iBook G3 and G4 logic board problems technical aspect

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Joined: Jan 5 2007
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second rework

Well, I was about to get my second reworked board back, but when I opened the package up, they had sent the wrong items. At first I was thrilled - they sent 2 ibook G4 boards and a pc board !

Well, I sobered up quick and after talking to First Phase, sent it to the right guy.

So, I hope to have news of my second rework in a week or so.

If that board works out, I send in another board.

Tom

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Joined: Jan 17 2007
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Motherboard rework

Anyone know of anywhere in the UK that does the motherboard rework that Tom is talking about where they locally reheat flux under the chip?

This would be much appreciated as Logic boards are hard to come by on ebay and are currently selling for £200 a go.

Apple should replace all these faulty boards.

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They did, within a reasonable

They did, within a reasonable period. The first of these broken machines are now over 5 years old. The repair program went for some time, but not all machines developed symptoms in that time. It is reasonable to expect them to replace them, but not 2-3 years after even the extended warranties are out.

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Re: They did, within a reasonable

I disagree. If there is a design defect, and Apple does not correct the design defect, but merely swaps out faulty logic boards throughout the extended warranty period for other faulty logic boards, Apple never rectifies originally selling me a defectively designed iBook.

Apple should have given users either the option of repairing the iBooks, or offered credits reflecting the used nature of the iBooks to be used towards new Macs.

With that said, my G3 iBook suffered the same problem. The logic board was replaced twice. The third time I had the problem it was outside the extended warranty. I patched it using the shim method. To do this I bought a small piece of sheet metal, and aluminum tape, both found at any decent hardware store for under twenty dollars.

From the sheet metal, I cut six two inch by two inch squares, and doubled these up to make them thicker. The result was I had three two by two doubled up squares.

I carefully removed the bottom. I placed one doubled up squared over where the processor is. I then spaced out the two additional doubled up squares evenly along the backside. This was mainly so that the iBook would sit flat and not wobbled with the extra bulge under the processor. I then taped down all three of these doubled up squares using several pieces of the aluminum tape (Apple actually uses the aluminum tape in the ibook).

I was careful not to cover too many of the ventilation holes. Others have used plastic and cardboard for their shims. Metal conducts heat, will not burn, and is often less flexible (all good things for this patch).

So far my patch has lasted three months.

Jon wrote:

They did, within a reasonable period. The first of these broken machines are now over 5 years old. The repair program went for some time, but not all machines developed symptoms in that time. It is reasonable to expect them to replace them, but not 2-3 years after even the extended warranties are out.

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Shim Fix Photos

Also, I do not know if this link was already posted, but in my view it is the best for showing one how to fix this issue on G3s.

http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=231

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The question is, where is the

The question is, where is the fault? Is it the application of solder balls on the GPU, which would be the fault of ATI or Quanta. Is it the design of the laptops that have a little flex that increases the possibility of the BGA solder cracking? Is it all of the above? None?

What, exactly, justifies a fair replacement? So far Apple has made a decent attempt to replace failed boards. Can they be reasonably expected to replace the entire design when MOST of them are fine? How many millions of iBooks are out there? How many suffer the BGA failure? Anyone who expects a perfect product over the whole line is expecting too much from any manufacturer. I can appreciate the frustration of getting a bad product, but if it gets replaced, at no charge, until it gets fixed, within the stated at purchase warranty period, it's being done under the terms "agreed upon" at purchase.

I had to have an iPod replaced, because there was a fault in the headphone port. That was covered under warranty. I've since replaced the battery, at my own expense as it's out of warranty now. I could have lobbied to be a part of the battery replacement program, but I got 2 years of use out of the battery, so I feel it lived up to a reasonable expectation of functionality.

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iBook Logic Board Repair

I have been posting on Apple Discussions regarding G3 Dual USB iBook problems since before the iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program began in January of 2004.

I can't recall anybody reporting there that a shim fix failed, once it worked. I've seen people post back with, "No, that didn't work for me," but, as far as I can remember, nobody has come back and said, "It worked, but now it doesn't." If anyone has said that (and, please forgive me, if I've forgotten a post that said that; I've posted to so many users to suggest the fix), it is certainly a very slim minority.

