Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

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Hello ..I must be butt stupid but.... Embarrassed just started using my CFFA card I bought In 2006 And I can't seem to find anything on HOW to transfer files to the CF card from My laptop.. I have the CFFA setup and formatted and boots from slot 7 on my APPLE IIE and GS .. Since the Laptop does not recognize the CF card .. how can I load the card with Programs? I must be overlooking something... Mike

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

I can't seem to find any manuals for the CFFA 2.0 Card, but with the the CFFA 3000 Card, you transfer Apple Floppy Disk Images, ( e.g. *.DSK, *.DO, *.PO ) to the CF Card. Then with the Selector Software on the Apple ][, you chose which Disk Image, to connect to which Disk Drive, then you can Reboot the Computer..

Try this Game, LodeRunner... ( In remembrance of Douglas E. Smith )

I just bought Two of the CFFA 3000, Run #3 back in NOV-2013..

MarkO

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Mike3 wrote:

Hello ..I must be butt stupid but.... Embarrassed just started using my CFFA card I bought In 2006

As they say, there are no such things as stupid questions... but some might find it, ah, interesting that you let that card sit for lo these eight years. Good on you for buying one, though.

There was a decent discussion of it back in the day on usenet - here's a link to it:
http://www.techtalkz.com/apple/187821-q-how-use-cffa.html

It would be a good idea to read that through and get yourself familiar with the basic concepts of how it works. One thing that has developed since that time is that CiderPress (http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net) has added capabilities to understand the native CF partitions that the original CFFA card wrote. Here is a tutorial on CiderPress and how it works with a CF card:
http://ciderpress.sourceforge.net/tutorial/index.htm

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

MarkO wrote:

I can't seem to find any manuals for the CFFA 2.0 Card

http://dreher.net/projects/CFforAppleII/downloads/Run6_CDROM.zip

MarkO wrote:

but with the the CFFA 3000 Card, you[...]

The CFFFA3000 is a completely different animal... don't be confused, you can't copy disk images directly to a CFFA 2.0 CF card.

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

david__schmidt wrote:
MarkO wrote:

I can't seem to find any manuals for the CFFA 2.0 Card

http://dreher.net/projects/CFforAppleII/downloads/Run6_CDROM.zip

I could not locate that link from either the Downloads Page or the References Page..

MarkO wrote:

but with the the CFFA 3000 Card, you[...]

The CFFFA3000 is a completely different animal... don't be confused, you can't copy disk images directly to a CFFA 2.0 CF card.

I thought it was similar, but the preceding model was different...

MarkO

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

MarkO wrote:

I could not locate that link from either the Downloads Page or the References Page..

dreher.net -> downloads -> (small print at the bottom of the page) Files for older CFFA...

MarkO wrote:

I thought it was similar, but the preceding model was different...

Nope. There was CFFA, and there was CFFA3000. CFFA is only capable of using hard-coded partitions. There is no other notion of virtual disks at all - that was introduced with the CFFA3000 (which the OP does not have).

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

david__schmidt wrote:
MarkO wrote:

I could not locate that link from either the Downloads Page or the References Page..

dreher.net -> downloads -> (small print at the bottom of the page) Files for older CFFA...

Ahhh.. yes..... I see it now...

Quote:
MarkO wrote:

I thought it was similar, but the preceding model was different...

Nope. There was CFFA, and there was CFFA3000. CFFA is only capable of using hard-coded partitions. There is no other notion of virtual disks at all - that was introduced with the CFFA3000 (which the OP does not have).

That is what I understood from reading past posts...

MarkO

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

I spent all day reading all I could about CiderPress Tried to follow the examples watched the Animation Felt Like a Circus lion jumping through Hoops.. but still not closer to getting files to work on my CFFA ...Why cant they just spell out how to put files on the CF card to use in the CFFA.. I am usually a pretty Quick study ,, but this program isn't Very intuitive.. Or maybe I am just butt stupid...

On letting the CFFA sit for 8 years,, I received the card around the same time I was divorced,, Just Stopped Partying Laughing out loud .. Well not really it took a long time for things to get back to normal...

