Apple 601 Upgrade Card Problem on Mystic

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 60

Hello everyone. I have a Mystic, and recently acquired an Apple Power Mac Processor Upgrade on eBay. I have posted a picture of my predicament here:
http://www.designersunlimited.com/chip_collage.jpg.

As you can see, neither the 040 nor the PPC upgrade will fit in completely, despite the fact that they are correctly positioned (corners missing pin lined up)and I have applied force, but just not too much for fearing of bending the pins.

The processor is not working, likely because of this problem. Has anyone ever done this before? Any suggestions?

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Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 60
Take out period after jpg.

The link should not have a period after jpg

Here is the correct link to see my problem:

http://www.designersunlimited.com/chip_collage.jpg

dankephoto's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
missing spacer, but that's not yer problem

My PPC upgrades came with a spacer/shim/thingy which fits between the '040 and the upgrade card. From what I see in your pics you've got both sets of pins in about as far as they can go.

When you say "The processor is not working", to which processor are you referring (the '040, the PPC or both?) Presumabaly you know you need a control panel to set the pram so's yer Mac will boot from the PPC card.

BTW, once you've set yer Mac to boot to the PPC upgrade, you can safely pull the '040 out. It uses quite a bit of juice and therefore also creates alot of heat. I've been running my MysticCC/Daystar 66mhz PPC for years now without an '040 installed.

hth,

Dan K

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 60
Bigger problems

I now have no video on my Mystic, and I have tried it with and without the PPC card. Argh.
I wonder if the card fried the 575 board? Now I need to get the original CC board back from a guy I loaned it to to see if that will work.

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 21
Re: Bigger problems

I have owned two of these upgrade cards, one of which worked and one of which didn't, so I have some experience on both ends of this problem.

Concerning the pins-not-fully-in problem, it's not a problem. It looks to me from your pictures that you have the card installed correctly. On the other hand, your picture shows that you do not have the PRAM battery installed. In case you are not aware of it, when installing this PPC upgrade card on a 575 motherbaord, first carefully remove the L2 cache card from the card. Then install the card (sans L2 card) onto the CPU. Then you will see that there is a little hole in the PPC card that allows you to plug the PRAM battery into the motherboard. Finally, carefully install the L2 cache card back onto the PPC card. Since the PPC card covers the velcro on the motherboard, just park the PRAM battery anywhere it is comfy.

Now, are you aware that a dead PRAM battery on a 575 motherboard can cause the video black-out problem you are describing? Well, be advised, it can. On the other hand, a 575 board with *no PRAM battery plugged in* (like you show in your picture) should actually boot correctly with video, except of course your clock and other settings are messed up. So if in fact you've been booting it with no PRAM battery and you're getting no video, you gotta problem. And - just to make sure - you are replacing the 68040 CPU back onto the motherboard when you test it without the PPC card, right?

Now let's move on to the original question about the PPC card "not working." To expand on what the previous replier said, the Apple PPC card - a.k.a. Daystar Powercard 601 - REQUIRES System 7.5 or 7.5.1, plus a special system enabler and control panel to operate. If you are using any other OS including 7.5.3 or 7.5.5 or if the enabler or control panel are not present, it's no dice.

However - the consequence of having the wrong OS or no special doodads ought to be simply that the card does not function but otherwise your Mystic boots and works correctly (provided of course that you have the 68040 CPU plugged into the top of the PPC card).

But if the PPC card itself is fried, I can tell you from experience that what will happen is, when you have the card plugged in you get NOTHING. No chimes, no boot, no spinning hard drive - nothing (except that the power does come on). When you take the card out and put the 68040 CPU back in, evrything's fine.

Two final thoughts:

1. Try installing the PPC card without the L2 cache card attached. It's always possible the problem is there rather than the card itself.

2. Try it without the 68040 CPU plugged in. Maybe your problem is there.

Hope all this helps.

Bruce - in Orlando
Home of Mackey Mouse

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Re: Bigger problems

My PPC Mystic is running 8.6 nicely, so OSes other than 7.5.x do work. The enabler was just for 7.5.x, 7.6 and above don't need one.