If any of you are courageous or knowledgeable with a soldering iron, you may be interested in Guy Kuo's experience, as reported on the Macworld forums.

Also, Apple has been making a few exceptions to the three-year limitation under the iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program. When you call Apple, ask for Customer Relations (NOT Customer Service, they can't help) and ask that they make an exception to the three-year rule for you. Polite disappointment seems to get you further than angry demands.

Good luck to you all!

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Re: The question is, where is the

There is nothing to suggest that most of them are fine. The only reason Apple offered a twice extended warranty is because a significant number of them are plagued with the problem. Moreover, there are many people reporting, including myself, that even the replaced logic board fails.

Sure with most products a small percentage are suspected to fail. However, if a large percentage of them fail, this is a design defect, and the company needs to reimburse the customer for the reduced value of the product.

Jon wrote:

The question is, where is the fault? Is it the application of solder balls on the GPU, which would be the fault of ATI or Quanta. Is it the design of the laptops that have a little flex that increases the possibility of the BGA solder cracking? Is it all of the above? None?

What, exactly, justifies a fair replacement? So far Apple has made a decent attempt to replace failed boards. Can they be reasonably expected to replace the entire design when MOST of them are fine? How many millions of iBooks are out there? How many suffer the BGA failure? Anyone who expects a perfect product over the whole line is expecting too much from any manufacturer. I can appreciate the frustration of getting a bad product, but if it gets replaced, at no charge, until it gets fixed, within the stated at purchase warranty period, it's being done under the terms "agreed upon" at purchase.

I had to have an iPod replaced, because there was a fault in the headphone port. That was covered under warranty. I've since replaced the battery, at my own expense as it's out of warranty now. I could have lobbied to be a part of the battery replacement program, but I got 2 years of use out of the battery, so I feel it lived up to a reasonable expectation of functionality.

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I say most are fine, because

I say most are fine, because we don't have millions of iBook owners out the bemoaning the failure of their iBooks. We may have a significant number, and thus the repair program, but if it was any number over, say a random 10-20% we'd be seeing a huge number of lawsuits. We sure heard about all the people with bad iPod batteries, iMac PAV failures, and the most well known recent Apple large scale failure, the 17" CRT Studio Display. Where is the voice of the half million or quarter million owners of failed iBooks? By that missing voice, I say "most" are fine. Apple has been known to extend repair programs (see threads here dealing with the afore mentioned Studio Display) so they are meeting the terms of their warranty above legal requirements.

If the board that was replaced still had a failure, it is up to you to go back to Apple and have it redone. It seems you did. You keep doing that until it gets fixed. That's the way warranty repairs work, in all businesses.

When you think about the problem with the iBook, think about the literal millions of cars/vans/trucks that get a recall put out, even from a single maker. It's up to the owner to take the car in to get fixed. It's up to the owner to bring it back if it wasn't fixed right. It's not up to the owner to demand the purchase price back of the car. I don't know of a single car maker that would refund the purchase over a warranty repair.

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Re: lasting shims

I did the shim fix two months ago. I never use it on my desk. I use it on my lap. The fix has given me no problems so far. My system is a G3. Also, I used the shim fix shown at:

http://www.joshoakhurst.com/?p=231

Instead of business cards I used cut sheet metal squares doubled up and taped down with aluminum tape. So far no problems.

I am, however, going to try and get a credit from Apple towards a new machine.

coius wrote:
Tom Peters wrote:

I vaguely recall someone claiming the shim failed over time.

That might have been me on this forum. Before Apple replaced my Laptop, my G3 900 had the shim fix fail on me 4x. The fix is absolutely useless unless it sits on a table 100% of the time for the rest of it's life and not moved every again. With time, the shim will come loose and will start the horrible process all over again with the GPU Coming loose

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Re: I say most are fine, because

I practice law, and no there wouldn't be a lot of lawsuits. First, the only people who can sue are the people who bought the iBooks from Apple. That is because they are the only people who have privity with Apple. I would assume after a few years, a good chunk of these people would have sold their iBooks. The people who bought used iBooks have no case against Apple.

Second, you would not get the full amount of the purchase, but the value of a used iBook with no problems. Accordingly, many people are not going to want to waste their time trying to collect a few hundred dollars.

