Re-installing OS 9 without an optical drive

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unknown1's picture
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I have been fooling with a bunch of OS 9 software off the web (I am downloading everything I can find before it is gone). Now I get a warning that my computer can't sleep because some system software is mising, please reinstall your system! Of course without a working optical drive I've got to figure something out.

I found an old copy of PC MacLAN and can access Mac volumes from the PC but can't seem to read Mac CDs. I was thinking of copying the OS 9.1 install CD to a USB flash card and seeing if somehow I could install from there to the Pismo.

I also found an old copy of Dave for the Mac so I could use the PCs and printers on our network from Big Z Boy, but it is also on a Mac CD, so that won't work either. Any =CHEAP= suggestions?

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More information please ...

What model is your Mac? (iBook, PowerBook, Power Mac, iMac) Be specific and tell us what you can about the case design, color, etc.

What's the processor speed (in MHz) ?

Does it have Firewire? Do you have access to a Firewire optical drive? (buy, rent, borrow)

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USB flash

I believe that would work.

Do you have any idea what software is missing? You might want to try the old standby that is the safe-boot (boot with shift held down), this sometimes will shut down trouble causing extensions, if it works, you can use the extensions manager to see what is enabled/disabled, and try to find out what the trouble is (disabling everything that you've downloaded, and adding them one by one is an annoying, but almost certain way to find the trouble if it boots in safe mode, but not with extensions enabled (or doesn't sleep, etc.)) (of course, since yours boots, and just recommends a reinstall, you could do the extensions troubleshooting without the safe boot, just boot into OS 9, and see if disabling extensions with the extensions manager helps. (I would guess that you've accidentally drag/dropped an extension into a folder either outside the Extensions folder of the System Folder, or into a subfolder within Extensions, and all you'd have to do is find where (not as hard as it might seem, even without Spotlight))

You also might consider just making an image of the disk in some format you can make/mount (I would use Disk Utility, and .dmg, for an OS X, and I believe you could use Disk Copy, if all you have is OS 9). I've installed software from disk images mounted on a machine, before, onto other volumes (I think I remember installing off of a disk image, onto a disk image) If you need to boot, though, and have a flash drive that'll hold the system, I think that should work.

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Dustin

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Could work, but depends ...

Some models are able to boot from USB, some are not. I believe the ones that can have USB 2.0.

Again, knowing which Mac we're dealing with would make a big difference here. The OP did not specify.

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Dozens of Macs; a handful of PCs; Apple ][e, ][c and ][gs; a few iPods; lots of parts
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My Dual USB G3 iBook boots fr

My Dual USB G3 iBook boots from USB and its 1.0.

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USB flash

Not sure, personally, but if you look down in the responses to this comment (do a search for "USB 1.1 and 2.0 ports/drives have always booted OS 9, on any Mac that can boot into OS 9"), there's one that says the Mac with USB 1.1 or 2.0 have always been able to boot from them, but I don't know from personal experience.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20061017084322177

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Re-installing OS 9 without an optical drive

I did note in the original post that is is a Pismo, didn't say it is 400MHz. Don't know anyone around here with a Firewire CD drive. My Powerbook 3400 doesn't have USB or Firewire, just SCSI and I have a SCSI CD burner, but I guess it isn't going to do much good here.

I guess what it comes down to is: Does anyone know if there is a way to read a Mac CD with PC MacLAN? If I could do that on the PC I should be able to copy it to the USB flash drive.

Funnny, I found the same MacOSXHints article last night!

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Russell - Unknown1 - Idaho USA
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PC II card

I looked both computers up on "everymac.com" (very handy site), and they both are supposed to be compatible with a PC II card, so you could pick up one of those, and ...

Did a google search, and came up with these, though I wouldn't say they fit the "cheap" requirement, there's probably a similar solution that does.

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Type_II_PC_Card_Mobile_Hard_Drive_5GB/DP-PCM2_5GB/p/25445
http://www.google.com/products?q=pc+II+card+drive&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd&sa=N&lnk=next&start=10

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For that kind of money one co

For that kind of money one could get a PC Card Compact Flash reader and a 4-8GB CF card and be solid state. No guarantees from me on of the Pismo will boot from it, though.

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This is what "similar"means, in this case(well, one possibility)

http://www.insanely-great.com/features/010823.html

Search for "Compact Flash/CF Type II/Smart Media"

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Dustin

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Here are more similar possibilities.

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1061)-SanDisk_Ultra_II_CompactFlash.aspx

Which, by the way, will be blazing fast memory that you can use for other purposes across many platforms, but specifically, on the two computers you have.

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Windows to Mac Software

I stumbled upon Gamba's site (not updated in four years but still there!) Many of the links are dead including the Mac Driver Museum :^(.