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Ok, maybe we just need to back up and set some expectations. The CFFA 2.0 card can take a Compact Flash memory device and divide it up into one or more 32 megabyte partitions that ProDOS can see. They look like hard drives to ProDOS and the Apple II.

Like a hard drive, you need the source file and destination file "visible" at the same time in order to copy from one to the other. You can do that in ProDOS using a utility like the "ProDOS utilities disk" or a later version of Copy II+, for example. Have the CFFA 2.0 card in one slot, and have a floppy disk or something else in another slot and copy away.

You want to copy files from the Internet, you say? Well, then, your options are getting slimmer. If you yank out your CF card and plug it into a PC with CiderPress, you could copy from one virtual disk to your CF card's virtual hard drive. But it's not exactly easy or straightforward, as you noticed from the video.

If you're just starting out, it's a little like a chicken-and-egg situation. You need some software on the card to get going... but to get going, you need some software.

Maybe if you explained a little about how you want to use your card, we could give some specifics? I'm hoping the answer isn't "I want to play a bunch of games." That's actually kind of hard to do with the CFFA 2.0 since it doesn't emulate floppy drives.

Edit:
You may want to view some notes from Rich's forum from years gone by where DOS.MASTER was discussed - which includes whole-drive images that you can map onto your CF card (with instructions!):
http://dreher.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=79

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Well I don't think I have ever played a Game clear through I never much liked them... I am not sure what I will do with the card in the future but at the moment I need Some Sider II software on 5 1/4 disk.. I think I have found an older installation program where I can set the HD Geometry.. The newest 4.0 I have is an automatic installation with that already set.. I have figured out How to view BAS files and that seems the case.. with the older Prg. Also can you copy files from the cffa card to a real floppy drive...As the installation Looks at disk 1 for the install.. so I want to copy the SIDER Programs to the CFFA then to 5 1/4 disks ... I remember using ADT it was a bit slow but it was intuitive .Great piece of Work.. I remember now I got the CFFA card to make things easier? Somehow back then I did get the card formatted and several files on it...

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Well I read and reread all I could find.tried all day.. This one of the most confusing processes I have ever ran across.. I have Commodores, Trs-80's Atari;s IBM's.. I can transfer files very easy..with SD cards .. I got one file transferred but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how... I did transfer other files but they either will not show up or they will not work.... So I checked out ADT ,, It has changed these last 8 years.. I think I will set up one of my older laptops and try that tomorrow.. At least I know it will work.. That was why I originally bought the CFFA card to make transferring files easier...

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

It's a little hard to get your head wrapped around, I understand. Think of it this way: it's a ProDOS hard drive. However you'd transfer files to an Apple II hard drive... that's how you do it. There are many ways. Since the CF is removable and pluggable into a modern computer (using CiderPress), you have one more option than you did in 1985. If that method makes your brain hurt - don't do that. Stick to copying via floppy and ProDOS utilities.

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Thanks for all the help so far... I appreciate it.. I have ADT downloaded and Boot strapped I tried the Windows version but couldn't get the java thing to work... So I have the Dos/32 bit version set up on both computers.. I am a little confused on how to select what file to send to the apple II I read the complete Guide But couldn't find how to send from the PC (select a file to send)..I am sure it probably very obvious but I am tired and worn out its probably staring me in the face... I have did this before with the same program 7-8 years ago.. ?

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Mike3 wrote:

I read the complete Guide But couldn't find how to send from the PC (select a file to send).

I'm not sure ADT has a complete guide anywhere... ADTPro does, but where did you read about ADT?

Anyway, you don't send from the PC - you receive from the Apple II. The Apple II side is in charge of everything. Since you're using DOS ADT, you'll need to have the disk images you want to transfer in the same directory as ADT.EXE is living in. Then, you choose to receive them from the Apple II by requesting a disk image by name.

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW
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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Hello Mike 3,

after waiting a while tinkering around with other tasks and viewing the previous answers
(postings) probably a summary with additional info´s might get you ahead...

