External SCSI HDDs

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Hello,

As this is my first ever post, I would be grateful for any suggestions you may have.

I own a number of external SCSI-2 hard drives (Seagate, Western Digital & IBM), which used to work with an old Apple Mac (beige desktop G3) via onboard SCSI, in OS 9.2.2 and early OSX; and still work when attached to a PC in Windows XP.

I am now using an Apple Mac G4 (MDD) with an Adaptec 2906 SCSI adapter in OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4.8, and none of the external drives appear in Drive Setup or Disk Utility; I also have a Tape Drive, installed in the same external SCSI bay as the hard drives, which works fine!

None of the individual devices is terminated, but the external SCSI bay has two (Centronics) connections); one is connected to the cable, and I have tried both Active and Passive terminators on the other. I have also had the entire external SCSI bay tested on another PC and both the tape drive and HDDs appear to be working.

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks

George

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eeun's picture
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From what I've read, Tiger se

From what I've read, Tiger seems to have some issues playing nice with the 2906 card. One post I came across had someone juggling the scsi device order around in order to get their scanner to show up under Tiger.

Silly question perhaps, but have you installed the most recent OS X 2906 drivers from Adaptec?

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
Posts: 14
External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Thanks for your reply.

I have installed drivers from here - http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/support/scsi/2900/AVA-2906/ - for both OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4.8.

Thanks again

George

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I have numerous Adaptec cards

I have numerous Adaptec cards and none of them are supported under mac OS X 10.3 or later. Best thing would be to buy a cheap ATTO card off ebay.

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External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Thanks for your reply.

I already have an ATTO Express PCI SCSI card, with similar results; the HDDs do not appear in OS 9.2.2 or OS 10.4.8.

Thanks again

George

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Do you have them terminated a

Do you have them terminated and IDs set properly?

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try formatting the drives as FAT on the pc

formats of a drive can do strange things, even when just showing up under hardware. The other thing is that you NEED to have a terminator block on the end with Adaptec cards (well, at least mine do) and I don't think I had to have them terminated on the G3 Beige that I have (but I don't recall if that was true or not)
If all else fails, try looking on Adaptec's site for Documents relating to the setup of the card. another thing is to check the cable connections. Make sure they are seated right, and also check to see if all the pins are in the connectors.

Some hard drives have termination jumpers on the small logic boards (hardware driver boards?) that run the Hard drive. You might want to make sure that the drives are not terminated or that you have several terminations through-out the chain. That might cause problems.

make sure it is terminated at the end and ONLY the end. Sometimes a card will terminate itself at the card, I don't know if that is true on all cards (Judging from reading a topic here on the jackhammer card, it seemed that the card had to be terminated as well as the end)

See, this is why I don't mess with SCSI Tongue it's just too much of a head ache. Once you have it set up, it's fine, but fiddle with it, and it will give you hell all over again :\

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
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External SCSI HDDs

Thanks for the question, let me know if I am doing anything wrong...

I have only one external SCSI bay and no internal SCSI devices; the external SCSI bay has room for two devices, one tape drive and one (removeable) SCSI HDD, I have 5 different drives which can fit this.

As I mentioned none of the individual devices is ternimated, but the external SCSI bay
has two (Centronics) connections; one is connected to the cable, and I have tried both Active and Passive terminators on the other. I have also had the entire external SCSI bay tested on another PC and both the tape drive and HDDs appear to be working, so I think my termination is correct.

Each of the 5 HDDs is set to a different SCSI ID (1-5), with the tape drive at ID 0 (which the manufacterer's advise); I have tried each drive indivually, with or without the tape drive connected.

Any suggestions gratefully received, thanks again.

George

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
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External SCSI HDDs

Hi,

Thanks for the advice.

All of the drives have been formatted as FAT on a PC, apart from one; which is NTFS, again from a PC.

I have also had the entire external SCSI bay tested on another PC and both the tape drive and HDDs appear to be working, so I think my termination is correct.

Thanks again.

George

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Joined: Jun 18 2005
Posts: 196
SCSI

Hello George,
Just to narrow down the problem , have you tried installing any of the drives on the internal card buss ?
Shooting in the dark here...

Dave

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
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External SCSI HDDs

Hi Dave,

No, I haven't tried installing any of the drives internally; it's an idea, although it would make them less removeable.

Just to keep you all informed, I'm now trying the ATTO Express PCI PSC SCSI card; so far the Mac will not boot up at all in OS 9.2.2 with the external bay attached, and boots in OS 10.4.8 but does not see the HDDs or tape drive.