I am trying HFVExplorer 1.3.1. I am having a little trouble as it can read all the Mac OS 9.1 disk but it writes to the SD card as .bin, .hqx or resource fork or data fork only. Can't seem to find a way for it to just copy it as a Mac file.

I 'erased' the SD card with the Pismo, hoping HFVExplorer would then recognize it as a Mac disk, but nothing. I wonder if I should use Drive Setup to format it?

EDIT: 4:52PM
Drive Setup says 'unsupported drive' or something like that...

EDIT: 6:49PM
Tried MacDisk 7.2 and the trial version will not copy files larger than 1MB, so that won't work.

Using HFVExplorer I was able to get all the appropriate software to the Pismo but in extracting the .bin files with StuffIt, it also extracted every single item from every tome so I now have THOUSANDS of little files in my Mac OS Install folder on my Data partition! Of course I can't boot from a folder so this won't work anyway, I was just hoping I could piece all the OS stuff I copied together properly, copy it BACK to the SD card and then boot from it, but I guess it is still PC formatted so that won't work...

Have I really been working on this for four hours?!?

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Booting from USB on the Pismo

if you get a generic USB CD-ROM Drive (can be USB 1.1 or 2.0) Just hook it up to the USB Port and hold down the "Option key" when you hear the chime, that is, after you put the OS 9 cd in it the drive tray. Then select the CD.

The Pismo CAN boot from USB. so it's not that hard. It will work, go on and try it!

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Re: Windows to Mac Software

Unknown1 wrote:

I stumbled upon Gamba's site (not updated in four years but still there!) Many of the links are dead including the Mac Driver Museum :^(.

I am trying HFVExplorer 1.3.1. I am having a little trouble as it can read all the Mac OS 9.1 disk but it writes to the SD card as .bin, .hqx or resource fork or data fork only. Can't seem to find a way for it to just copy it as a Mac file.

I 'erased' the SD card with the Pismo, hoping HFVExplorer would then recognize it as a Mac disk, but nothing. I wonder if I should use Drive Setup to format it?

EDIT: 4:52PM
Drive Setup says 'unsupported drive' or something like that...

EDIT: 6:49PM
Tried MacDisk 7.2 and the trial version will not copy files larger than 1MB, so that won't work.

Using HFVExplorer I was able to get all the appropriate software to the Pismo but in extracting the .bin files with StuffIt, it also extracted every single item from every tome so I now have THOUSANDS of little files in my Mac OS Install folder on my Data partition! Of course I can't boot from a folder so this won't work anyway, I was just hoping I could piece all the OS stuff I copied together properly, copy it BACK to the SD card and then boot from it, but I guess it is still PC formatted so that won't work...

Have I really been working on this for four hours?!?

If the SD card works in the 3400 I would run the OS 9 cd and install directly to the SD card, then put it in the pismo and copy files over?

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The Pismo will need the Mac O

The Pismo will need the Mac OS ROM file on the drive, which the 3400c won't likely install.

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Re: Windows to Mac Software

hackintoshg4 wrote:

If the SD card works in the 3400 I would run the OS 9 cd and install directly to the SD card, then put it in the pismo and copy files over?

Unfortunately, I only have a PCMCIA to CF adapter (and 64MB and less CF cards) for the 3400. I will check out the external USB (and maybe Firewire combo) CD or DVD drive, may be cheaper and more versatile than upgrading my Pismo internal drive.

Start my new job today, maybe I will have the money next month.

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I've had an external USB 2.0

I've had an external USB 2.0 Plextor CD-RW for several years. I haven't made a lot of use out of it, but it has come in handy for a few very specific situations. One of which was plugging it into a 1U server to load an OS as the case didn't have room for an optical drive (2 3.5" bays and a big blower up front). Even an older el-cheapo external CD drive might be pretty handy to have hanging around.

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Re: Re-installing OS 9 without an optical drive

Unknown1 wrote:

I did note in the original post that is is a Pismo, didn't say it is 400MHz. Don't know anyone around here with a Firewire CD drive. My Powerbook 3400 doesn't have USB or Firewire, just SCSI and I have a SCSI CD burner, but I guess it isn't going to do much good here.

Does your 3400 have a network port? It seems the obvious way to transfer the files would be to share the install CD on the 3400 across the network to the Pismo. Assuming, as it seems, your Pismo actually has a "workable" OS installation on it, as it sounds like? (You just want to reinstall it clean because it seems "busted" somehow?)

So here's a recipe I haven't tried, but *might* work, assuming you can share the OS CD from your 3400, your Pismo works "well enough" to do some file manipulation, and the OS 9 installer will run from "anywhere", rather then being prickish about only running from the CD or only working on certain machines.

