super SE/30 A/UX boot problems

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catmistake's picture
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I finally was able to burn a good copy of A/UX 3.0 install CD using Panther, and I am having troubles.

I have an SE/30 with a IIfx ROM and 128MB RAM (I haven't put the Daystar IIsi 030 in yet). I have another SE/30 motherboard with the SE/30 ROM and 8mb RAM.

When I try to install A/UX with the IIfx ROM, the system boots off the floppy, then begins to start up off the CD, then goes to a grey screen and stays there forever.

With the SE/30 ROM, installation goes very smoothly, everything installs, the machine reboots, the kernal recompiles, then it boots again, and then the A/UX startup goes, and it boots into A/UX just fine.

If I shutdown and swap the boards again, the machine boots with the IIfx ROM into Sys 7, then, when A/UX tries to start up, it goes back to that grey screen.

I have tried installing Sys software for the SE/30, for the IIfx, AND for all macs, but when using the IIfx ROM, it goes to that grey screen when trying to start A/UX.

Does anyone know what I have missed? Am I forgetting something? What am I doing wrong?

This problem has me at a stand still! Please Help!
Thanks.

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Eudimorphodon's picture
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Why IIfx ROM?

If you're running A/UX, there isn't any particular advantage in using the IIfx ROM. While it might be useful with running System 7, (you won't need "Mode32" to use all your RAM) A/UX runs in 32 bit mode by definition. The "Dirty ROM" won't make a difference.

My guess about what's happening is the A/UX loader is looking at the ROM for a value to identify the type/class of machine it's on, and when it sees "IIfx" it's enabling a driver/feature that the SE/30 hardware doesn't support, and it's crashing. (The IIfx has some weird serial hardware in it that's unique to it and the Quadra 900/950. Plain MacOS never used any of it, but A/UX may well have. That could be your culprit right there.)

The simple solution would seem to be to just use the SE/30-rommed board.

--Peace

catmistake's picture
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IIfx ROM for OS 8

Thanks for the quick response, I didn't know that about A/UX or the IIfx ROM...

I was hoping to have a Sys 8 partition some day, but I don't really care too much about that.

I will try it with all the RAM and the SE/30 ROM....

I suppose NetBSD will see all the RAM without the IIfx ROM too?

Lemmie know,
Thanks!

Oh, yeah, one more thing... I've read that A/UX can be configured to boot without the gui, just a command line on the screen...
How is that done, I can't find any directions.

Thanks.

Jon's picture
Jon
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To use the NetBSD bootloader

To use the NetBSD bootloader program, your Mac must be in 32-bit mode, either through 32-bit clean ROMs, or by using Mode32 (as you need to do with your SE/30) Using IIsi ROMs might work, as might IIci ROMs, but the IIfx ROMs might give you the same sort of trouble as A/UX. NetBSD does look at the ROms when it boots, it's one of the first message it prints when it boots, but I'm not entierly sure what it does with it. It may do the exact same thing that it seems A/U is doing and try to initialize hardware that is not on the SE/30 and cause a crash.

Jon.

No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity. - Anton Szandor LaVey in 1988 (There is a certain irony in this quote... Tongue)

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catmistake's picture
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So, what are IIfx ROMs good for?

Am I right, then, in assuming the only thing you can do with a IIfx ROM in an SE/30 is get it to run System 8.1? That sucks.

Is it within the realm of possibility that either A/UX or NetBSD could be hacked to ignore the specific stuff in the IIfx ROMs that would cause a crash on an SE/30? That is, tell it to ignore the initialization of everything but the actual existent hardware? (Not that it should be done... one only so much time to waste... )

Also, I have been searching now for about 2 hours. The FAQ doesn't explain how, just says you can do it.
I realize A/UX is unsupported, but there is so much out there...
How do I get it to boot without a gui?
How do I boot into single-user mode?
Is that the same thing? Is there a way to boot without a gui into multi-user mode?

I should know this stuff... I actually have real A/UX docs in a box in storage somewhere in another state. I guess I still own the license. That's what I get for leaving school right when things were getting interesting. (I just discovered Allen Briggs was a year behind me at VA Tech CS when I dropped out to go work for the printing industry. STUPID STUPID STUPID)

catmistake's picture
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All the RAM not available

Well, with the SE/30 ROM, and 128MB RAM, A/UX boots fine. But there is only 16mb of RAM available. If, under the apple menu, I choose "About this Macintosh" it tells me that there is 131,072K of built-in memory, but it also says that the total memory is 16,384, and it won't let me use more than that.

ANYBODY, How do I get access to all of the RAM?

tmtomh's picture
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I had an SE/30 with a IIsi RO

I had an SE/30 with a IIsi ROM and it ran A/UX very nicely.

