G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

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Hello,

My G4 Quicksilver keeps popping up a Kernel Panic everytime I try to install an OS or run something off CD. I had to format it because it was giving me problems (last resort) but that didn't work at all. Here's what happens.

I turn on the computer and anytime I put in a non-bootable cd in the drive(like the OS install cd for example) it causes a kernel panic. Only bootable cds like apples hardware test will run. I ran that in both standard and extended mode but it detected no problems. I have tried many of things recommended in books and by apple themselves but no luck. These include

Different hard drives,
taking out all extra hardware that didn't originally come with the machine
PMU reset
Apple Hardware Test (to check the memory)

as well as some other things.

I contacted Mac Professionals and they said to replace the logic board (if it is the problem) would be $500, which I don't have that kind of money for a repair. So basically I have a G4 with no OS on it and continues to give a kernel panic anytime a non-bootable cd is inserted. On the rare instances that it does try to install my OS (10.3 Panther) the screen displays blocky colorful artifacts before freezing completely or telling me to restart.

Here is the kernel panic error (part of it) I don't have the rest because I can't export a log as I have no OS.

"Unresolved Kernel Trap (CPU1) 0x200"

I can't find any information on fixing this anywhere. So I am asking on forums in hope someone can help me. Please don't recommend disk utility or any other software that is not bootable off a cd. Since I have no OS, I can't use any of that. This is truly a hardware issue.

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Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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Why are you calling the Panth

Why are you calling the Panther OS install CD a non-bootable CD? How did you format if you can't boot into the installation CD? Panther has two install CD's. You're not, by chance, trying to install from disk 2 alone or something?

Don't rely on the Apple Hardware Test to check the memory. Reduce the memory to one stick (128mb minimum). Reset PRAM. Go into Open Firmware and reset all. If you have other video cards or CD drives, consider swapping them out. Disconnect the zip drive if you have one. Check the jumpers on all drives to see if they're correct. I'd suspect the memory first. Swap them out if you've got more than one stick. Where's the memory from?

For $500 you could buy a complete MDD G4 with monitor, for a little more, you might pick up a G5, drives, ram, video card, and all. Those boys at Mac Professionals are professionals. Wink

eeun's picture
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What HC said...plus a bit. Y

What HC said...plus a bit.
You need to start eliminating potential causes.

Have you tried:
removing/replacing RAM
replacing the IDE cable going to your hard drive
reseating the video card
trying a different optical drive
removing heat-sink and re-seating the CPU

Had you made any changes to the system before it started to act up?

Worst case, you can get a replacment Quicksilver or Digital Audio logic board off ebay for a lot cheaper than $500.

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Re: What HC said...plus a bit.

eeun wrote:

removing heat-sink and re-seating the CPU

Don't forget the thermal paste!

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

Sorry if my post sounded hasty, I was in a big hurry when posting. My system is Dual 1 GHz with 512MB installed. I originally had 1.5GB installed but TechTool Pro detected 2 of the modules were bad. So I took them out.

What I meant by a "non-bootable cd" is a cd that has to install something to run. A cd that can't run programs straight off it like Apple's Hardware Test. Because of this issue, I'm unable to install any programs as I have no OS.

10.3 Panther has 3 cds, it won't even get to the install screen before freezing or displaying a kernel panic. OSX 10.0 will get to the install screen (choose your langauge) but then display blocky colorful artifacts before displaying a kernel panic and freezing.

(Hawaii Cruiser) - The RAM is straight from Apple. I did swap out everything but the CD Drive (I don't have another one) Sadly, memory for the G4 QuickSilver (my model) is pretty expensive and I need as much as possible as I'm heavily involved in graphic designing. I haven't tried "Open Firmware" and "reset all", how would I go about doing that with no OS installed?

(Eeun) - I hadn't made any changes to the system when this started to happen. One day I had it on and it just went berserk. I tried formatting to fix it incase it was a program or OS error that caused this. But that just put me deeper in the hole. I haven't tried replacing the memory yet, nor have I tried "removing the heat-sink and re-seating the CPU" (which I have no clue how to do) Could you possibly post instructions on doing that?