0: Share the OS 9 CD from your 3400. Or... if you're really desperate and your PC is all you have on your local network (your 3400 has no working ethernet or something), set up BasiliskII or Sheepshaver (Instructions on how to do this are outside the scope of this lame suggestion.) and share your CD with it. Should be doable, in theory.

1: Format a big (512MB or bigger) USB key with the Mac filesystem with your Pismo. Drag your "System" folder to it, open and shut it (to bless it), and then try booting from it. (Set it in the "startup disk" control panel, or hold... option? to get a boot menu and select it. I think the Pismo is the oldest laptop that supports the latter.) My 867 Titanium could boot OS 9 off a USB key this way.

2: Once you've verified that, connect to the network share of OS 9 on your 3400. First try this while you're booted off the USB key. If it works, you may be able to install directly across the net to your hard drive. If not, boot back into your local install and copy the installer files to the USB key.

3: If the "install directly from the net share" part of 2: didn't work, boot your USB key again and try installing from the installer files you copied to it.

In principle this *might* work. It all depends on how anal the installer is about checking to see if you're being "evil" or not. I remember OS 7.5.5 could just install from anywhere you'd copied the install files to, but later versions, not so much.

--Peace

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Re: Re-installing OS 9 without an optical drive

Eudimorphodon wrote:

Does your 3400 have a network port? It seems the obvious way to transfer the files would be to share the install CD on the 3400 across the network to the Pismo. Assuming, as it seems, your Pismo actually has a "workable" OS installation on it, as it sounds like? (You just want to reinstall it clean because it seems "busted" somehow?)

In principle this *might* work. It all depends on how anal the installer is about checking to see if you're being "evil" or not. I remember OS 7.5.5 could just install from anywhere you'd copied the install files to, but later versions, not so much.

--Peace

Hmmm, interesting idea. The 3400 Ethernet has not worked recently, but it may have something to do with the dead PRAM battery (I hope, it has several problems). I have a bunch of 3400 PRAM batteries (thanks to MacDan) but haven't had time to try them yet.

I guess what it comes down to is: Is there some OS 9 software that will format a USB flash drive? Drive Setup won't do it. Hmmm, I've got TechTool Pro installed, I wonder if it can format or just do testing? I will try that tomorrow.

It's 2:30AM and I have to go to work tomorrow, second day on new job, better get four hours sleep to at least 'appear' fresh, alert and ready to work, right? I mean, you can't use the excuse; 'Uh, I was up all night fixing my Mac', can you? No one would believe you! Laughing out loud

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Doing some Troubleshooting

Tried with extensions off; still same message:

"Your system cannot sleep because some system software is missing. Reinstall the software that came with your computer"

Realized I could do the OS 9.22 update again without the external drive (at 30MB it is pretty much a complete system). Tried it, still nothing, really strange.

So if it isn't extensions and isn't the System, what is it?

Unfortunately, the 9.22 update doesn't give you the option of a clean install...

The search continues...

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Target mode

Ok, I haven't researched this, but I know that some Macs could boot in target mode via SCSI, it might be a possibility, for on the price of a cable, I believe.

http://tinyurl.com/5f3lrp
http://kb.iu.edu/data/aahs.html
http://lowendmac.com/tf/2k1129.html

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yikes

Ok, so all you'd need for that is a cable/converter, but man firewire to scsi converters aren't cheap (the ones I've found at least, perhaps there are cheap ones that I didn't find)

Does the PC have SCSI?

Or maybe:

http://www.recycledgoods.com/item/29794.aspx

If you can find a compatible PCMCIA scsi card for the pismo (not sure if the above is or not), as cheap as that one, and get a scsi cable?

(you can always just swap drives, install from one machine, then swap back, or replace the optical drive)

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CUDA is a possibility

I should have thought of it, since it's a sleep issue

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58416

CUDA reset often fixes many things, highly recommended, as you seem to have bunches of problems with it.

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Re: CUDA is a possibility

vieuxnez wrote:

I should have thought of it, since it's a sleep issue
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58416
CUDA reset often fixes many things, highly recommended, as you seem to have bunches of problems with it.

This is the doc that applies to the Pismo: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449#faq7

Trying it now....

Pfffft.....!

Date reset to 1904 and all, still same error!!!

(What is the smiley for pulling ones hair out!) Embarrassed

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Russell - Unknown1 - Idaho USA
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Ok.

I should have realized it was the Pismo you were having trouble with, not the 3400, since you were talking about OS 9, but it didn't occur to me till now.

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Re: Ok.

vieuxnez wrote:

I should have realized it was the Pismo you were having trouble with, not the 3400, since you were talking about OS 9, but it didn't occur to me till now.

