.

skipper1947's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Keatah wrote:

Maybe com0com's TCP port redirector will work for you? It's freeware. http://com0com.sourceforge.net/

Then there are paid solutions..

Hi Keatah, you mentioned "paid solutions". I would gladly pay for a solution that allows me to use ProTerm from within Applewin and telnet to my Apple IIe BBS. I have not found any by googling. I was hoping you might know one? (I did not get very far with com0com)

Thanks,
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hello Skipper1947,

maybe you might solve the issue with ZOC for Windows:
http://www.emtec.com/download.html

or you might look for tools at:
https://sourceforge.net/directory/terminals/telnet/os:windows/
take a look at Daves Telnet....
or Pacman X....
with several tools you may create a direct connection under Windows via serial cable PC<>SSC at Apple

sincerely
speedyG

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skipper1947's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thanks SpeedyG. I checked those links. Near as I can see, the emulators did not do ProTerm (unless I missed it).

I should explain what I would like to do.

I wrote a first person front-end for a game on my BBS which uses ANSI cursor control codes (to 'draw' a room). I would like to do the same thing using ProTerm's cursor control codes. I ignore the unlikely event, that somebody else would actually connect using ProTerm- I do this mostly because I enjoy it.

Converting to ProTerm would be straightforward (losing the ANSI colors and graphic symbols), but unless I can "dial" my Apple board using ProTerm, I have no way to test it.

I hope this makes sense. Smile

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hello skipper1947,

well at the past 2 years i only did few programming - but i have quite a period of more than a decade in past....

so lets get to the points:

as far as proterm uses several codes as "special codes" within Proterm that is only relevant at the Apple II
because the software only at the Apple II will cause the machine to perform "special graphic action"....

the communication....
between Apple II or PC it's regardless if it is performed by modem or serial cable.
It's only difference in used media and hardware ... but it's still in both cases a stream of bytes in serial order...
The only point in that communication special are the so called "control codes" for handshake and control of the modem or
program....

the only relevant point for communication is the correct setting: No. of Bits, Parity, Stop Bits, Baudrate.

So there is at basic a stream of ASCII codes for ASCII text and there are control codes used by either software or hardware and that can be controlled within the software in the setup by defining which contrrol codes cause which action - either as control of hardware ( like hangup, dial or reset etc. ) or as control by the program ( like clear screen, clear buffer etc.)...

so of course if you expect control codes that cause graphic or screen action at the Apple you must define same action at the PC side similar in the program at that side....

otherwise you will only have a plain text communication with ASCII.... and might be disappointed.... specially because action at PC is far different than at the Apple...

but if you have a kind of "emulation" of graphic by use of ASCII drawing repeating the lines in a window
defined in the software it might work - if definitions at both sides are same....

but under regular conditions that would require to have access to the source code ( to ensure definitions of the pseudo window i.e. ).

The problem with emulation in this task:
every stage ( unit, hardware, program, transportmedia ) adds up used control codes used by the stage....
the less stages / steps / units ... - the less used / wasted control codes....
reducing the transport from use of emulation and modem reduces control codes blocked by that devices / stages....
that leaves more unused control codes to define for the adaption....

i hope that i spotted the important points to you in this short explenation....

sincerely
speedyG

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hi Skip,

in old days I used PC DOS and Procomm and/or Telix...

Maybe this is something you like to give it a try.

http://minuszerodegrees.net/software/software.htm

But remember, these progs running under DOS, if you plan to use Windows you can use a tool named DOSBox

http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1

to run them under a DOS simulated environment

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

When I test my bbs software I set up 2 emulators on the same PC.

I was also surprised Eltima Software didn't have a solution that'd work.

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skipper1947's picture
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate it.

Keatah, I am intrigued. If I understand correctly, you have your Apple BBS running in one emulator, then run ProTerm in a separate instance of the same emulator? Like 2 copies of AppleWin?

I can't get too copies of Applewin to run at the same time. What settings do you have to make to accomplish this, if you don't mind? Also, how do you get ProTerm to think it is dialing out when actually it is communicating with the other instance of Applewin?