Third, not many lawyers would take the case, because it would be hard to get legal fees from Apple.

Fourth, it is possible there was already a class action case involving the iBooks. The extended warranty program may have come about because of that. If so, people can't sue again because a class action suit covers everybody who bought the iBook regardless if you personally are suing or not. .

Jon wrote:

I say most are fine, because we don't have millions of iBook owners out the bemoaning the failure of their iBooks. We may have a significant number, and thus the repair program, but if it was any number over, say a random 10-20% we'd be seeing a huge number of lawsuits. We sure heard about all the people with bad iPod batteries, iMac PAV failures, and the most well known recent Apple large scale failure, the 17" CRT Studio Display. Where is the voice of the half million or quarter million owners of failed iBooks? By that missing voice, I say "most" are fine. Apple has been known to extend repair programs (see threads here dealing with the afore mentioned Studio Display) so they are meeting the terms of their warranty above legal requirements.

If the board that was replaced still had a failure, it is up to you to go back to Apple and have it redone. It seems you did. You keep doing that until it gets fixed. That's the way warranty repairs work, in all businesses.

When you think about the problem with the iBook, think about the literal millions of cars/vans/trucks that get a recall put out, even from a single maker. It's up to the owner to take the car in to get fixed. It's up to the owner to bring it back if it wasn't fixed right. It's not up to the owner to demand the purchase price back of the car. I don't know of a single car maker that would refund the purchase over a warranty repair.

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G3 Logic Board

My daughter phoned from college in tears yesterday stating that her used E-Bay-purchased G3 800 mhz iBook worked fine when she went to bed the night before, and now will do nothing. No fan (no lights, no motor car...no, wait, that's another forum), no sound, no power, no anything. She tried another outlet, tried another cord, tried another building....nothing. Is this the symptom of the famous logic-board failure? So many posts seem to indicate at least SOME activity when the logic board fails. I'm wondering if I'm on the wrong track. Thanks for helping a novice!

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Re: G3 Logic Board

Murray Mobile wrote:

My daughter phoned from college in tears yesterday stating that her used E-Bay-purchased G3 800 mhz iBook worked fine when she went to bed the night before, and now will do nothing. No fan (no lights, no motor car...no, wait, that's another forum), no sound, no power, no anything. She tried another outlet, tried another cord, tried another building....nothing. Is this the symptom of the famous logic-board failure? So many posts seem to indicate at least SOME activity when the logic board fails. I'm wondering if I'm on the wrong track. Thanks for helping a novice!

Try to startup the ibook without battery!

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Thanks, Amenono

Thanks for the suggestion regarding startup without the battery. She gave it a whirl, but no such luck. Still nothing.
I'm still open to suggestions, because I already have enough paperweights and it's too small to drop in the Gulf to start a reef. I welcome all ideas!

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Shim on iBook G4

My room mate's iBook G4 14" failed. I knew it was the GPU because it would start with pressure over that part of the computer.

I added two extra thermal pads between the GPU and the Heatsink. It was quite tight and took a little while to tighten down; however, the computer has been working without any problems.

I had my own iBook G3 12" that failed the same way. I had it fixed under the extended logic board repair program last January. It failed again in November, but was out of the program. The Customer Service made an exception where I paid for the labour but they waived the cost of the actual replacement logic board. A month after I got it back it failed again. I sent it back, this time still under the 90 day warranty of the repair and it came back working. However, when I went to install Tiger (they had erased my hard drive) I discovered that it would not boot from any CD or DVD.

I was given two option, they would fix it again (probably by adding another logic board that is doomed to fail) or I could have the cost credited toward the purchase of a new Mac. So, my new MacBook should be coming as soon as I send them my old iBook!

I'm glad the shim worked for my Room Mate's computer, and I'll probably be doing that for a couple of other friends I know that have 14" paperweights at the moment.

