G3 AIO ?'s; newb to g3aio, not macs in general

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AG-Wolf's picture
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Alright, I just got a G3 AIO with a 400MHz xlr8 upgrade in it. It has an 18 gig hard drive, 512 megs of ram, and os x.2. And thats all I know about it o.o I know I want the Wings Personality card, and have just bought one (waiting for it to arrive). Other than that, though, I have no other knowledge about the machine...nor OS X (I'm someone who would prefer still using my Classic 2 with 7.1, or Q605 w/ 7.6.1 Wink ). I have just a small list of questions that I hope some people can answer.

1) Can I startup from BOTH os 9 and OS X on this machine? At power on, it doesn't have the standard grey screen that I am familiar with, does this mean its startup procedure has been modified (since I know the machine itself was created before OS X).

2) I have a PDF of the service manual for the machine, and it shows how to adjust the screen geometry using Monitors and Sound in OS 9... but since it has OS X installed, can I not change it? (The screen has really shrunk and is horribly off center).

3) If I were to go buy an 80 gig hard drive from Staples or something, would it work in the machine right in place of the current hard drive, or would I need a card like Sonnet's Tempo series or whatever? I had bought a 40 gig maxtor from Staples a while back to use in my 6500 that I'm on now, but it was ata 166 or 133 or whatever and the 6500 couldn't recognize anything was there)

4) If I were to upgrade futher (a faster g3 processor, or even g4), would it be worth it? Is the onboard display processor strong enough to use OS X.3?

4a) Would it still be bootable in OS 9 on a higher-level processor?

5) I took a picture of the motherboard and labeled a few things that I dont know what they do/are.

g3aio.jpg
--1) is this a third ram slot, the empty one? WHat kind of ram do I need (although, I dont think Ill ever need more than the 512 I already have)
--2) "SGRAM Only" this similar slot was in our Rev A iMac, is it a slot for video memory? What kind do I need there?
--3) this is a stock personality card, is this slot on it for a modem? Where can I get one, or do all Wings Personality card have them?
--4) should this chip have some sort of heat sink on it or some kind of protection?

-------

If anyone can give me any sort of feedback on all these questions, it would be GREATLY appreciated!! =^.^= THanks in advance.

PS: wow, its been so long since I came here...I cant get used to these new forums... took me 20 minutes alone to figure out how to put an image in the message -.-;

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AG-Wolf's picture
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because I can't see a place t

because I can't see a place to edit posts -.-; the AIO has 10.2.8 on it I believe.

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» Main Mac: PowerMac 6500 inside Color Classic/G3 500Mhz 1MB L2/128Mb Ram/40Gb HD/OS 9.1/ATI Rage 128/OrangeLink USB-FireWire/CSII E-net/TV-FM Tuner

g3head's picture
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Re: G3 AIO ?'s; newb to g3aio, not macs in general

AG-Wolf wrote:

1) Can I startup from BOTH os 9 and OS X on this machine? At power on, it doesn't have the standard grey screen that I am familiar with, does this mean its startup procedure has been modified (since I know the machine itself was created before OS X).

Yes you can boot anything from 8 to 10.2.8 without any problems. 10.3 requires you to use xpostfacto and a PCI video card. If its not the grey screen you're used to its because its going into 10.2 Apple changes it. If you set it to boot into 10.1.5 or earlier then you'll get the classic grey boot screen. All you have to do is change a setting in the startup disc preferance panel.

Quote:

2) I have a PDF of the service manual for the machine, and it shows how to adjust the screen geometry using Monitors and Sound in OS 9... but since it has OS X installed, can I not change it? (The screen has really shrunk and is horribly off center).

There was a discussion on this a while back (AF2.0) I forget what the conclussion was.

Quote:

3) If I were to go buy an 80 gig hard drive from Staples or something, would it work in the machine right in place of the current hard drive, or would I need a card like Sonnet's Tempo series or whatever? I had bought a 40 gig maxtor from Staples a while back to use in my 6500 that I'm on now, but it was ata 166 or 133 or whatever and the 6500 couldn't recognize anything was there)

Up to 138GBs IIRC. I've got 2 Beige G3s, one with a 40GB ATA/133 Maxtor and the other with a 120GB ATA/100 Seagate. Both work fine. However if you want the speed of ATA/100 or ATA/133 or more than 138GBs of storage per drive you'll need an IDE card. If you want to make the old drive a slave you need B or C roms

Quote:

4) If I were to upgrade futher (a faster g3 processor, or even g4), would it be worth it? Is the onboard display processor strong enough to use OS X.3?