A note to later readers of this thread:
This posting is related to the CFFA Card version II,
which is different to CFFA3000 ! It spots how to come around some
restrictions and limitations - that have been "removed" at the CFFA3000.

before starting the explenations a summary of "preconditions":
you have a cardreader availiable that is working and shows the CF card inserted
(no need to see the content itself within windows ! )
you should have installed at the laptop:

a) applewin ( AppleIIe emulation at the laptop )
source for download - link at the end of the mentioned page:
https://github.com/AppleWin/AppleWin
install it to the laptop

b) ciderpress ( diskhandling utility at the laptop )
source for download :
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ciderpress/
install it to the laptop

c) ADTWIN is optional ( ADT requires workong version of JAVA installed )
source for download:
http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/
install it to the laptop

d) have a copy of the Copy II Plus program Disk 1 availiable at the laptop
In general you will use the util.system program on that disk which is a file copy program
source for download:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/disk_utils/copy_ii/
Name of Disk in list:
copy2+9.1.s1.dsk
And of course it´s highly recommended to also pick up the manual of this programm
if we later want to use it! Before we later start with point 3) you should read the basics
- otherwise you might run into trouble by choosing wrong options or pressing wrong command keys !
source for download:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applications/misc/
Name of Disk in list:
copy_ii_plus_9.0.pdf

e) have a copy of the ProDOS Masterdisk Version 1.1.1 availiable at the laptop
( in some cases you might like to have access to the "convert" program availiable on that disk!
source for download:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/masters/prodos/
Name of Disk in list:
Apple IIe ProDOS Users Disk (copied 3-12-85).dsk

starting the setup:

0) It´s recommended to create within the directory where AppleWin has been installed to laptop
a subdirectory /WORKDISKS to copy used disks to ( like the ones mentioned above,
that should be moved to this directory ! )
This will prevent you from waisting time searching around your laptop harddisk for the locations
of disks spreaded across other subdirectories at the laptop )

1) first of all you should search the driveletter associated in windows to the CF-card by
opening the windows explorer and viewing the drives associated to the Cardreader.
If the card reader is "4 in 1" or "6 in 1" the eplorer will display several driveletters
located one drive letter to each slo of the card reader.
Look for the slot (i.e.) driveletter located to the CF-card and note this besides to a sheet of paper...

2) open Ciderpress and there you might open either

I) a hardisk volume with ProDOS structure

or

II) a DOS-Disk with DOS-Structure

a hint besides: the "Help" Command on topline is not "just for fun" .... it contains the manual
how to use ciderpress and therefor it should be used ( and how about reading the manual ?? )

Starting wih I) by choosing from "File" the option "New" and there the option "diskimage"
and in the popup window setting the opptions
to "ProDOS"
to "32 MB"
to a name you apreciate, like "MYHDNO1" ( hint: keep name short and simple, because you might
later also like to access that volume also with other disktools from DOS too and DOS does not like
names with dots inside - as permitted in ProDOS ? )

After pressing OK-button program will ask you to select the location to store image to -
so that harddisk image should be stored at the CF card - it will later contain the collection
of the files you want to transfer.... and it schould be given the same name also used previously
as Volume name so i.e. "MYHDNO1" as ProDOS volume should get name "MYHDNO1.po"

Starting wih II) by choosing from "File" the option "New" and there the option "diskimage"
and in the popup window setting the opptions
to "DOS"
to "140KB"
to a Disk Volume you apreciate, like "001" ( hint: Use differnet Volume numbers to prevent
later "mixing" while copying and making note at papersheet which Volume Nuber shall contain
which kind of files ? )

After pressing OK-button program will ask you to select the location to store image to -
so that diskimages should be stored at the previously mentions subdirectory of AppleWin /WORKDISKS
- it will later contain the collection of Diskimages with the files you want to transfer....
and it schould be given the same name also used previously as Volume name so i.e. "001" as DOS volume
should recieve name "DOS001.po"

If you have moved Files st the Apple from one disk to the other or have piccked up disk-images from internet,
where you want to pick files from - then that images schould also be relocated to the mention subdirectory
at AppleWin/WORKDISKS ! This makes "disk switching" in next step simple painless and easy !

3) After preparing the different media for moving files around you may start the program AppleWin !
again at the beginning: the top icon at right side is´nt "just for fun" it´s the link to the
helpfile containing the instructions and manual and it´s highly recommended to read it !