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iBook GPU reball

I recently had my iBook 700MHz 14.1" suffer the classic, video goes crazy, freezes and reboot with no video. I called First Phase twice but no return call. An email received a terse reply.
So I called these guys. They're closer anyway:
http://www.superiorreball.com/
Talked to a guy named Dale and he was very accommodating. A pull and re-ball of the GPU would cost $75 return shipping included. Reflowing was $38 but he pointed out many downsides to that.
I pulled the board and shipped it to him UPS. He called me the moment it walked in the door. The board came back after the weekend along with 8 X-rays of my GPU pulled and re-balled! Put the board back in my iBook and HOORAY! it works like new!! So my Baby's back!
I highly recommend these guys.
Richard

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First Phase

First Phase has been pretty cool for me. What did Superior Reball say the disadvantages of reflow were ? I got xrays back of my reflow job, and it looks great.

Tom (Mad Dog)

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iBook fix

Well they seem to feel that reflowing leaves corrosion in the array that's at the seat of the problem in the first place.

I wonder if this problem is related to the Sony solder problem in tuner and decoder modules in the middle '90s. If it's similiar to that the solder crystalizes over time and becomes non conductive. That would also explain why replaced logic boards also fail over time.

Flexing of the boards under these ball grid arrays seem to contribute to the problem if it's not the main cause of the problem.

If yours works fine after reflowing, I say great. Only time and stress will tell which is the better way to go as these repaired boards burn, age in and are subjected to more flexing.

Reflow at $38 is half the price of a $75 reball (Superior's Prices). But either one is still a lot cheaper than the $295 flat rate for Apple or $532 for ResQ Systems quote I just saw on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/2ajg9g

Plus my baby's back!

Richard

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reflowing

Considering how long the ibooks were produced (all of which had the problems), I have my doubts it was bad solder.

Still, its hard to say for sure.

Mad Dog

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iBook G4 Issues

Hey. Just recently my ibook has been acting real funny. I think it turns on but nothing shows up on the screen. I can tell its on because if I press the caps lock button the green light comes on. Its been on the charger for a while so I know thats not the issue.. Does anyone know whats wrong with it? and also know how to fix it?
Thanks
(djkali619@yahoo.com)

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iBook G4 logic board problems with blank internal screen

I am not convinced that this is a isolated hardware problem. I am having blank screen symptoms on a G4 1,2gHz (production march 05). All hardware works except the internal screen - it works fine with a external monitor. It is nothing wrong with the internal screen and/or backlight invertor nor cables to screen as I have had the videosignal feed (cable) connected to another logic board with both machines on and the screen will work fine. This isolates the problem to be either the actual videosignal connector on the logic board (if it is the same signal that is routed (mirrored) to the external monitor connector) -I need more information on this? Please guide me on the ATI graphic chip. Is the signal split within the chip? I'm not, on the web, finding any schematics on the logic board or ATI chip. Or a software related problem - firmware- .

Further.. I have recently been able to succesfully fix a G4 1,2 gHz logic board, late 2004 production, (infamous G3 dead screen problem with all typical signs; high speed fan; shift key light on; screen soemtimes ok for a couple of minutes etc) with the heatgun method.
However, now working on G4 the board above, I recall some thing that make me wonder:
1. I was never able to get the previous one ok by putting pressure on components.
2. I still had the symptoms after the heatgun treatment (once) as I immediately did a new OS X installation and after that it works, flawless. Hmm...
Could it be possible that the software, firmware is corrupt and that the G3 symptoms shows up on G4 due to that. Could it be a virus that simulates the original defect of the G3 logic board? Just thinking out loud and post this thougt. Excuse my bad written language as I'm not English spoken.
Thanks

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iBook Solder

Hey Mad Dog,
I think you're right. Here's some comments from Dale at Superior:
" I really think it is a connection problem due to the flexing of the board. I have seen this problem in IBM’s and Sonys in the past. The solder seems to be fine when you look at the BGA after it has been pulled. I also don’t see any corrosion on the pads."