Beige G3 support was dropped with 10.3. You can hack it to work with XPF and a PCI video card, but its really not worth it unless you get everything dirt cheap or have already spent the money. I doubt you fall into either of those catagories so the simple ansswer is No, its not worth upgrading further.

Quote:

4a) Would it still be bootable in OS 9 on a higher-level processor?

Yes

Quote:

5) I took a picture of the motherboard and labeled a few things that I dont know what they do/are.
--1) is this a third ram slot, the empty one? WHat kind of ram do I need (although, I dont think Ill ever need more than the 512 I already have)

Yes, PC66 SDRAM IIRC. PC100 works as well. 512MB will probably be more than enough tho'.

Quote:

--2) "SGRAM Only" this similar slot was in our Rev A iMac, is it a slot for video memory? What kind do I need there?

I think it is video ram, but I'm not sure

Quote:

--3) this is a stock personality card, is this slot on it for a modem? Where can I get one, or do all Wings Personality card have them?

Yes the slot is for a modem, no I don't think all wings cards have them. The G3 I have a wings card in lacked a modem. If you need one I may have one I can part with.

Quote:

--4) should this chip have some sort of heat sink on it or some kind of protection?

Pretty sure the answer to that is no.

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Re: G3 AIO ?'s; newb to g3aio, not macs in general

1) yup you can ... the gray screen is the default Mac OS X startup screen (instead of the happy mac) ... you can switch between the two OSes using the startup disk control panel/prefs pane ...

2) the monitors prefs pane should have all the same controls ...

3) 10.3 isnt supported on the Beige G3s ... you may be able to get it to work with Xpostfacto though ...

4) depends on what you want to do with it Wink ... the limiting factor is the built in display the 6mb VRAM limit ...

4a) yes ...

5) 1) its a 168pin SODIMM - PC66 or faster (NOT DDR!!!) ... you can put an extra 256 in to take it up to 768mb total ...

- 2) thats a VRAM slot ... and since it has a chip in it it is probably maxed out (6mb maximum) ...

- 3) not sure Undecided

- 4) thats the PCI controller ... its fine just like that Wink

hope that helps Smile

Damn you G3head ... alwaysbeating me to it ... by 1 minute!!!

TOM

AG-Wolf's picture
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I thank you both for all the

I thank you both for all the comments, very helpful!! I think I'll respend to you guys in the same format...

1) good to know, because some of the things I need to do require a REAL os 9, not loaded from within OS X. Now, though, do I NEED to install 9.2 or can I install 9.1 alongside os X?

2) this problem was addressed here:
http://www.applefritter.com/node/view/2257
and no seeming resolution was reached. WHile I have neither tried the geometry settings in 10.2.8, nor os 9 on the AIO I have, I will look into it.

3) While I read another thread here at the forums somewhere, where someone ELSE successfully installed a 40gb maxtor in at 6500; with my own personal bad experience, I'm still doubtful...

4, 4a) not worried about 10.3 that much, but I will eventually be getting a faster g3 or g4 for it

5, --1) ...thanks XD

--2) TomLevins: there's no chip in it. G3Head: It is video, but I still dont know what kind of chip. I know 144pin, thats about it.

--3) G3head: what, a modem card for the personality cards? sure dude...

--4) ...I still feel uncomfortable with it all shiney and exposed

------

thats where I stand right atthe moment. now, as soon as I can pry myself from listening to all my OC ReMix mp3s, Ill disconnect my 6500 and hook up the AIO to check out a couple of those things Tongue If anyone knows how to delete user accounts in OS X, that would help too =^.^=

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Eudimorphodon's picture
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Re: I thank you both for all the

AG-Wolf wrote:

3) While I read another thread here at the forums somewhere, where someone ELSE successfully installed a 40gb maxtor in at 6500; with my own personal bad experience, I'm still doubtful...