Before invoking the program you should previously setup the program for use !
That done by clicking the icon with joystick and speaker at the lower right side and
setting the options in the popup window:
click to the lash "Disk" and set checkmark to the box
"enable harddisk controller in slot 7"
click to "Select HDD" and set it to the path of the CF-Card and there to the
file we have named the Harddisk image previously (i.e.) "MYHDNO1.po" and
in the bottomline set the path to path where you have installed Ciderpress at the laptop !

After clicking the OK-Button at the bottom you must get the Copy II Plus disk availiable
by clicking at the right side to the Icon with the DISK symbol with the additional big letter "1"
and setting the path to the diskimage copy2+9.1.s1.dsk that has been previously downloaded
at point d) and at the second DISK symbol with the no."2" you might allocate one
of the DOSdisk images created at point to (i.e.) DOS001.po....

After invoking the Apple IIe emulation by clicking to the Applesymbol at the right side the
emulation will stop with the errormessage "no system availiable" of course,
because there is no ProDOS or other system availiable at the harddisk-
image "MYHDNO1.po" that has been allocated to the Harddsikimmage.
Therefor you MUST now press at the laptop the keys "Cntrl" and "Break" together
similar to the reset combination at the Apple IIe ( and also explained
in the previously mentioned help file/ manual ) to get the regular Apple promt.
At the prompt you enter the "PR#6" command followed by "Enter" like done at a normal
Apple IIe to get the emulation booting from the diskimage allocated to the
DISK 1 icon. After few seconds you will get the menu of the Copy II Plus program !

That´s the point you wanted to get to !
At this point
a) the harddisk image "MYHDNO1.po" is availiable in the menus as drive in slot 7 drive 1 !
b) the copy program and the operation system is availiable at slot 6 drive 1 !
c) the DOSdisk-image DOS001.po is availiable at slot 6,d2 !

Before jumping in the file-copy tasks some very important remarks:

You might for example later decide that it might be wise to allocate a .hdv harddiskimage
in the setup of AppleWin ( 3) second paragraph ) to slot 7, d2 !

Its quite a good idea while performing the copytasks to copy the entire content
of the copy2+9.1.s1.dsk diskimage to the root of the "MYHDNO1.do" harddisk volume
at slot 7, d1 which is the booting device and then be able to boot straight off
from the beginning after pressing the apple icon at the rightside, because system
and copy program will the be availiable including the operation system at slot 7,d1
bringing you back straight back to the copy program after every reboot.

This avoids the hangup after boot and the requires "Cntrl" and "Break" to get the
emulation boot from slot 6,d1 !

At later stage when finished with normal copy operations you might replace the
files at the "MYHDNO1.po" volume with regular ProDOS system files from
"Apple IIe ProDOS Users Disk (copied 3-12-85).dsk" which contains the
mentioned "convert" program for "special copy" tasks.

In both programs it is possible to copy also files from DOS-diskimage or DOS disk
to proDOS diskimage or ProDOS disk and vice versa. BUT YOU MUST remember one big
"PITFALL" :
Most programmfiles in which programs perform diskaccess from program
the access is dependent to the operation system it was programmed ! So if the
programm was written in DOS that prgramms will use filenames according to
"DOS-conventions" (i.e.) filenames may not contain dots while programs written
in ProDOS won´t permit using filenames containing blank spaces ! And there are several
other pitfalls too, that you should mention ! This starts right up at the point when
transferring files from DOS-image to ProDOS image and vice versa with the programs
in this example ( COPY II PLUS or CONVERT ), when the program requests new filenames
while performing such copytasks, because the filenames of the files to be moved to
"alternate operation system" don´t match the "naming conventions" of the "target system"
!

In such cases it gets needed to enter the program code itself and to alter
the used filenames in the code
to match the new altered filenames given while the copy process
has been performed ! Otherwise such moved programs will crash !

While in use of the Copy II plus program you ARE PERMITTED to change
dsikimages allocated to the drives
BUT IT IS GOOD BEHAVIOUR
before accessing that changed disk with copy commands
to previously perform a catalog command to get Copy II Plus
to recognize the change of the diskimage !!!