So now that my iBook is repaired I'm rethinking the design of the soft case I carry it around in. Probably a couple of padded 3/8" machining aluminum plates top and bottom to prevent any flexing of the iBook while in transit. Or a total rigid box structure inside the carrying case that the iBook slips into. I've had people sit on my iBook case in cars and planes. That can't be good.
Richard

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G4 iBook repair

You could go here (is it a 12"?):
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G4-12-Inch/
You'll have to find the GPU chip which I hear is on the top of the logic board on the G4s. On the 14" and 12" G3s that I have worked on the chip is on the bottom and can be identified by the "Rage 128" on the 14" and "Radeon??" on the 12". Anyway it's on the bottom and just pressing on the chip while it's booting up will cause the video to come back on if the problem hasn't gotten too bad. On these machines you can see the position of the chip without taking off the bottom shield because there's a square bump in the lower shield where the heat sink tape mounts. (At least in the case of the 2 iBooks I have here). This pretty much verifies that it's the classic GPU chip reball problem. You can pull the logic board and send it to Superior (see above) and have it reballed. It's a bit of a crap shoot and you need to be confident working inside one of these iBooks. However if it works out you can fix it for $78. Otherwise I'd say send it to that place in CA that will do it for in some cases more than Apple charges but the warrantee is longer:
http://www.dttservice.com/ibookg4.html
Richard

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Re: iBook Solder

spudnuty wrote:

I've had people sit on my iBook case in cars and planes. That can't be good.

shudder

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successful heatgun repair of ibook

I had been researching this problem for some time, myself. I own an ibook 800mhz that was afflicted with the typical video/crash/lockup problems, alleviated somewhat by significant pressure to left of the trackpad. I had tried the pressure/shim solution with little success.

I found a post by Guy Kuo at http://forums.macnn.com/66/ibook-and-macbook/210232/diy-ibook-dual-usb-logic-board/ explaining how he “reflowed

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One point: Apple did admit it

One point: Apple did admit it was a problem, as they had the Repair Program in the first place. Wink

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G3 logicboard failure

I ordered a used iBook G3 on eBay, and when it arrived, it had the symptoms of the classic logicboard failure, as far as I can tell. The guy would only give me half my money back, and now I'm trying to repair the thing. I've taken it all apart, and am trying to put pressure on the loose chip to get it to boot, but all I get is a folder with a flashing mac face and question mark. Occasionally I also get what looks like an oversized refresh button in the upper left hand corner with an opposite one in the upper right hand corner. Is this the infamous blue screen of death? It's not exactly blue. Or do I need to reset the PMU, something that is referred to apocryphally here and there?

I'm not exactly a Mac genius, as you can tell, but I adored my old G3, which never had any problems until it was stolen. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Folder/face is telling you th

Folder/face is telling you that it can't find a bootable drive to start from.

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well i'm sure this was mentio

well i'm sure this was mentioned on here already, but has anyone in their experience found a g3 board that is less likely to have the issue? gpu in my ibook is fried and i'm considering rebuilding it with a new board since i burned up my wallstreet's processor in an overclock attempt. i'm hoping that a well placed graphics card heatsink (small thing too) will help keep it cool and in place without a heat shield present.

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It's not really heat that is

It's not really heat that is the problem, so much as flexing of the board.

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well i know no one tried this

well i know no one tried this, but with my plans to use a graphics card heatsink, i think what i might do is adapt strips of aluminum to tie the heatsink so mounting points on either side of the chip. i know no one has tried this, but i suppose it would be much more effective when combined with a shim since i don't have the heat shield anymore.

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one of the lucky ones

After repeatedly not working over and over again (ie computer would start up, but with blank screen), I took off the bottom cover and put two stickie note-page tabs that have some scotch mounting square stuff on that raised square on the bottom shield and now I'm 3 for 3 on getting the computer to work - thank you so much for your help!!!

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another schim fix

My GPU just went funky, and of course is a year out of AppleCare and the recall. I was really hoping to get a Macbook this summer( i am a teacher). When the GPU issue arose again last week I thought my tax refund was gone. Then I found this forum. I used a large washer and some heating tape. I taped the washer on the shield right under the GPU. This didn't quite cut it (even though i later realized i hadn;t put in the screws in the battery compartment. So, I folded up some of the heating tape and taped that under the washer. Put everything back and it's been working ever since, except for one GPU "blink and freeze". I just need it to get throught the school year!!