The Beige G3 M/B is picky. Probably not quite as picky as a 6500, but still picky. (My Rev. 2 B&W is picky, for that matter. Apple makes picky hardware.) Some big drives will work, some won't. Wish I could be more precise. It was somewhat annoying to try to find a hard disk that worked properly in my early Rev. B iMac, which uses the same controller.

The only thing I can say is Maxtor seems to be the least troublesome brand in my experience in terms of compatability. IBM/Hitachi is probably the worst, although my B&W works with an IBM Deskstar after screwing up with a Western Digital, so your mileage may vary.

Quote:

--3) G3head: what, a modem card for the personality cards? sure dude...

Look at the technical reference manual for the Beige G3 on Apple's site. I'm pretty sure that slot was designed for an MPEG decoder which may or may not have been vaporware.

--Peace

AG-Wolf's picture
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I've strangely had no problem

I've strangely had no problem with IBM stuff Tongue but never the less, I guess Ill just have to get another when I have 60 bucks to burn.

No, on the personality card's back faceplate, there's even a modem icon..well nevermind ,it may have been a decoding slot, I'll have to doublecheck so I know what Im talking about XD

thanks for the insight =^.^=

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Re: I thank you both for all the

Eudimorphodon wrote:

Look at the technical reference manual for the Beige G3 on Apple's site. I'm pretty sure that slot was designed for an MPEG decoder which may or may not have been vaporware.

Since I don't have a digicam...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25436&item=4125776383&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

AG-Wolf's picture
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this was the one I won... no

this was the one I won... no modem thoguh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4127630176&category=11151&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1

damn -.-; had I known that was a modem slot, then I'd have looked for one with a modem in it *sigh* What is the wider of the two white connectors on the card?

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Re: I thank you both for all the

AG-Wolf wrote:

--2) TomLevins: there's no chip in it. G3Head: It is video, but I still dont know what kind of chip. I know 144pin, thats about it.

its a special VRAM chip ... not sure if they are widely available ... but AFAIK its the same kind as is in the original iMac ... i would look in the service manual ... it would probably have more info

AG-Wolf wrote:

--4) ...I still feel uncomfortable with it all shiney and exposed

if you really want to put a heatsync on it then do so ... but its not going to make much difference Wink

TOM

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AIO

Duplicate post... look below.

Sorry.

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AIO

Based on your picture (->2), you have the base 2MB of video RAM and there is a 4MB chip available to boost your Resolution and Colors... I bought one on ebay for about $12...

There are sites that detail hacks to the video, using a PCI video card, but they mention a ghost screen, IE: a nonvisable spanning screen (the built in video still drives a screen) where your mouse can go, but not be seen. Someone may have solved this by now?

I have installed 10.2.8 on my AIO with a 500Mhz G3 and 512MB, with no problems... and it seems just as fast as my iMac G3 400. ATA card compatibility is spotty, some work (Sonnet) some don't (VST) All Firewire and USB cards have been fine...

BTW: an internal modem would be a bad choice in my opinion, as you would be limited to the technology available at the time of manufacture of the AIO. Go for an external USB, with a USB PCI card...

This is just MY experience.

Cheers!

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AIO

I picked up 3 beige g3 towers a few weeks ago and have been cobbling them (and a handful of other hardware) together. I've been looking hard for info on the Wings personality card. What I've found is Apple has no reference about the connectors on the card other than the modem/com slot 2. Seems odd, but there it is. By the way, an external modem is not only cheaper, but faster. Lots of Global Village 56Ks out there for $5-$10.

I've also got the PCI video card. It gives you dual monitor capability when you plug one monitor into the built in monitor port and a second monitor into one of the monitor ports on the card. Twice as much real estate on your screen is hard to give up once you get used to it.

In addition, you'll need a dual monitor set up to record video coming in across the personality card. I managed to get the driver needed to get that card up and working. They had gone under a few years back, but the company that bought them out is still posting the drivers. Let me know if you need it.

I also have an extra 4mb vram chip to plug into the MOBO if you need it.

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Re: AIO

sgwillia wrote:

to record video coming in across the personality card. I managed to get the driver needed to get that card up and working.

Under OS X??? If so, yesssss I neeeeeeeed it toooo!

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