Question about ProDOS 2.0

10 replies [Last post]
Offline
Joined: Feb 17 2013
Posts: 149

OK, so I've got ADTPro (marvelous program!) working and am happily transferring stuff from my Hackintosh to my //e.

I saw that one of the operating systems available on ftp.apple.asimov.net is ProDOS 2.0, so I created a floppy from the "ProDOS_2_0_3.dsk" and booted from it.

Well, it is ProDOS, but that's all-- just the base OS, without the utility program ("Startup") that comes with earlier ProDOS versions.

Also, I noticed many versions of ProDOS as .SHK files. I found a Mac program that will decompress them, but they're not disk images; merely bare system files.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there a ProDOS 2.0 version of the utility software that you normally see on ProDOS 1 disks?

2. When an SHK file decompresses into simply PRODOS, can I simply copy this to an existing disk to replace the version of ProDOS already there?

3. Which Apple // OS do you guys actually use day to day? DOS 3.3 or some version of ProDOS?

Off to figure out how to actually compile a program under UCSD Pascal, when the timing of the disk swaps isn't obvious...

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Offline
Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 832
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

RE #1, yes there was a system utilities disk for ProDOS8 v2.0.3
RE #2, I use both ProDOS and DOS 3.3. ProDOS is more UNIX like and so it's great for tracking the dates of file creation, DOS 3.3 had some better HELLO cataloging programs which was great for games. Also with ProDOS you can use larger disks sizes like the CFFA card and external hard drives.

By the way for date and time stamping files created in ProDOS I recommend that you get the No-Slot clock chip.

Offline
Joined: Apr 11 2006
Posts: 1013
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

dramsey wrote:

1. Is there a ProDOS 2.0 version of the utility software that you normally see on ProDOS 1 disks?

Take a look at images/masters/prodos/prodos_master_fixed.dsk - that has the utility program on it. BRUN SYSUTIL.SYSTEM from there.
(edit) I see there is also a utilities 2.1.1 disk in the file "Apple II System Utilities v2.1.1.zip" - unzip and use APPLE.SYS.UTILS.DSK which is actually a ProDOS-order disk (it confused Virtual II until I renamed it to .po). Underlying ProDOS version is 1.1.1.

dramsey wrote:

2. When an SHK file decompresses into simply PRODOS, can I simply copy this to an existing disk to replace the version of ProDOS already there?

Yes. That's what those collections are - the PRODOS and BASIC.SYSTEM program pair defines a release of ProDOS (8-bit).

dramsey wrote:

3. Which Apple // OS do you guys actually use day to day? DOS 3.3 or some version of ProDOS?

ProDOS, mostly because that's what is easy to use with the CFFA. I appreciate the storage capacity and all, but I still like the upper-case simplicity of plain old DOS.

dramsey wrote:

Off to figure out how to actually compile a program under UCSD Pascal, when the timing of the disk swaps isn't obvious...

I mostly use that for its assembler to build Apple /// device drivers... I haven't actually used Pascal for Pascal's sake since the 80's.

resman's picture
Offline
Joined: Feb 9 2006
Posts: 214
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

dramsey wrote:

OK, so I've got ADTPro (marvelous program!) working and am happily transferring stuff from my Hackintosh to my //e.

I saw that one of the operating systems available on ftp.apple.asimov.net is ProDOS 2.0, so I created a floppy from the "ProDOS_2_0_3.dsk" and booted from it.

Well, it is ProDOS, but that's all-- just the base OS, without the utility program ("Startup") that comes with earlier ProDOS versions.

Also, I noticed many versions of ProDOS as .SHK files. I found a Mac program that will decompress them, but they're not disk images; merely bare system files.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there a ProDOS 2.0 version of the utility software that you normally see on ProDOS 1 disks?

2. When an SHK file decompresses into simply PRODOS, can I simply copy this to an existing disk to replace the version of ProDOS already there?

3. Which Apple // OS do you guys actually use day to day? DOS 3.3 or some version of ProDOS?

Off to figure out how to actually compile a program under UCSD Pascal, when the timing of the disk swaps isn't obvious...

One thing to note is that Prodos 2.0 only works with the 65C02. The last version of Prodos to work with both the 6502 and 65C02 is Prodos 1.9. I mention that because I have a sneaking suspicion you will be acquiring more machines for your non-collection and may want to share bootable images between them.

Also, it is possible to use Pascal 1.2 or 1.3 with the CFFA (with many constraints) so you don't have to swap all those floppies around. However, as Pascal 1.3 is theoretically still available for sale, you cannot download an image. You can find version 1.1 on the web, but is floppy only. If you do get serious about Pascal, it would be a consideration.

Dave...

Offline
Joined: Apr 11 2006
Posts: 1013
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

resman wrote:

One thing to note is that Prodos 2.0 only works with the 65C02. The last version of Prodos to work with both the 6502 and 65C02 is Prodos 1.9. I mention that because I have a sneaking suspicion you will be acquiring more machines for your non-collection and may want to share bootable images between them.