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another shim fix

My GPU just went funky, and of course is a year out of AppleCare and the recall. I was really hoping to get a Macbook this summer( i am a teacher). When the GPU issue arose again last week I thought my tax refund was gone. Then I found this forum. I used a large washer and some heating tape. I taped the washer on the shield right under the GPU. This didn't quite cut it (even though i later realized i hadn;t put in the screws in the battery compartment. So, I folded up some of the heating tape and taped that under the washer. Put everything back and it's been working ever since, except for one GPU "blink and freeze". I just need it to get throught the school year!!

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another schim fix

My GPU just went funky, and of course is a year out of AppleCare and the recall. I was really hoping to get a Macbook this summer( i am a teacher). When the GPU issue arose again last week I thought my tax refund was gone. Then I found this forum. I used a large washer and some heating tape. I taped the washer on the shield right under the GPU. This didn't quite cut it (even though i later realized i hadn;t put in the screws in the battery compartment. So, I folded up some of the heating tape and taped that under the washer. Put everything back and it's been working ever since, except for one GPU "blink and freeze". I just need it to get throught the school year!!

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new news:
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Update

So, over the last couple of months, the shims kept getting bigger and bigger until they were no longer big enough. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the plastic computer board so I could apply direct pressure and that was only effective for a short while. I now have taken off the bottom cover and put a fucking clamp on the ibook - can you tell my frustration? - it is positioned above and below that square where the shim was and this has been quite effective - some problems here and there, but lasts for quite a while in between. But since I don't have the bottom board on, I can't use the battery and it's not that aesthetically pleasing and I can't transport it anymore. I don't know what to do.

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Replaced logic boards shimmed and still faulty

I have 3 iBooks with bad logic board, 2 of them have had logic boards already replaced under the replacement program, but of course the replacement boards are no better than the originals (one went in 2 times - that's 6 bad logic boards out of a possible 6). So much for the Apple apologists. It's one thing to replace a defective part - that's a good thing, it's another thing to replace it with an equally defective part... that is not so laudable.
I saw the comments about the shims, hopefully opened up one of the 800Mhz G3s and found that an Apple Tech had already put in one of the Scotch shims when it was in for the board replacement! This was in 2005 so at that time Apple knew the probability that chips were prone to come loose was sufficient that they should go ahead and add a shim when replacing the boards. I haven't opened up the other one that has a replacement logic board yet since it just died last night but I won't be surprised to find it shimmed as well.
Guess I'll give First Phase a try.

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Microscope pictures of solder joint

For those who are interested, I've uploaded a couple pictures of the faulty solder joint to flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73955267@N00/sets/72157600316722784/

I was able to fix the problem by delicately applying a soldering iron to the joint.

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re: logic board failure path

2000 units, 1 fails every 2 months due to the video chipset problem, and you say that is unusual? While that is only 0.3% per year,
that may mean it is not a high percentage, but it certainly is indicative of a continuing problem. Over a 5 year lifespan, this works out to mean 1.5% of the machines will fail because of this. That's a LOT.

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1.5% of machines failing over

1.5% of machines failing over 5 years sounds like nothing to me. A lot would be 10% or more.

If 15,000 of the last *1 MILLION* laptops failed (1.5%), then Apple has no reason for a recall. It simply wouldn't be feasible. They just fix the ones that trickle in and call it warranty work. If 100,000 iBooks fail (10%), it's a much larger problem.

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Posts: 6
Re: iBook Logic Board Repair

I have been plagued with this problem twice, so I can tell you my research and experience is different. I used the shim fix by stacking small sheet metal squares in various places on the heat shield, and securing them with aluminum tape.

It worked for about a month of light use. Then the problem started up again. The problem really shouldn't be described as a logic board problem. The issue is a result of the case not being sturdy enough to protect the logic board from flexing. So if you never move your iBook and the Shim fix works for you, there is a good chance it will keep working for quite a while. However, if you continue to use it as a laptop, the shims will not stop the case from flexing, and eventually the problem is likely to reoccur.

For what it is worth, I bought my iBook in 2001. It under went two logic board repairs. I called Apple once about a year ago to complain about the third failure. Apple only had a record of one logic board being replaced. The guy who helped me couldn't do anything and said he'd have his supervisor call me back. I never received such a call, and didn't feel like the aggravation of calling Apple back and going through the same spew all over again. So about four months ago I tried the shim fix. When this failed about three months ago, I just set the ibook aside bitter about the whole experience.