I'm willing to try anything as long as it doesn't cost me all this money. This problem came at the worst time possible and I seriously need to get back working. That's why I don't want to buy all these differen't parts like a new optical drive and memory if it doesn't fix the problem.

Thank's for your time

eeun's picture
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> Sadly, memory for the G4 Qu

> Sadly, memory for the G4 QuickSilver (my model) is pretty expensive

Only if you buy it from Apple. Wink

Do you have a friend or neighbour with a Pentium III era PC? Something with PC133 ram will provide you with a stick or two for testing, and the optical drive could also be used to test, though I don't think now that the optical drive is likely to be the culprit.

There's a few photos showing how to remove a G4 CPU here. In short: remove clips from heatsink, gently lift CPU.

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re: expensive memory

Ya know, folks are soooo spoiled right now what with the price of DDR2 RAM being dirt cheap . . . all part of one's perspective I suppose. I recall spending $400 for a pair of 1MB SIMMs and so am thrilled to be able to buy a 512MB PC133 DIMM for under $30: 512MB RAM

While I agree in general principle with eeun's suggestion to borrow RAM, OS X can be a real buggerbear with non-conforming memory. Sticks that work fine in a generic PC can be useless in an OSX-running PowerMac. The best case has you sourcing from either another PowerMac, or purchasing new from a vendor who can guarantee compatibility with your QS.

I do agree bad RAM remains the most likely suspect so far, so having tested, faultless RAM for troubleshooting is a priority. You should however, just for completeness sake, test with the other two sticks you pulled, one at a time of course and in all slots.

dan k

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

Thanks for the reply guys.

(Eeun) - I do have a Pentium III with 384 MB of 133 SDRAM in it, would the memory from that work ok for testing? Thanks for the link by the way, I'm going to try that.

(Dankephoto) - I did try all the RAM sticks in each of the slots one at a time, but no luck. Is it possible all of them died? Thanks for showing me the prices of generic RAM. Do you think places like Office Max, Office Depot or Best Buy sell generic memory for those prices? If so, I will go out and buy a stick if the Pentium III's memory doesn't work.

eeun's picture
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Yeah, I'd give it a try. As D

Yeah, I'd give it a try. As Dan said, the Macs are picky, but if you get fewer/no issues it'll help narrow down your problem source.

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re: Is it possible all of them died?

No, it's really not, well, very very unlikely anyway. The odds of all three previously-working-fine DIMMs dying at the same time are extremely slight.

Having done that test, I'm thusly suspecting your issue probably ain't the RAM after all. Still, it'd be a good idea to try some _other_ DIMMs in there if you can.

dan k

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themike's picture
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At this point my money is on

At this point my money is on either the processor or the logic board being bad.

Is this by any chance a machine that has spent most of its life powered on, either in an awake or sleeping state?

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Eudimorphodon's picture
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So...

I could of missed it, but reading back over this... what was the initial problem you were seeing that prompted you to wipe the system and attempt to reinstall it? Was it similar crashes/kernel panics, or just... a bad, crufty software install?

It's odd to me that it apparently boots and runs the diagnostic CD without complaining. A couple other things I'm unclear on...

A: Exactly *what* have you tried booting and had either work or fail? Do you only have the diagnostic CD and the OS X installer? If you've just the two things to work from you could have a bad OS X CD. It happens.

B: A flaky CD-ROM drive is a possibility worth ruling out. One from a junk PC should work fine. Or...

C: If you have another Firewire-equipped Mac or can borrow one try putting the tower in target disk mode, cabling it up to the other Mac, and installing or cloning an OS that way.

If it is a bad motherboard I'd betchya a million (theoretical) bucks that it's bad capacitors. Not like that helps or anything.

