Bringing a B&W back to life

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 21

Recently I picked up a partially scavanged PM Blue & White (Rev. 1) for next to nothing. Looks like whoever had it pulled out everything that went in a socket - RAM, video card, modem ... One other interesting thing, the original ZIF module has been replaced with a 233 mhz mudule, so I'm guessing somebody was using the parts to upgrade a Beige G3 ?? Naturally, the person I got this poor thing from says it "won't boot." I said, "well, it'll be a new project for me ..."

I have not owned a B&W before. My question is, what is the minimum list of parts I will need so that this thing *should* boot so I can fiddle with it and make sure it works. After that I can decide what I really want to do with it.

I figure I will have to get a video card and some RAM. Is there no on-board RAM on a B&W? Are ther any other necessary items that may have been yanked that I may not have noticed right off?

Just for testing purposes, will I have to get another ZIF? If the B&W will at least boot with the Beige G3 ZIF in it, I could decide later how fast I want to go. If not I'll have invest in a bottom-o-the-line ebay ZIF just to do tests.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Bruce - in Orlando
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rael9's picture
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Joined: Dec 26 2003
Posts: 215
Hmmm...

Well, here are a couple of links to jumper block charts for the B&W. You have to set the speed of the processor/bus using these.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/OC.html
http://eshop.macsales.com/Tech/Load_Page.cfm?page=bwjumpers.html

Problem is, the lowest setting is 300. The 233 *might* work, but only if it isn't adverse to a little overclocking (to 300Mhz).

You will also need RAM and a video card. Neither are built-in. Oh, and a PRAM battery. That should about do it.

James M. Baker
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[url=http://rael.webhop.org"]My site[/url]

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DanR's picture
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Joined: Jan 28 2004
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66 Mhz

I knew someone who had a 233 in a B&W, I forget just why... there was something said about using those same jumper blocks to set the bus speed down to 66 Mhz so it would work.

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 211
I "underclocked" a B&W last y

I "underclocked" a B&W last year using a G3 266MHz ZIF so that I could flash the firmware before installing a G4. The jumper settings are here somewhere:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems.html

Phil

MacTrash_1's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
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Re: Hmmm...

rael9 wrote:

Well, here are a couple of links to jumper block charts for the B&W. You have to set the speed of the processor/bus using these.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/OC.html
http://eshop.macsales.com/Tech/Load_Page.cfm?page=bwjumpers.html

Problem is, the lowest setting is 300. The 233 *might* work, but only if it isn't adverse to a little overclocking (to 300Mhz).
James M. Baker
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Computer Nerd
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[url=http://rael.webhop.org"]My site[/url]

Beware that most of the 233 G3 CPU's overclock to 266 with no problems but 300 is usually unstable. Your milage may vary from chip to chip. You could try if and see if it boots for testing, and if you put a fan on the CPU heatsink for extra cooling it would help keep it from overheating.

Krow,
http://krowmagnum.4mg.com/index.html

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 21
Thanks - this helps a lot

Actually, that first link to the Accelerate Yosemite page has the jumper settings for 66 mhz bus right there. Looks like I'll need 66 mhz with a ratio of 3.5 to get 233 mhz. I'll try those settings out, but mainly I'm just looking to boot up a few times to test the B&W out before spending any serious money on it. Still, looks like I'd better get crackin' and find a video card and RAM. And I guess I'll go ahead and replace that PRAM battery too, just to avoid any potential problems.

Thanks for the help,

Bruce - in Orlando

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 21
Still bringing a B&W back to life

Hi, I'm back. I got some RAM and a video card (from the LEM Swaplist). I also used the jumper settings on the Accelerate page to set the bus to 66 mhz and the speed to 233 mhz. Installed a nice fresh PRAM battery too.

The good news is that the computer starts and give a nice friendly BONG so I assume the settings are okay.
The bad news is I'm getting no video - can't get much further on this project until I solve that problem ....

I have checked the hard drive by putting it in my 6500, and found that it's working properly with OS 9.0 installed (yes, 9.0).

Since the computer gives a nice BONG I assume the RAM is okay.

This kind of leaves the video card as a prime suspect, eh? As I said in my first post, this is my first B&W. The seller for the video card described it as "an ATI Rage 128 Pro AGP model video card." I asked him to confirm this is the right card for a B&W, he said yes. So now that I seem to be having problems I guess I need to ask you all - is this really the right card? PS it says on it "P/N 1025740700 001393".