About a month ago I wrote to Apple's CEO about the problem (in a polite manner). Within a week, somebody from Apple contacted me and offered me a special extension of the logic-board repair program. Apple send me a box and fixed the problem. I do not suspect Apple would do this for everybody. For instance, if you are not the one who bought the ibook originally, I would forget about it. Apple generally keeps very good records of repairs and customer contact. The representative knew about one of the repairs and my phone call, which she claimed somebody tried to call me back. Maybe someone did, but I didn't get the call. The point is: if you have had this problem in the past, are the original customer, and get in touch with the right people at Apple, Apple will correct the problem.

Ronda wrote:

I have been posting on Apple Discussions regarding G3 Dual USB iBook problems since before the iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program began in January of 2004.

I can't recall anybody reporting there that a shim fix failed, once it worked.

Also, Apple has been making a few exceptions to the three-year limitation under the iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program. When you call Apple, ask for Customer Relations (NOT Customer Service, they can't help) and ask that they make an exception to the three-year rule for you. Polite disappointment seems to get you further than angry demands.

Good luck to you all!

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Joined: Jul 22 2007
Posts: 1
clamps

I thought for sure my iBook G3 was dead until I used a clamp on the palm rest, and it came back to life. So, I am assuming its the same problem. I can't decided whether to do the jerry-rig thing by adding a shim, or just trashing the thing and getting a new notebook!!!!!! After finding out how many people have this same problem, I cannot believe how much I love the iBook, but there needs to be a better solution to this problem. Apple needs to step up to the plate, and help the thousands of people that are unhappy with their investment.

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Joined: Mar 23 2005
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Need some help

My PowerBook G4 boots up to sign on with the curser top left of screen, then freezes at sign on Icon? Safe booted "shift s and attempted to fsck. This was unsucessful, can anyone help me.

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Superior Reball

I am having a significant problem with Superior Reball. After reading the recommendations on this and other Mac support forums, I contacted Superior Reball for a quote. I got a near-instantaneous response from Dale, who faxed me a quote and then called me on the phone personally. I disassembled the laptop (quite an experience!) and sent the motherboard to Dale for repair. After a week, I emailed asking politely if they'd had a chance to look at the board. No response. I called. No response. I emailed again. Nothing. Finally, a week later, I actually got someone to pick up a phone there (it seems to almost always be a voice mailbox) and they told that the board was gone, that it was working and had shipped. A few days later I noted that my credit card hadn't been charged, so I called back and got the same guy again. This time, he tells me that he had been mistaken, it was in testing but would ship the following day. A few days later, I called to get a tracking number and was told that it had failed testing; that he was going to come in over the weekend and "catch up" on work, maybe trying to re-set the GPU or replace it with a spare GPU they had lying around. I heard nothing from them all the next week so I tried calling and emailing again. At this point, they do not respond to ANY of my calls or emails or faxes. It's as if they've fallen off the face of the earth. I was never pushy or rude about things but my tone has definitely changed in the last couple of days. At this point, my best guess is that they have no intention of repairing or returning the motherboard, let alone contacting me to let me know what's going on. I've had to replace the laptop when I could have just sent it into Apple for $300. Lesson learned. Do NOT contract for repairs with this company. You've been warned. Smile

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Joined: Jul 1 2005
Posts: 16
Re: Thermal pads

lqbweb wrote:
iantm wrote:

Try to get a set of the Apple thermal pads for the iBook G4. I've tried this approach on some of the units that do have this issue and it seems to help. Double up the thermal pad, and tighten the hard drive screws the best you can, also make sure you have the little nut that's towards the bottom of the heatsink nice and tight.

and isn't the same if you fix a washer between the screw and the heatsink, by this way you will exercise more preassure in the GPU chipset, Dont you think so? Besides You will get more disipation in the chipset due to the minor resistance in the middle layers.