If you have in the setup of the emulation at the latch "input" setup
the option Microsoft CPM Card checked and set to a slot 4 or 5 and
you have a fitting ( CPM/DOS or CPM/proDOS ) so called "Hybrid Disk image"
present at Slot 6, D1 you might even boot CPM and then use conversion
utilities to move source-files from CPM-Disk image to Prodos-Disk image
( and same is also possible at the "interchange"-process from and to
UCSD-Pascal to ProDOS or DOS .... )
This is for example interesting if you have written generic pascal-routines
and made generic pascal-algorythms and want to interchange usability ( in modern
speech: flexibility / object orientated ) of stuff for example
at UCSD Pascal, later with Kyan Pascal ( at ProDOS ) or ORCA Pascal ( at ProDOS )
or with Turbo Pascal or MT+ Pascal ( at CPM ) or other versions !

Of course there also is still the limitation valid to the amount of filenames
within the specific directory levels !

Therefor it is also good habit to work with subdirectories and use them
- also because you might otherwise loose overview of the huge amount of
files present in one "giant-bunch" !
This habit helps keeping order and structure.

In next step you just must allocate the "natively by the CFFA Intrerface generated partition"
to Slot 7, d2 and then move the stuff from Slot 7,d1 to slot 7, d2 !

sincerely
speedyG

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Posts: 40
Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Hello I knew someone out there would have the answer.. I have printed out your "guide" and am in the process of setting it up as you have written will get to it later today... Again Thanks very much,, maybe I can get some use out of the CFFA card after all. Would it be ok to either post here with questions or PM you if I get stuck.. I figure if I can post here it may help others in the future that have a hard time like me ..I Googled for days without finding anything close to as good as what you have posted.. you would have thought that exchanging files withe CFFA and the PC would have been discussed quite a bit.

. I was waiting for the New run of the CFFA3000 .. is it as difficult as this? I would hope it was considerably easier.. I have many Vintage Computers with A SD/flash HD/floppy alternatives Even the lowly Sinclar ZX81 all I do is place the SD card in my PC and click and drag/copy&paste the files ..I also have a SDISK II for the apple that has only 2 IC's and very little else all I do is convert the .dsk file into a .nic file click and drag it to the SD card place it in the SDISK II the run the programs.. But It only uses dos3.3.. anyway Thanks for taking time to help me .. Regards.. Mike

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Re: Transferring Files/Prgs to CFFA 2.0 card?? HOW

Hello Mike3,
about the question related to CFFA3000.... well that depends to your point of view.....
It has at least the ability to act like the SDisk you allready have......
with the external switches you may switch along the availiable Volumes....
By that ability you can use any kind of disk images ( also UCSD, DOS and CPM )
in fact all CFFA the old one and the 3000 use ProDOS partition and therefor
also with the 3000 the handling of the larger Volumes ( being ProDOS ) remains same.
I have both and use them in that computers i want a large library with ProDOS structure running
and with subdirectories ordering the huge amount of software.

For that Computers that are runnung also DOS ( like my measuremnt software for the gameport and
the Epromprogrammer also running from the gameport and Volumes containing the EpromData )
or UCSD Pascal or CPM for the use with my various compilers and Interpreters ( i also use such funny
things like LISP, Prolog and such old bastards like PL1, Fortran and Cobol and the neat stuff like
various kinds of Pascal and i like the idea off programming that way that i can exchange code among
that various pascal versions with only changing the libraries that contain the stuff related to
the current version and of course a bit of C+ and Aztec C ) - in such cases i use the RAMfast SCSI
Controller, because it permits native Volumes in the native operation systems.... i.e.
UCSD partitions, DOS Partitions, ProDOS Partitions and CPM partitions !

Only very few IDE Controllers permit use of all 4 Systems in native partitions and booting the native
Systems from that native partition
( like the Vulcan with the Version 2.0 from Applied Engineering
or the very former IDE Controller from Ing. Lange, who later ran the SSH-Systems... at least from that
systems i´m sure because i am running them... ) maybe another member here adds more controllers to the
list which are for sure able to run alternate to ProDOS operation systems and list their abilities.

Of course if you get stuck, we can continue the postings here....
but in first stage i´d recommend to reread some of the basic stuff.... ( DOS Manual, ProDOS manual )...
most of the problems that occur and result to stuck systems is related to problems with naming conventions
and similar stuff....

sincerely speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....