At least the tape drive worked with the Adaptec 2906 SCSI card.

Thanks

George

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Is the ATTO stock from a Beig

Is the ATTO stock from a Beige G3? IF it is it won't work in OS X because it doesn't have ATTO firmware. You need to flash it. Does OS X see the ATTO at all in system profiler? You sure your SCSI cables are plugged all the way in?

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SCSI

Again , I was just troubleshooting.
If adrive was recognised on the internal buss but not external that would help solve some issues.

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
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External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Just to update you all, without a great deal of success with the Adaptec 2906; I am attempting to use a card clearly labelled ATTO Express PCI PSC (v1.2).

In OS 9.2.2 System Profiler shows the following -
Card Type: SCSI
Card Name: Apple53C875Card
Card Model: NCR,875
Card ROM: Not Available
Card Revision: 4,120
Card Vendor ID: 1000

If I try to flash the card, using the Express PCI PSC/DC Updater (1.6.6U), selecting either option 1: update only older firmware or option 2: update all firmware; the software responds no Express PCI Pro cards were updated.

Also, when I launch the Express Pro-Tools (configuration application), the two busses are visible; Bus 0: Symbios Slot X5L Rev F, Bus 1: SDAP Device Rev 0100.

However, if I connect the external SCSI bay previously tested on a PC and given a thumbs-up the Mac does not boot-up into OS 9.2.2; I have tried with two different cables.

In OSX (10.4.Cool System Profiler shows NCR,875 SCSI PCI Slot-5, with the following details -
Name: Apple53C875Card
Type: SCSI
Bus: PCI
Slot: 5
Vendor ID: 0x1000
Device ID: 0x000F
Revision ID: 0x0004

When using the ATTO configuration tool (v3.07), basic information shows -
Name: PCI1000
Device Type: SCSI Bus Controller
Bus Type: PCI
Location: Slot-5
Driver Name: /System/Library/Extensions/AppleSym8xx.kext
Driver Version: 1.20b2

But only one SCSI bus seems to be visable; and again, when I select flash, the software responds this device does not support firmware access. Although I can boot up which the external SCSI bay attached, the SCSI card is no longer visible in System Profiler.

I intend to take the external SCSI bay to be tested again, just to be sure; and I'll also connect one of the drives internally, to troubleshoot.

Once again, any advice much appreciated.

Thanks

George

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Right, the ATTO card needs to

Right, the ATTO card needs to be flashed over to ATTO firmware before you can do anything with it in OS X. To flash it you can do 1 of 2 things, put it in a PC and flash it with the ATTO Firmware updater, through DOS. Or try this...

" Hi Mike !
Firstly, I'd like to thank you for your great site !
But I write you to let know one think I've juste discovered and experienced. I don't know if you knew this.
I've a PowerComputing PTP225 (very great machine !) and received from a friend an Apple UltraWide SCSI Card coming from a Beige G3 Server. And I suppose you know it's an Atto ExpressPCI PSC with an Apple ROM.

I wanted to use the Atto Express ProTools to fine the tuning of the card with my different SCSI peripherals, but it was impossible (no Atto card found). So I tried to flash the card with the Atto firmware flasher. No luck though, "no Atto card found" too Smile
So here is the method :

Download the ExpressPCI PSC flasher (1.64U at this moment).
[Use the support/downloads link at www.attotech.com-Mike
Download the MacOS X SCSICard Updater (on Versiontracker e.g.).
[I could not find it at VT, but the FAQ here has a previous direct download link to the update here that still worked as of today-Mike]
Make a copy of the Mac OS X SCSI Card Updater application.

Open ExpressPCI Pro Updater 1.6.4U with ResEdit, open the "firm" ressource, copy the ressource ID 128 named "Firmware". Open Mac OS X SCSI Card Updater with ResEdit too, open the "firm" ressource, paste what you copied. Replace the old ressource ID 128, rename it with empty name (to be sure, eventhough I don't think it change something). Close and save de modifications.

Run Mac OS X SCSI Card Updater, flash the card.
And voila, you've got a "full" Atto ExpressPCI PSC !

I've reflashed it with the ExpressPCI Pro Updater 1.6.4U to be sure it's good, and there isn't any problem. Now I can use the Atto Express ProTools as if I had bought an Atto retail version.

I hope this will be useful for someones,
Mike. " (taken from here... http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/SCSI/atto_oem_flashrom_tip.html )

Oh and BTW that Mac OS X SCSI card updater can be found here...