The logic board will by default boot to the '040 and not the PPC card. So to enable the PPC card to boot you must boot at least once with the 040' in place to set the PRAM bit that tells the LB to boot from the PPC. AFAIK, there is NO other way to get it to boot to the PPC card.

And since you need to keep PRAM alive while the board is handled (or it forgets its boot-from-PPC setting), a live PRAM battery is rather nice to have. If you don't have the correct battery, you can always make your own 4.5v pack with the old PRAM batt's connector. I put 3 AA alky cells in a 4-cell holder, and that pack's still in service must be now 3 years later. Smile

As for no-boot with PPC removed, as Bruce mentioned a dead PRAM can cause that symptom. When you say "dead video", does that mean you hear startup activity but there is no video? Or that there is no activity at all?

I'd also venture the possibility of having static fried the '040, have you any other '040 processors you could try instead?

Dan K

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
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All fixed, I think

I replaced the two 256K VRAM SIMMS, powered up, and now it's fine. So I guess all I did was fry one or both of the SIMMS. Now I'll get back to the PPC upgrade issue, hopefully this evening.

Thanks for all the input.

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 60
I'm not quite sure I understa

I'm not quite sure I understand the need to make a PRAM battery. At any rate, when you pull the board out (so you can remove the 040), the PRAM settings will be erased anyway (or at least that has been my experience).

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 60
RAM Limitation?

Is it true that the PPC upgrade cards will only recognize 32MB of RAM, regardless of what you have installed in your Mystic? (I have 64 installed in mine for total of 68 - 4 on motherboard).

That's a drag, if true! Is there a workaround?

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re: RAM Limitation?

I tried several different 64MB simms in different banking arrangements. None I tried worked in my Mystic/PPC though they worked fine with the '040. From what I've read there's no chance of getting any 64MB simm to work with the PPC upgrade.

Sorry.

Search the old CC board for details.

re: the pram battery - the LB will keep all its pram settings even when removed from the 'puter _if_ a working pram battery is installed.

Dan K

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outta luck

Unfortunately, the RAM-recognition limitation of the PPC card is due to the ROM. So there's no way around it. I too have a "PowerMystic" -- in '040 mode it's got 132MB RAM, but in PPC mode it only recognizes 36MB.

Matt

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128MB SIMM?

Hi. Where did you find the 128MB SIMM? Thanks

tmtomh's picture
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I didn't

It came with the PowerMystic, already installed by the previous owner. Sorry!

There are places where you can probably still dig up a 128MB SIMM, but (a) they'll be expensive, and (b) you have to get it from a vendor who knows his/her stuff and will sell you one that will work with the 575 logic board (it's gotta be single-banked -- something you can't tell by visually inspecting the SIMM module).

Matt

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
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128 mes SIMM...

You can get a 128 meg SIMM that will work in your Mystic from 800-4-Memory. I forget the part number, and such, but it is in the FAQ. The price is quite reasonable as well.

Installing is trick as teh SIMM is too tall to allow the LB to slide in. You have to seat it in its slot at 45 degrees, slide the LB in, and then click the SIMM into place after the LB is seated.

Just check the FAQ. 800-4-Memory still has it in stock as I just checked ita couple of days ago. My new Mystic is barely 2 days old and all it needs is the big RAM. (And the VGA upgrade--but I suck with solder)

Scott

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Posts: 180
Memory madness!

I know it's nice to say that your memory is maxed out, and that "My Mystic is bigger than your Mystic", but I really don't see any other attraction in the 128Mb sticks for Mystics. IMHO, 68Mb (4+64) is fine for 8.1 on a Mystic. OS takes about 11Mb, leave an awful lot for applications!

IMHO, far better to use the cash for more interesting things, like a video card.

See http://www.applefritter.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=powercc;action=display;num=1043182009;start=6#6

Wink

Stuart

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Stuart Bell,
Developer of the PowerCC site a long time ago.