Sorry to be ignorant. Smile
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

sounds like Keatah is using vmware.
That permits windows to run in 2 different tasks in 2 windows....

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

I'm just clicking on the Applewin.exe file twice. Then I get two windows. Each a separate emulated computer.

Exactly what happens when you do that?

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

skipper1947 wrote:

Also, how do you get ProTerm to think it is dialing out when actually it is communicating with the other instance of Applewin?

Sorry to be ignorant. Smile
Skip

I configured proterm to use a SuperSerialCard, which Applewin supports. The two instances communicate that way.

Be aware you don't actually "dial out" over the simulated serial ports. You would need a modem simulator to do that.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thanks for the reply Keatah. When I do it, the first instance locks the disk images open, and the second instance is unable to open them. Perhaps it is a permission issue of some sort? I will have to sleep on that question. The fact that you can open 2 instances is valuable information. Smile

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

tokabln wrote:

Hi Skip,

in old days I used PC DOS and Procomm and/or Telix...

Maybe this is something you like to give it a try.

http://minuszerodegrees.net/software/software.htm

But remember, these progs running under DOS, if you plan to use Windows you can use a tool named DOSBox

http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1

to run them under a DOS simulated environment

insanitor wrote:

Back in the day, there were two different software that PC users used to use all the time just as the Apple ii people used ProTERM.

They were Procomm and Telix.

Procomm and Telix here, Procomm and Telix there, Procomm and Telix everywhere.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

It makes sense to lock the images to a specific instance, because of the possibility of writing and coherence. Just like how 2 computers don't share a single floppy drive.

So, you make two copies of the disk image you want to use. Each emulator instance has its own disk then.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Applewin has a tcp feature, don't know how it works, never used it.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

OK; now I feel dumb (or just old), I made separate copies of the disk images and now I can run two instances of Applewin. Duh.. Thanks. Smile

I did look at the TCP option, but when I click the Ethernet Settings button (presumably necessary for TCP), I get this popup box:

"TFE support is not available on your system, there is some important part missing. Pleast have a look at the VICE knowledge base support page http://vicekb.trikaliotis.net/13-005 for possible reasons and to activate networking with VICE."

http://vicekb.trikaliotis.net/13-005 is a dead link. I next tried googling "vice", there is some discussion about it but it is virtually all for Commodore computers. There is something called "winvice", but apparently it is an emulator for the commodore computer according to https://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/WinVICE

At least I have two instances of Applewin running now. If I make any further progress on communicating between the two, I will let you know.

Thanks again, for the help. Smile
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

I know I mentioned it before.. but what was the issue with com0com?

Using waybackmachine you can find the old VICE kb article. I don't use TCP/IP through applewin so I cannot comment on all the details and how to make it work.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://vicekb.trikaliotis.net/13-005

other info:
http://www.tcpdump.org/
https://www.winpcap.org/

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Thank Keatah. When I try your link to web.archive.org, I get "Oops, something went wrong. Please try again." (several times). I think I must be jinxed or something.

As for com0com, I am afraid I chickened out when my computer popped up a scary sounding warning about unsigned drivers, do did not install it.

All the Applewin help files says about it's TCP option is "The TCP interface to the Apple SSC can be used by the Apple // Game Server. For details see the notes that comes with AGS:"

While for [Ethernet settings], it says "Ethernet Settings...: This allows to choose which network interface card (NIC) you want to use with the Uthernet card." I am puzzled by the mention of the Uthernet card since the emulator is running in Windows?

Muddling through, as usual..
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Re: Proterm client for windows?

skipper1947 wrote:

Thank Keatah. When I try your link to web.archive.org, I get "Oops, something went wrong. Please try again." (several times). I think I must be jinxed or something.

I get:

Scheduled Maintenance

The Internet Archive's sites are offline for scheduled maintenance and upgrades.

Please check our twitter feed @internetarchive for updates.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Interesting. I tried it just now, and got the document (note: the intuitive method of just clicking on the link highlighted at the top of the page results in a "URL not found", you need to click on the latest date displayed under the URL.)

