Is it or isn't it an Apple II?

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Joined: Feb 21 2006
Posts: 21

Hi all,

I thought the machine I have is an Apple II. Then I thought it was an Apple II with updated II+ ROMs. Now I don't know.

The machine boots up (thanks for all the suggestions!!) with "Apple ][" on the display and a "]" prompt. This an Applesoft BASIC prompt, not Integer BASIC. That is what I'd expect on a II+. I naively tried the various keyboard tricks of escaping/switching to INT Basic- no go.

What do I look for to determine if this is a II motherboard with II+ ROMs, or really a II+?

What else I know:

** It ain't a Rev 0 board (based on http://www.willegal.net/appleii/appleii-first_page.htm )
** The center of motherboard has a "1978" printed below the "apple computer inc" text.
** The board has a hand-marked as 7928 (serial number?) in the corner near the power connector.
** In Apple's Model number scheme, A2S0xxxx is a II, A2S1xxxx is a II+, right?
** The case sticker has a X-mark next to "A2S0016" (So it's a II ??)
** The same case sticker gives a serial number of "A2S1-61847" (So it's a II+ ??)
** In locations D1, E1, F1 (where it says "Memory Select") it has the 3 chips/plug-in-things on each is printed "16K 16K 16K"
** The ROMs have manufacture dates of 1978 (if I read them correctly).

Thoughts?

Thanks again.
Scott

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Joined: Apr 11 2006
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Some commentary (see the note

Some commentary (see the note from vbriel) here:
http://www.applefritter.com/node/20409

Eudimorphodon's picture
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Posts: 1204
So...

Practically the only difference between a ][ and a ][+ is the ROMs. If this Apple II FAQ is to be believed some "Original" ]['s and early ][+'s actually shipped with the same revision motherboards. By that standard then if your case lid doesn't say "plus" in green type under "Apple" then you're probably perfectly justified in calling it a ][. It's just not an early one, and thus you're probably not going to get *MILLIONS OF DOLLARS* on eBay for it.

As for trying to switch it into Integer BASIC, do you have a ROM card in one of the slots? Without that card in *hardware* an Apple ][ only has one BASIC at a time resident on the motherboard.

Of course, I've owned a grand total of one Apple II machine (a Plus), and that was years ago, so what do I know.

--Peace

mmphosis's picture
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Apple II and Apple II+ differences

from Apple II History

- the strapping blocks that had made it possible to use either 4K or 16K RAM chips on the original Apple II were removed.

- the Revision 0 board had only four colors (green, violet, black, white)

- The "color killer" circuit they added fixed things so that non-graphics text would display in black and white only.

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Joined: Feb 21 2006
Posts: 21
Re: Some commentary (see the note

david__schmidt wrote:

Some commentary (see the note from vbriel) here:
http://www.applefritter.com/node/20409

In Part:

vbriel wrote:

Here's how to tell:
Model # A2S0... is Apple II and the serial number is A2S1...
Apple IIplus models are A2S1... and the serial # is A2S2...

Boards get swapped out over time, ROM's get upgraded, lids get changed around but you can't hide the model and serial #'s, they are true to fact. Some people say that the older Apple II board with the 16K jumpers indicate it is an apple II but I have personally seen Apple IIplus computers with these boards installed. Around the change over time between the II and the IIplus it was common to see the older II keyboards (raised power light) in IIplus models and the newer IIplus keyboard with the flat power light in the II models. Same went for the mainboards. It makes sense that they used up their inventory.

Hope this helps, people may argue and say their A2S2 is an original II but as far as most experts say, that isn't true.

Just curious but did your II's come with lids? Are they II or IIplus lids?

Vince

Well- The model/serial numbers indicate it's a II with II+ ROMs.

I forgot to mention-
** it has both 8T28s at H10/11 (see http://www.applefritter.com/node/23664 )
** the original owner didn't have the original lid. We was using an ill-fitting IIe lid.
** I don't have a ROM card (which would have the Integer BASIC ROMs)

Since then I've found-
** It's a Rev. 4 board (look through the lower hole of the Slot 4 connector)
** Motherboard part number is 820-0001-04. Found under the 6502. The -04 also indicates it is a Rev. 4 board.
** It looks like this board is a II on the edge timewise. To quote Kevin at http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ground.icaen.uiowa.edu/MiscInfo/Hardware/IIMBrevisons :

Quote:

'77 to 78 is a II REV.00 - REV.04
'79 to '80 is Both II and II+ REV. 04 - REV.07
'81 to xx is a II+ RFI

Anyone have a source for Integer BASIC ROMs? I figure I own the machine, I can legally get original/copy ROMs.

Thanks,
Scott

littlejohn's picture
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Re: Is it or isn't it an Apple II?

swapple wrote:

Hi all,

** The board has a hand-marked as 7928 (serial number?) in the corner near the power connector.

This number means it was produced the 28th week of '79.

resman's picture
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Re: Some commentary (see the note

swapple wrote:

Anyone have a source for Integer BASIC ROMs? I figure I own the machine, I can legally get original/copy ROMs.

Thanks,
Scott

Sure, it's right on the DOS 3.3 System Master disk (INTBASIC). However, finding old PROMs and a burner might be difficult. Luckily you can find pre-burned ROMS here:
http://www.reactivemicro.com/index.php?cPath=1_35

Dave...

themike's picture
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Can it be run from the disk o

Can it be run from the disk or does it need to be burned to ROM?

__________________

dream it, think it, feel it, be it

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INTBASIC can run either way -

INTBASIC can run either way - ROM or disk.

resman's picture
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Re: Can it be run from the disk o

themike wrote:

Can it be run from the disk or does it need to be burned to ROM?

To run from disk, you will need a 16K RAM card in slot 0. It will function as a ROM card after the DOS System Master has copied the ROM image into the RAM card. Switch back and forth with the INT and FP commands.

Dave...

EDIT: note this works either way; when booting from the System Master, it will load whatever version of BASIC isn't in ROM into the RAM card. My Apple II with INT BASIC load AppleSoft into the RAM card. My II+ loads Integer BASIC into the RAM card. Pretty cool.

Eudimorphodon's picture
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And of course...

It's very possible the cheapest way to get one of those 16K RAM cards (Also called a "Language Card") might be to get your hands on a complete working ][+, since they as of yet lack the pricing cachet of ]['s. ;^) I'd be surprised if you were to ever fine a Plus lacking one.

It's a fuzzy memory, but I seem to recall that some CPM cards for ]['s that had onboard RAM could also serve as a Language card.

--Peace

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Joined: Feb 21 2006
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Yup, Integer BASIC works!

Yup, Integer BASIC works!

I booted it from a DOS 3.3 disk. It automagically loaded Integer BASIC into the Language card. Now I can switch to Integer BASIC by typing INT and back again to AppleSoft by typing FP (for Floating Point?)

Thanks for all the good information!!

Scott