Hmm. I don't see how putting a washer "between the screw and the heatsink" will "exercise more pressure in the GPU chipset"--a washer at that location will cause the heat sink to sit higher, not contacting the GPU chip at all. lqbweb might have meant some other location, but not described it well. Placing a METAL shim (for heat conductivity) beween the heat sink and the GPU (and applying some heat sink compound to the mating surfaces, like Arctic Silver, to further ensure heat transfer--that chip gets hot) seems the only way to apply more pressure to the GPU. Using extra thermal pads might help for a while, but since these are soft, they'll flatten out after a while, reducing the pressure back to its normal insufficient amount.

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Joined: Jul 1 2005
Posts: 16
Bad soldering

Most of the problems with the iBook G3 and G4 logic boards has been both a manufacturing problem (sometimes using lousy solder, and sometimes not using enough heat to melt the solder in place), and a design problem (the plastic housing of the laptop allows the logic board to flex too much when the laptop is carried around, cracking the already-lousy solder joints). This isn't a case of chip creep, contrary to Gadget Extremist's post, since these chips aren't in sockets--the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) chip on the underside of the iBook G3 logic board, and the topside of the iBook G4 logic board, develops cracks in the solder balls that connect the chip to the logic board. In the iBook G4, chip U28 (part number ISL 6225CA) also has at least two legs (pins 1 and 28) that are particularly poorly soldered. The clamp that some people use on the left-side palmrest of the iBook G4, is often able to press both chips back onto the logic board. I've been soldering since the late 60's, and I know what a cold (bad) solder joint looks like, and the micro-photographs of the iBook solder joints, linked to in this forum, are cold solder joints. Another case of cold solder joints on the iBook G4 logic board, but one that's less common than the other locations, is found on its hard drive's ribbon cable connector. The design flaw of the plastic housing allowing the logic boards to flex and crack these joints, MIGHT not have been a problem if Apple had more closely monitored the procedures at the factories where the logic boards were made, to make sure they were soldering things right. You could point the finger at Apple, or at the Chinese manufacturers, but it needs to be pointed at both. Not to knock China in general, but most of these boards are made in China, and we all know, especially with the recent product safety cases and counterfeits with products made in China, that some companies in China (probably just a few, but this includes some major ones) are more interested in making something that looks like the real thing, and/or is made of wrong/unsafe/cheap materials, than they are in stepping up to the world plate and making genuine products. China is in a rapid growth phase, in which money means more to some than quality, possibly because much of the country has been in poverty for so long. Then again, the money vs quality issue sometimes also applies to good old American Apple Inc. Maybe with enough embargos, rebukes, poking fun, etc., both parties will see that the world doesn’t like poorly-made products. It MIGHT eventually get Apple to acknowledge these problems earlier, and replace the bad logic boards with less hassle than many people experience in dealing with Apple, and MIGHT get Apple to send some inspectors to their manufacturing plants overseas a little more often, to MAYBE reduce the occurrence of these things happening as often as they do.

Pseudo-political rant over.

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alk
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 373
Re: future redemption head entirely

jeanmcgonagle wrote:

Additionally, these significant opinions you should skyrocket yes.
[snip]
Many pets rebate a living safeguard for these brains.

Classic!

Ever tried the "why" command in MATLAB? It actually makes more sense than this, but it isn't nearly as funny.

Peace,
Drew

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Joined: Sep 17 2007
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Superior Reball

I'm having the same issue as singj (August 29).

DO NOT USE SUPERIOR REBALL! They are non-responsive and I'm sure I'm out the logic board.

Bob

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Joined: Sep 26 2007
Posts: 1
this is all great information, but (g3 700 ibook mysteries)

i need to find out how to open the case!

does anyone know of documentation ( with pics preferably Wink ):?:?:?

i have the g3 iBook 700.

history:
previously, i managed to get it open enough to reset (press down) on the main chips, and this trick worked twice, but it has been a long time and i have forgotten what i did to get access to most of the logic board!

minimally:
i want to get the data from the hard drive. i just upgraded to g5 iMac after my third and apparently final g3 crash. interesting, the crash came after i started carrying it up & down stairs.

more history:
i originally thought it was from heat that the board may have warped a little, so 're-seating' chips was my best guess approach, but i see now that i was only in the ballpark).

your suggestions would be most helpful, thanks!

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edit: I just found two guides:

here:
uk.geocities.com/ibookupgrade/index.html

and here:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G4-12-Inch/Bottom-Shield/83/6/

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