Anyway, it appears I need to install something called "WINCAP", however it also says "From this, it follows that it is a real security flaw using WinPCAP in a network." um...

Then, clicking on the WINCAP website link, gets you to someplace, I am not sure where. It is this link: http://winpcap.polito.it/ It is in Italy, and some sort of "research group" I don't see any apparent reference to the WINCAP program mentioned above.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hello skipper1947,

following the correct path you would end up here:
http://www.winpcap.org/

speedyG

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Hey! I got it to work! I found a version of com0com that had signed drivers so I didn't have to worry about scary security messages.

For the first time ever, I am able to see what my BBS looks like in ProTerm! Woo-Hoo.
And I see I have some cleanup of miscellaneous ANSI code leaking through..

Also, this opens the door to enhancing my first person front-end for the Land of Spur game so it supports both ANSI and ProTerm special.

It is nice to have more excuses, er.. "reasons" for programming on my board. Smile

Thanks CWJ_WILKO for your helpful tips.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

What was the final solution?

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

I ran com0com to install 2 virtual ports (com0com feeds one virtual port to the other). I then ran TCPser for Windows with this command line:

tcpser.exe -d /dev/ttyS3 -s 4800 -l5

The /dev/ttyS3 actually monitors virtual port 4, it has to be running before I launch AppleWin.

The AppleWin help file says this about it's com port:
Serial Port:
This option will remap the emulated Apple's serial port to your PC's serial port (or TCP port 1977). The Apple Super Serial Card (SSC) is emulated in slot-2.

I set the AppleWin port to monitor virtual port 2 (the other com0com virtual port), and told ProTerm to use card slot #2 (in AppleWin) and that it is a Super Serial Card.
I also told ProTerm that I was using a Hayes modem Null Modem Driver connected to the SSC (TCPser emulates a Hayes modem).

The final bit was setting up the ProTerm configuration card for my BBS. I had to enter "ATDTDura-bbs.net:6359" in the phone number field. I also discovered I had to specify ProTerm Special in the emulate field if I wanted ProTerm graphics detected on my BBS (I never used ProTerm before)

I hope I didn't forget anything. Smile
Skip

Correction: I selected "NULL MODEM DRIVER" in ProTerm, and NOT "Hayes modem" (my memory was faulty)
Also, to be clear, the dial command starts with "ATDT" followed by my BBS address "dura-bbs.net:6359"

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Which version of com0com are you using... can you share the link, please?

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Opps, sorry. I am afraid I was sloppy and did not note the link. I think I googled "com0com" or "com0com signed".

If this helps, the package contained setupc.exe and setupg.ext files both dated 1/26/2011, 3 com0com.* files dated 1/24/2011, a readme.txt (7/31/2009) and setup.dll (12/14/2009)

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Okay, thanks.

It seems that the signed version is available for x64 machines only... running Win 8 or greater.
As I will use Win 7 I might be able to use the unsigned com0com 3.0.0.0 i386 Version.
Will see

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Good luck, let me know how you make out. I have tried to use ProTerm's full screen editor while posting (on my GBBS Pro board), but either I don't know what I am doing (duh..) or AppleWin doesn't quite emulate ProTerm's editor properly.

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Can I get a copy of Land of Spur? I had a head crash on a floppy that damaged the disk, or, rather, the disk was old and the material flaked off. Can you help out at all?

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

I am glad to help. The current version(s) on my BBS have been much modified and would take some code and data changes to work on another BBS (if you are interested in running it).

Here is the link to the BBS Documentary site which has a copy from years ago that is hopefully more generic, there are a couple other GBBS Pro games there also:
http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/APPLE/II/GBBSPRO/

Let me know if that is not what you were interested in, I could extract mine out. If so, let me know if you want a .zip or .shk file. Also there is the standard command line version as well as a 'first person' version that is pretty much finished (though not play tested much by actual users).

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

That will do fine, thanks!

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Great. Um, you mean the BBS Documentary link? Smile

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Re: Proterm client for windows?

Yup.

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