--Peace

Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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Re: Open Firmware

Another AF member gave good instructions for open firmware resetting here:
http://www.applefritter.com/node/17818#comment-35688

I just recently used OF that way to fix a problem with one of my Quicksilvers which wouldn't wake from sleep. I removed the battery, hit the CUDA button (only once), let it sit for awhile, replaced the battery, started up into OF and did the reset-all. That did the trick for that Quicksilver. I've got another QS that wouldn't wake from sleep since I bought it used, but the OF PRAM reset didn't work with that one.

I can't remember any bad processors I've had except the ones that go dead--first symptom of a bad processor, death. Besides slowing down, what symptoms suggest a bad processor?

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

(eeun) - I tried removing the heatsink & re-seating the CPU, but that didn't work. Thank's for the info about that though.

(eeun & dankephoto) - Alright, I'll try my dimms from my Pentium III to see if that helps any.

(themike) - I have always turned my machine off when I was done using it even if it was only for a little while. I did stay up real late with it a lot as I am a graphic designer. I have Apple Hardware Test running in loop mode right now (loop 64 currently) and have had it all night. Hopefully it detects something, but nothing as of now. Everything passes.

(Eudimorphodon) - The reason I formatted and tried reinstalled was the same similar crashes/kernel panics.

I have tried booting Apple Hardware Test, OS 9, OS X 10.0 & OSX 10.3. So far only the thing that boots is Apple's Hardware Test. Which makes me believe I can only use cds that boot programs straight off the disc, not install them.

I will try a spare CD/DVD drive later today, I have two of them so this should help rule out if it's the optical drive or not.

I don't have an extra Mac or any PCs with firewire.

(Hawaii Cruiser) - Thank's for the link! I'll give that a try too.

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Re: G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

J.D. wrote:

(Eudimorphodon) - The reason I formatted and tried reinstalled was the same similar crashes/kernel panics.

I have tried booting Apple Hardware Test, OS 9, OS X 10.0 & OSX 10.3. So far only the thing that boots is Apple's Hardware Test. Which makes me believe I can only use cds that boot programs straight off the disc, not install them.

So... gazing into the hermetically sealed mayo jar on Funk & Wagnall's back porch with my mind, I have another suggestion:

Try disconnecting *all* hard disks. Just leave the CD-ROM drive connected. Then try booting your installer CDs.

(The only difference I can think of between the "Hardware Test" CD and an OS 9 (or OS X) installer (other then the obvious "it doesn't install software" part) is that the hardware test CD so far as I can remember *doesn't* try scanning for nor try mounting any filesystems it might find on your hard disks. If your primary IDE bus is "mostly but not totally farked" then *just maybe* it'd pass the Hardware Test CD's "test", which mostly just "counts fingers and toes".)

Obviously you can't install an OS with no hard disk present, but if you find yourself able to, say, boot your OS 9 CD and poke around the desktop where you couldn't before then maybe we have a winner.

Admittedly if this were to work it's still bad news. I'm not familiar with the cable layout inside a Quicksilver... *Maybe* you could hang a hard disk off the same bus the optical drive is on and have it work, at least suboptimally. Or perhaps you could use a Firewire drive.

Last idea I have, anyway.

--Peace

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One more suggestion ...

Does this QS have a Zip drive? Have you tried disconnecting its IDE cable?

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. Here is what I've tried recently from your advice.

I used Apple's Hardware Test on Extended Loop Mode. I let it run 107 loops before I cancelled it, because it showed no problems the whole time.

I tried two different CD/DVD drives, replacing the optical drive. Still the same problem. So it's not the optical drive.

I used my Pentium III RAM in my Quicksilver. It wasn't picky about it, but it still didn't work. So the RAM is not the problem either.

I have also tried Hawaii Cruiser's "Resetting Open Firmware" link. Did exactly as the instructions said, but still no help. I did it with my optical drive in there and 512 MB RAM, then again with a different CD/DVD drive and my Pentium III's memory.