That's a good point. The version of ProDOS that Apple still hosts on their FTP site is actually 1.9. Unfortunately, it's in a SEA wrapper that takes a classic Mac to unpack. Fortunately, it is on Asimov as Apple II System Utilities v3.2 (ProDOS8 v1.9 1990).dsk.

Offline
Joined: May 27 2009
Posts: 943
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

I currently use:
ProDos 8 v2.0.3 system disk 4.0.dsk
It dated May 6 of 1993.

It has System Disk 4.0 and System Utilities 3.1 dated Feb 1988.
Also on it is FastCopy 1.0.1 dated March of 1992.

I believe this to be the latest ProDos for the 8-bit //e and //c.

I use Dos 3.3 for gaming, BBS'ing, and general experimenting around. ProDos if I do any word processing or AppleWorks related things. Of the Dos 3.3 variants I like David-DOS, Pronto-DOS, Diversi-DOS equally well.

My most favorite of the Dos 3.3 variants is Hyper-Dos, the one with fast read and track/sector display in the bottom corner.

I have my Sider 10Meggers split up 75% Dos, and 25% ProDos.

__________________

On a clear disk you can seek forever..

Offline
Joined: Feb 17 2013
Posts: 149
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

resman wrote:

One thing to note is that Prodos 2.0 only works with the 65C02. The last version of Prodos to work with both the 6502 and 65C02 is Prodos 1.9. I mention that because I have a sneaking suspicion you will be acquiring more machines for your non-collection and may want to share bootable images between them.

Well, I have two machines now: the rather nice //e non-enhanced I bought from Dr. Ken (came with the Transwarp card!), and the horribly ratty //e Platinum full of rodent hair and dead key switches. However, after cleaning it and replacing a few dead key switches, I've kinda bonded with it and am using that one now.

The other //e is non-enhanced but a forum member here sold me an enhancement kit which should arrive soon. Really, two completely functional enhanced //es is all anyone needs. I don't plan to get any more!

resman wrote:

Also, it is possible to use Pascal 1.2 or 1.3 with the CFFA (with many constraints) so you don't have to swap all those floppies around. However, as Pascal 1.3 is theoretically still available for sale, you cannot download an image. You can find version 1.1 on the web, but is floppy only. If you do get serious about Pascal, it would be a consideration.

I dunno about "serious", but where could you buy or otherwise obtain a 1.3 version?

MarkO's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 10 2011
Posts: 667
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

dramsey wrote:

<< SNIP >>

I dunno about "serious", but where could you buy or otherwise obtain a 1.3 version?

Apple Pascal version 1.3 is still available for sale at the Syndicomm store.

From: http://apple2info.net/index.php?title=Apple_II_Pascal

Offline
Joined: Feb 17 2013
Posts: 149
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

david__schmidt wrote:
dramsey wrote:

1. Is there a ProDOS 2.0 version of the utility software that you normally see on ProDOS 1 disks?

Take a look at images/masters/prodos/prodos_master_fixed.dsk - that has the utility program on it. BRUN SYSUTIL.SYSTEM from there.

Um, the problem with that is that SYSUTIL.SYSTEM is a SYS file, and trying to BRUN it results in a FILE TYPE MISMATCH error. Research...oh, a "-" is the command to run non-BASIC files? Never would have figured that out, but yeah, it works...

Offline
Joined: Apr 11 2006
Posts: 1013
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

dramsey wrote:

Um, the problem with that is that SYSUTIL.SYSTEM is a SYS file, and trying to BRUN it results in a FILE TYPE MISMATCH error. Research...oh, a "-" is the command to run non-BASIC files? Never would have figured that out, but yeah, it works...

Ah, yes, sorry - I was not precise enough. I actually originally wrote '-' but it really doesn't look good in a sentence. So I guess I was thinking in more generic terms...

After my edit above, you have a disk image that boots right into the utilities, so you don't have to worry about invoking it by hand.

Offline
Joined: Feb 17 2013
Posts: 149
Re: Question about ProDOS 2.0

david__schmidt wrote:
dramsey wrote:

Um, the problem with that is that SYSUTIL.SYSTEM is a SYS file, and trying to BRUN it results in a FILE TYPE MISMATCH error. Research...oh, a "-" is the command to run non-BASIC files? Never would have figured that out, but yeah, it works...

Ah, yes, sorry - I was not precise enough. I actually originally wrote '-' but it really doesn't look good in a sentence. So I guess I was thinking in more generic terms...

After my edit above, you have a disk image that boots right into the utilities, so you don't have to worry about invoking it by hand.

That's OK, I figured it out.

And I've discovered to my delight that the //e key switches seem to be exactly like the Maxi Switch switches used in some old HP desk machines, like the 9826 I have. The actual switch modules are different, so you can't exchange keys between the machines, but it does mean the //e switches are internally identical, and come apart easily (once you desolder them from the keyboard PCB) and can be cleaned and reassembled. I've replaced three more switches this morning (one was a corroded mess whose contacts fell out in tiny parts when I opened it; the others were one dead and one very "bouncy", both of which operate perfectly now) and the //e Platinum keyboard is now perfect.