So, does the PC that you can access Mac Volumes from have Firewire? (you could always get a Firewire PCI card) Then startup the Pismo in target mode, then drag a the system folder in. Um... but you said the PC can't access Mac CDs? That's kind of sad. You could install a BSD or a Linux and access the CD from them, providing you have a way to backup and restore the system to the way you want it. Not sure what OS you've got on the PC, but in a UNIX you can run dd and get an iso image from the cdrom device without needing the OS to mount it (you actually have to unmount the cd),

Windows?:

http://www.granneman.com/techinfo/linux/burningcds/makeanisoimage.htm (or just google "windows cdrom iso image", etc)

So image the cd, whatever way you can, mount the iso, then transfer over a fresh System Folder to the Pismo, booted in target mode, using your PC mac volume mounting software.

Would be one way.

So the optical drive in the 3400 doesn't work, either?

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arggh

This makes me want to scream, and it isn't even my computer.

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Re: Ok.

vieuxnez wrote:

So, does the PC that you can access Mac Volumes from have Firewire? (you could always get a Firewire PCI card) Then startup the Pismo in target mode, then drag a the system folder in. Um... but you said the PC can't access Mac CDs? That's kind of sad. You could install a BSD or a Linux and access the CD from them, providing you have a way to backup and restore the system to the way you want it. Not sure what OS you've got on the PC, but in a UNIX you can run dd and get an iso image from the cdrom device without needing the OS to mount it (you actually have to unmount the cd),

Windows?:

http://www.granneman.com/techinfo/linux/burningcds/makeanisoimage.htm (or just Google "windows cdrom iso image", etc)

So image the cd, whatever way you can, mount the iso, then transfer over a fresh System Folder to the Pismo, booted in target mode, using your PC mac volume mounting software.

Would be one way.

So the optical drive in the 3400 doesn't work, either?

The CD drive works in the 3400, I just have no way to access it from the Pismo (no USB or Firewire on the 3400, no SCSI or Apple Serial on the Pismo, no money to upgrade anything at this point. What I did to get the system on the Pismo in the first place was to put the Pismo hard drive into the 3400 and install OS 9.1, put the Pismo hard drive back in the Pismo and apply the 9.21 and 9.22 upgrades (evidently, you need to do both upgrades in the correct order for it to work.

I have an old version of PCMacLAN on the PC (running XP Pro) and can copy the contents to the camera card, but the camera card is formatted FAT or FAT32 instead of HFS or HFS+ (and nothing seems to be able to re-format it to HFS) so it saves everything as a .bin file and when I go to install it on the Pismo, first: it can't boot from the camera card, second when I Run StuffIt on the .bin files it doesn't just convert them back to the files they were, noooo, it unstuffs every package and tome on the disk so I then have nearly 10,000 useless files on it! Oddly, StuffIt doesn't seem to leave the original files, like it does on a Mac formatted drive.

I just downloaded Disk Copy version 6.4 so maybe that might work, I have been using version 6.3.3.

I will investigate these other options to make an iso image on the camera card. I guess iso or smi should mount on the Pismo but iso may be bootable if I hold down option at startup and it sees the camera card as bootable?

I also have Nero 6 on the PC, I wonder it it could read the Mac disk and send it as an iso to the camera card? Maybe it could at least do a sector by sector copy of everything on the CD disk to the camera card (even if it doesn't understand the format)?

Can you use Target Disk Mode on a PC with Firewire? Never heard of that one.

I just had two old Pentium 4s given to me by a friend and it looks like at least one has Firewire. It'll take a couple days to get them set up and remove his old data( we already have three computers set up in this little corner so it will also involve bringing in more tables or working on the floor!), but maybe that is an option.

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Target Mode to PC

It seems like it, as I would have guessed, since it just turns the Mac into a firewire drive, basically, but there are some conflicting posts, which basically amount to "PC's and Mac don't play very well in target mode", but I'm guessing it's all a format problem from those who've posted, and I'm sure you just have to find the right software to be able to mount the drive

(http://www.asy.com/ was the first think I found, but I'm sure there are bunches more, probably free ones (linux and BSD have modules for mounting everything, and usually someone ends up porting it over to M$/etc))

The first hit in the google search mentions this as a security risk, but really, if someone else has control of your computer, just about any security isn't of much use, anyway, and he doesn't mention that you can put a firmware password on, which prevents starting in open firmware, or from CDs, without the firmware password, so really, it just depends on how secure you need to be. (Or using filevault, etc.)

http://tinyurl.com/5ulcj9

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Gotta Try That, Soounds Interesting, Buuuut...

The Pismo has taken a dive, evidently the OS is really screwed up, won't run WAMCom for more than 10 minutes straight without a hard reboot.

So I changed my sig to remove all Pismo references (don't want to deceiving anyone ;( ) and am back to the PC Tongue to find a solution...

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