But a IIsi is very, very similar to an SE/30 hardware-wise, so I suppose A/UX didn't mind.

Matt

catmistake's picture
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IIsi ROM

When I couldn't get A/UX to boot with a IIfx ROM, I swapped it out for a IIsi ROM to see if it would work... I got the same grey screen as with the IIfx ROM right as A/UX is on the cusp of launching.

How did you install A/UX? With the IIsi ROM installed? or did you install in, then swap in the IIsi ROM?

What version of A/UX was it?

tmtomh's picture
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I wish I could remember. I be

I wish I could remember. I believe I had A/UX installed first, then I obtiained a IIsi ROM. When I first put in the IIsi ROM, the unit wouldn't boot -- I got a scrambled screen upon startup. Then I opened up the SE/30, re-seated the ROM chip, and I was good to go.

I also had an ethernet card in the PDS slot. The machine had 20MB of RAM. Which reminds me of the fact that there are recommendations out there for how to arrange RAM in the SE/30's two banks of four. Perhaps you could experiment with taking out half the RAM to see if that makes a difference (I know it works with the full 128MB and the SE/30 ROM, but you never know...).

The only other difference I can think of was that I had A/UX 3.1 installed. I installed 3.0 from the CD, then updated to 3.1, which I believe is the end of the line for the SE/30. (IIRC you're not supposed to run the 3.1.1 updater on an SE/30, so 3.1 is it.)

Sorry I can't be of more help here -- it "just worked" for me.

Matt

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"About this Macintosh" memory limit

Just so you know, the free memory in the "About this Macintosh" menu only indicates the amount of memory allocated to the classic MacOS virtual machine. That's why the "Built-in Memory" reading is higher then available memory.

I made note of this here:

http://www.applefritter.com/ui/aux/page2.html

My Quadra 650 also defaulted to 16MB, out of the 72MB installed.

Honestly, I don't recall how I changed that setting. I think it may of been under the same control panel that "Virtual Memory" is hidden under in plain System 7. (Only accessable when logged in as root)

This is another case where the ROM installed in your SE/30 should be irrelevent.

--Peace

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Increasing the memory dedicated to Mac OS environment under A/UX

Thanks,
I had come across your page not to long ago... it gives me hope... but I have a ways to go as I haven't done :
"we're going to pretend that you've already gotten everything set up, including configuring the kernel for Ethernet and TCP/IP, and just created a user account so you're not logging in as root constantly."

anything yet... I am looking for instructions, there is a manual in A/UX install that I haven't finished yet...

"A/UX allows you to set how much RAM you want to dedicate to the Mac OS environment."

I thought it was something like this, and I saw the memory control panel, but I thought it was virtual memory I was adjusting... turns out you are right, I was able to increase my Mac OS environment memory to 64mb... things running a little smoother now.

Thanks so much!

Now, if anyone has links to pages explaining how to add users and configure the kernel for networking, please give them up!

Eudimorphodon's picture
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Docbooks

If you don't have the paper documentation, there should be some "DocBook" files on the CD that do a reasonably good job of explaining all the basic network and user setup. (The FAQ really isn't that helpful for that.)

It's been years since I touched A/UX, so I really don't remember much of the fine details myself. I don't remember if there was a GUI for adding users or not, for instance, although I do remember the basic *layout* of the user directories. The kernel/network configurator was pretty simple, bascially just a long game of 20 questions. You'll need to assign a static IP for the machine on your network, of course, as A/UX doesn't support DHCP or BOOTP.

--Peace

catmistake's picture
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which ethernet module?

Hey, I found the modules in

/etc/install.d/boot.d

and
found this
ao - Built-in interface for Apple Ethernet.
as - Apple Ethernet NB Card (a half-length card).
ae6 - Apple EtherTalk NB Card ( a full-length card).
ac - Apple Ethernet NB Twisted-Pair Card.

here: http://www.geo.tu-freiberg.de/docs/apple/aux/aws95_readme.html

so...

which one works on the SE/30 with the IIsi Asante ethernet card (Mac Con)?

Anyone? Thanks!

PS ok, in the Faq it says:
Now A/UX includes drivers for the Apple EtherNet card (they aren't installed by default though), but they don't work with most of the 3rd party cards except for the 3Com "EtherLink NB", the Asante "MacCon" and the StarNet Networking cards. They are 100% register compatible with their Apple counterparts, so you can use Apple's 'ae' driver with them.

Does this mean the module I should load/add to the kernel is ae6? Is this going to work on an SE/30 (its not NuBus)?

I'd like to avoid messing up the kernel and having to reinstall A/UX.