If this ain't the right card I'll need to know what I really should be looking for, and if it is the right one I'll need some ideas as to why I'm getting no video.

Thanks in advance for all help.

Bruce - in Orlando

GEOS's picture
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Umm, the B&W uses a PCI video

Umm, the B&W uses a PCI video card, not AGP

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Eudimorphodon's picture
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Re: Still bringing a B&W back to life

Bruce wrote:

This kind of leaves the video card as a prime suspect, eh? As I said in my first post, this is my first B&W. The seller for the video card described it as "an ATI Rage 128 Pro AGP model video card." I asked him to confirm this is the right card for a B&W, he said yes. So now that I seem to be having problems I guess I need to ask you all - is this really the right card? PS it says on it "P/N 1025740700 001393".

I can look at the part number on the Rage 128 I yanked out of my B&W, but... yeah, as already noted, that machine takes a PCI card. Of course, the slots are physically different, so you must have the right card unless you were really creative in jamming it in.

It probably shouldn't matter, but did you put the card in the first (short) slot on the motherboard? It's supposed to go in that one, not one of the 64 bit slots.

(Again, I can't see why it would matter, but I thought I'd note it.)

--Peace

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 21
Okay, that explains a lot ......

..... but actually, I didn't have any trouble at all putting this card into the first (short) slot. It goes right in - but it does seem to be made for a different slot, in the sense that the pins on the card are in this configuration:

IIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIII

whereas the slot is like this:

IIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

So the part number might be a help, even though I understand from the Acceleratee Your Mac site that there is more than one video card that will potentially fit.

Thanks again all,

Bruce - in Orlando

Eudimorphodon's picture
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Re: Okay, that explains a lot ......

Bruce wrote:

..... but actually, I didn't have any trouble at all putting this card into the first (short) slot. It goes right in - but it does seem to be made for a different slot, in the sense that the pins on the card are in this configuration:

IIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIII

whereas the slot is like this:

IIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

PCI slots come in two voltages, 5v and 3.3v, and likewise, cards can come in either of those two flavors, or a "universal" flavor. The variations are distinguished by the location of the slots in the connector. So... essentially what you're seeing is that the card is "Universal", while the slot is 3.3v. So in other words, there's no problem.

An AGP card has a physically completely incompatible card edge, so you'd know if you had one. Maybe if you pressed *really* hard you could get it into one of the 64 bit slots. ;^>

The only "tricky" thing about the short slot in a B&W is it runs at 66Mhz, while most generic PCI cards don't work at anything over 33Mhz. I suppose it's *remotely* possible that you found an oddball PCI Rage 128 card that's only spec'ed for a 33Mhz bus, but I doubt it. (The OEM card for the B&W and "Yikes" G4 was 66Mhz tolerant, and I imagine most/all Mac-compatible 128 cards are exact equivilents.)

You can try it in one of the long slots, where it'll be slower, but I doubt that's your problem. Do you have another Mac with PCI slots you can test the card in?

--Peace

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Posts: 21
Re: Okay, that explains a lot ......

Item #1: So that I understand clearly - you're saying that (despite whatever the seller told me) this really is a PCI card? Well, that would at least be a step in the right direction.

Item #2: Let me throw one other thing in here - this card has a 3-row 15-pin connector on it for an ordinary PC-type VGA monitor. Since as I say this is my first B&W I just assumed that, well, this meant that a B&W takes a standard VGA monitor. That's what I've been trying to plug into it. But could it mean instead that this guy sold me a video card that's not Mac-compatible??

Item #3: Yes in fact I have a PM 6360 and two 6500's, which take PCI cards. I'm so foolish - I hadn't thought about testing this thing out on those machines. If you could please clarify Item #2 for me, I'll proceed with further tests.

Thanks again!

Bruce - in Orlando

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Still trying to get an answer

Still trying to get an answer to these last three questions. Anyone?

rael9's picture
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Joined: Dec 26 2003
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PCI vid card

1) Yup, it's PCI. AGP slot connectors look very different from PCI cards. They have many more connection points.

2) At this point in Mac tech, Macs use regular VGA connections, they have since the B&W came out, in fact. It is possible that the seller gave you a PC version of the card, so...

3) Go ahead and test it in one of those machines. It should work fine if it does in fact work.

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