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/4965

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Posts: 14
External SCSI HDDs

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I'm happy to give it a go; unfortunatly the link to the Mac OS X SCSI card updater does not download, is this one correct -

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25176, although I now know this does not work either; actually the Mac OS X SCSI updater is very hard to find!

I would prefer not to flash the ATTO card on a PC, as this will mean removing a working SCSI card from the PC and installing the ATTO card, presumably installing ATTO PC drivers before flashing the card, then removing the ATTO and reinstalling the orginal PC SCSI card.

Rather than this, does anyone happen to have a working link for the Mac OSX SCSI card updater?

Thanks again

George

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Joined: Nov 5 2006
Posts: 14
External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Just to let you know...

I have now found and downloaded (thanks to Mike from xlr8yourmac) the Mac OSX SCSI Card Updater and taken the following steps in OS 9.2.2 -

1: Open the ExpressPCI Pro Updater 1.6.6U with Resedit, open the "firm" resource; copy the resource ID 128 named "Firmware".
2: Open the Mac OS X SCSI Card Updater with Resedit, open the "firm" resource; paste what was copied, replace the old resource ID 128, rename it with an empty name.
Although you can rename this with an empty name, it has to have an ID number or be deleted.
3: Close and save.

I have tried this giving the old ID 128 an empty name, an ID of 0 and (as it's a copy of the Mac OS X SCSI Card Updater) even deleting; after closing and saving, then running the software responds "there is no flashable device".

The SCSI Card is visable, as described above, in OS 9.2.2.

Any advice is appreciated.

George

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Your in the same corner I was

Your in the same corner I was in. I ended up just doing it with DOS.

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External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Thanks for replying, do you have any instructions on how to do this in DOS; the only utilities I can find (http://www.attotech.com/software/app1.html?#windows) are for windows, there are no Flash Files for the ATTO Express PCI PSC, and they note: Flashing with the ATTO Configuration Tool is not supported for the ExpressPCI UL3D/UL3S/DC/PSC?

Thanks again

George

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Your going to want this...

Your going to want this...

https://www.attotech.com/software/driver7.html

Just click the pc version and do what i said in the PM i sent you earlier.

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External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

And thanks again for replying, I'll give this a go first thing tomorrow!

Just two final questions before I do - is there any other software (ATTO Firmware Updater) that I need; and do I need to create a DOS boot using a floppy disc, or can I use a DOS window?

Thanks again

George

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Apple/ATTO card already flashed

That card is already flashed with the latest Apple firmware, explaining why you can't use the Apple flasher to re-do it with the ATTO firmware.

Just figured you'd like to know. I have the same situation with one of my PSC cards, can't use the Apple flasher. My other card still had the old Apple firmware so that one I was able to flash to ATTO firmware.

Flash on a PC eh . . . ? But if it has the wintel firmware, can it then be flashed to the Mac version?

dan k

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External SCSI HDDs

Hello,

Does this mean I reached a dead-end with this SCSI card?

Although it's labelled ATTO Express PCI PSC, it's seen as an Apple card in OS 9.2.2 with two SCSI buses, only one is visable in OS 10.4.8; and neither seems to work, in either OS!

Should I try the Adaptec 2906 again, which didn't work last time I tried; and isn't even really supported?

Although flashing through a PC rather than a Mac does seem to be confirmed (http://www.os9forever.com/SCSICard.html), please let me know what you think, any advice much appreciated.

Thanks again

George

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The card has both PC and Mac

The card has both PC and Mac firmware on it. Using DOS to rewrite the firmware gives your choices to rewrite either just the windows, just the mac or both. i used the both option and my card is working perfect. IIRC i had to use a bootable floppy to do this trick.

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External SCSI HDDs

Hi,

Thanks for that.

I'll give it a go first thing!

Thanks again

George

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Is all this worth it?

Boy, I'll tell you. I just get tired from reading through all this. If you're dealing with SCSI-2, my suggestion is to dump these old SCSI cards and buy an Adaptec 29160N PCI SCSI card. I picked up a couple of them on eBay last year for about $25 each. It has two channels--an internal SCSI-3 Ultra 160 and an external HD50 SCSI-2 channel. Works like a charm, recognizes my external Centronics SCSI HD and my SCSI scanner, no problem in both OS9 or OS 10.3.9 while my main internal harddrives connected to the same card are flying at SCSI-3. Don't know about Tiger. The technology on the 29160 is much better and more versatile than the older cards, and you'll also have the option of adding internal SCSI-3. I believe you can even buy the PC version and easily flash it to a Mac ROM. Might save you a lot more time and headache and offer you room for much more powerful growth.