I did notice however that my battery is near dead. Could that be the cause? It thinks the date is 1908. I have an original Mac Clone that has it's battery dead too, but it still boots up into OS 9. It just can't remember the date/time or my network settings. So I would tend to think the battery being dead wouldn't make it act like this, but then again G4 QuickSilvers might work different with the battery.

So I've narrowed it down to 3 things now. The battery, cables, or logic board (if so, somehow it passed Apple's Hardware Test on extended mode many of times.) I'm going to get a new battery and a USB/Firewire External Hard Drive. I need them both anyway, so if they don't work it wasn't a waste of money. If the USB/Firewire drive works, then I know it's something with the cables. If not, then the logic board.

(Eudimorphodon) Good idea, I'll give those a try. Sometimes with OS X 10.0 I can get to the install screen/desktop looking screen. But then it freezes there and kernel panics. OS 9 and 10.3 Panther either freeze while loading or force me to restart.

(cwsmith) My QuickSilver doesn't have a Zip Drive.

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Kernel Panics

THanks for asking about this. I have the same issue with the same computer. Right before it happend, I heard a 'knocking' noise and thought maybe one of the fans stopped working, which might have overheated the RAM or slot. I ran memtest and got errors on one of the the DIMMs. The apple disk aid said everything is OK. It's not. I'm going to start with the ram and work my way back with all the suggestions posted here. THanks for all the tips.

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

(Oreo) That's very similar to my situation. Some of the RAM died when this issue occured. I tried replacing the memory, but no luck. If you happen to get your G4 QuickSilver back up and running, could you please post what you did to fix it? I'm currently using my PC for work, but I really want my G4 fixed.

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Kernel panics are usually cau

Kernel panics are usually caused by a hardware problem – frequently RAM, a USB device or a Firewire device. When trying to troubleshoot problems, disconnect all external devices except your monitor, kbd & mouse. Do you experience the same problems?

May be a solution on one of these links.

What's a "kernel panic"? (Mac OS X)

Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

Resolving Kernel Panics

Avoiding and eliminating Kernel panics

12-Step Program to Isolate Freezes and/or Kernel Panics

Cheers, Tom Wink

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

Thanks to all of you who tried to help me through this problem. I recently got a PowerMac G4 MDD (Dual 1.42 GHz, 2GB RAM, 128MB Video Card and 120GB HDD) for $120 from a school upgrading to new computers. So I got a great deal and a replacement Mac that is far better than my G4 Quicksilver.

I found out not to long ago after learning a lot more about macs that one of the processors in the G4 Quicksilver burnt out. It was a dual processor machine, which could explain why it would boot up but not do anything. If I did anything that required CPU cycles it would freeze up and kernel panic. The only way to fix this problem is to buy a replacement dual 1 GHz daughtercard. With the daughtercard replaced, the machine will work like it should. The motherboard has no damage whatsoever, so it's without a doubt the daughtercard. I checked the processors to be sure and one of them is extremely burnt.

Thanks again for all the support!

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

I had the same problem and tried replacing the memory as well. Everything points to the daughter card from what I'm reading. I really need to get this machine up and running again quick because my main machine (MacBook Pro 17 2.4 ghz intel) died because of a manufacturers defect (NVIDIA graphics). The entire logic board has to be replaced so I don't have a machine of any speed now. I'm using my original Wallstreet Pismo running OSX 10.3.9 for email... a twenty year old machine with zero problems... go figure!

How do I find a daughter card cheap for my G4 Quicksilver?? It was a dual also.

Thanks, great post.

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G4 QuickSilver Kernel Panic Problem

Jginn,

Unfortunately older Mac hardware is extremely expensive new (or even buying from preowned mac sites). I've looked around so many places, including the internet. The price for my dual 1 GHz daughtercard was over $200! I got my G4 MDD for much less. Your best bet is someone selling your G4 model on Craig's List (where I got my G4 MDD) or Ebay. From what I'm seeing there are complete fully working G4 Quicksilver's for under $200, and entire logic boards for the Quicksilver for under $60 on Ebay right now.

Good luck.