Just did a search on eBay, "29160n mac." There's one there right now that ends today, $2.99 starting bid, no bids (the seller should probably give me a commission now). I've seen a few Mac cards up for auction that didn't say Mac in the title. Those always sold for the cheapest.

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Adaptecs are not supported un

Adaptecs are not supported under Mac OS X 10.3 and above.

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Adaptecs are not supported un

Adaptecs are not supported under Mac OS X 10.3 and above. Not to mention Adaptec stopped updating the drivers for Mac.

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External SCSI HDDs

Hello again,

Just to keep you all informed, thanks to protocol6v, I have been able to flash my ATTO ExpressPCI PSC with Mac firmware through DOS; using the following steps -

1: Create a DOS boot floppy disc - put a floppy disc in the PC, right-click on the floppy drive and select format, check the "create an MS-DOS startup disk" option.
2: Copy the DOS firmware updater - run the ATTO driver executable and allow it to expand to a directory; copy the the expanded DOS folder to the DOS boot floppy.
3: With the ATTO ExpressPCI PSC card installed but no devices attached, and the DOS boot disc in the floppy drive, restart the PC and allow it to boot from the DOS boot floppy.
4: In DOS, go to the DOS folder on the A: (floppy) drive, using CD (change directory); type "flash".
5: When asked to update for MAC and WIN answer "Y"

I then returned the newly flashed ATTO SCSI card to the Mac, where it is now recognised by System Profiler and the ATTO configuration tools in both OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4.8 as such; to confirm this I reflashed in OS9 using the ATTO software with no problems!

Unfornuately I still seem to have problems with the external SCSI bay, OS 9.2.2 will not boot with it attached; and OS 10.4.8 will boot, but does not see any SCSI devices. I have tried two separate cables, with no difference; so I have arranged to take the bay to another Mac over the weekend.

I will report back with the results.

Thanks again

George

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Re: External SCSI HDDs

gtxcom wrote:

Unfornuately I still seem to have problems with the external SCSI bay, OS 9.2.2 will not boot with it attached; and OS 10.4.8 will boot, but does not see any SCSI devices. I have tried two separate cables, with no difference; so I have arranged to take the bay to another Mac over the weekend.
George

I have experienced that before. generally it's a broken trace either in a chip, or on the board. If the internal works, it means something is wrong with the card's traces (or chip if there are two SCSI Controllers on it) and it generally either putting up with it, or throwing it out and getting a new one.

My Beige G3 did that. The internal SCSI Chain went out, but the External worked. After about a month, the SCSI System died altogether. So if that is the case, you will be looking for another card soon.

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There could also be something

There could also be something wrong with the drive enclosure you are using. DO the drives spin up? Do you have a volt meter you could test the voltage of the Cases powersupply with? Make sure all the SCSI cables are connected properly in the case, also make sure, if it is a removable case, that no pins are bent on either inside the case or on the external cable you are using.

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What do you mean by supported?

"Adaptecs are not supported under Mac OS X 10.3 and above."

Well, that depends on what you mean by "supported." No SCSI manufacturer, as far as I know, provides SCSI support (utilities) for OS 10.3 and above. That doesn't mean that those SCSI cards don't work in OS 10.3. Apple supports SCSI in Panther by including drivers for ATTO and Adaptec SCSI cards in the OS 10.3 System Extensions. Go see, they're all right there, at least, most of the ones that were associated with macs in recent history. When I have problems that require a utility--like a non-mounting drive--I simply boot back into OS9 and fix it and then return to Panther--problem solved. I have no experience with Tiger, so I don't know if the extensions are there or not.

That 29160N sold for $2.99. I'd lay odds it would have solved this problem if the problem is not in the drive bay itself.

I just had a conversation a couple of days ago with the owner of one of the top video production companies in this state. He said that he had invested in new Macs, but found that the SATA drives did not perform as needed for his video work and that he was advised to go back to his G4 SCSI setup, so there you go.

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I have two 29160 cards and th

I have two 29160 cards and they both kernel panic my G4, G5, and G3. I have had these cards exchanged and still had the same problem. This is iunder Tiger though. I then discovered that Adaptec had stopped making drivers for the Mac. I also discovered that Retrospect no longer supported Adaptec cards. I then called apple and they told me that they hadn't updated the driver since 10.2 and that they are not going to be updating it in the near future.

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