7.5.5 on Beige G3?

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Joined: Aug 3 2004
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Anyone know of a way I can get 7.5.5 running on a Beige G3?

-Tom

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Jon's picture
Jon
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[url]http://docs.info.apple.c

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=43124 says OS 8.0+. I have yet to get my G3 runnig so I can't test 7.5.5 or 7.6, but I doubt they'd run.

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Joined: Aug 3 2004
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Yeah I checked apple-history.

Yeah I checked apple-history.com and it said 8.0 was the lower limit. I have a feeling I'm going to need to stick to 7.5.5 for some older hardware. I picked up the G3 for this purpose without thinking about the fact that I might be stuck back in 7.5.5. I'm hoping theres some hack to get it running. It'd be nice to use the G3 instead of a first-gen PCI PowerMac since I don't have any PCI G3 upgrades at the moment. Or any PCI PowerMacs for that matter...

What's the problem with your G3?

-Tom

eeun's picture
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Joined: Dec 19 2003
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Why 7.5.5?

If it's because that's all you've got, then this isn't much help, but if you need to run a particular software title that won't run past 7.5.5, you might be able to run it on under vMac - the Mac Plus emulator. (how's that for a run-on sentence?)Wink

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Joined: Aug 3 2004
Posts: 74
Nope....I want to run a Radiu

Nope....I want to run a Radius VideoVison PCI Telecast video capture setup and I'd prefer to do it in a G3 rather than a 2nd gen PowerMac. 7.5.5 is the last supported system - well there's no support anymore, but people have reported problems with 8 and above.

I'll have to keep hunting for a way to install it...there has to be some trick that can get it going.

-Tom

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Freaky-hybrid system?

Well, this probably won't work, but... I'm wondering if you could try copying a 7.5.5 installation over to the G3's HD, and then swapping out the 7.5.5. System File/Suitcase and swapping in the 8.1 System File/Suitcase.

My thinking on this is motivated by the idea that the System File is likely the file that contains the needed System Enabler resources for the G3s. If -- and this is the big if -- the rest of the 7.5.5. installation is able to coexist with the 8.1 System File, then you might be in business.

Of course, this also assumes that the System File isn't the component of 8.1 that breaks the Radius setup.

The only other option I can see is trying to write your own System Enabler, as Apple did with System 7/7.1. But while the old System Enabler files were relatively small, I imagine it's far from trivial to write one from scratch, not least b/c of Apple's tendency not to share detailed software info like that with developers.

Matt

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alk
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Back in the day, when the G3

Back in the day, when the G3 was brand new, I remember reading about someone having hacked 7.5.5 onto it. He claimed it ran extremely quickly! (No doubt.)

I'm betting he hacked some sort of utility system to work with the G3. Probably the hacks that let unsupported PPC upgraded 68ks run OS 8.5 through 9.1 would also lead to a _backwards_ compatibility hack for 7.5.5 on a G3. Try playing around with GUSD resources or something... 7.6.1 might be easier - it has a lot in common with 8.0...

Peace,
Drew

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Could you possibly swap the R

Could you possibly swap the ROMS with an older macs?

Cheers,
fmcat
(BTW, I Have yet to look at the roms in my G3)

Jon's picture
Jon
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There are 3 rev.s of the ROMs

There are 3 rev.s of the ROMs, and I'm sure that they have special code to get the G3 and associated hardware setup to run an OS. A good point would be to check Open Firmware versions here and from there I see that no other PPC has the exact same OF versions as a Rev 1 or 2 Beige G3. Rev. 1s run Rage II+ video, and Rev. 2 runs Rage Pro. I've got another G3 now, and it's a Rage Pro Turbo and Rev. C ROMs. Going from a Rev. A to a Rev. C ROM helps with hardware support. I'm sure that going backwards to an earlier ROM would loose support for hardware, as well as any bug fixes to get the G3 to run.

Not a bad idea, but it might be more applicable to swapping ROMs around on PCI 604 Macs.

EDIT: Just stuck a 7.6 CD into the new G3. Held down 'c' and it read the CD a little bit, but it then booted OS 9 off the HDD. Tried running the installer from the CD, and it just put up a window and said "This software does not run on this Mac model." It's gonna be a no go unless one uses "Wish I Were" or some trickery to fool it in to booting.

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To say adding an older OS to newer Mac is not easy...

would be a major understatement. I'm of course specifically referring to Mac hardware which requires a minimum OS version, and attempting to use OSes older than that minimum.

As many know, while OS 9.2.2 doesn't support pre-G3 models, it was possible to add the missing resources, bits which Apple deleted in the process of narrowing their support exposure. With the 9.1 to 9.2 jump, the basic structure of the two OSes is so very similar it's possible to re-add the missing hardware supports to 9.2 by borrowing them from 9.1.

However, using an older system in a newer Mac may be impossible or very close to it. The classic Mac OS (ie: pre-OSX) relies heavily on the duallity of System and hardware ROM. If the OS pre-dates a particular hardware feature, support for said feature must then be written.

Sure, one may be able to dump the newer drivers/hooks/whatever from the supported OS into the older OS. However, working support is much more than having a driver in place. The OS must know what to do with it, which means writing System code. I'm sure there are folks who have these abilities, but it ain't trivial.

I'm not enough of an expert to know of all the other reasons why 7.5.x cannot run on a Gossamer Mac. I'm quite sure though that I'm only scratching the surface here.

Interestingly OSX doesn't use the hardware ROM. Using OpenFirmware, it loads hardware support from disk. For example, that's why slave drives work fine in rev. A Gossamers under X, the hardware ROM isn't used.

dan k

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Jon
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I dunno if it even matters fo

I dunno if it even matters for this, but you *could* run OS 7.5.5 under MOL on YDL... It seems to boot 9.1 quite well on my G3 after I copied the "Mac OS ROM" file from the OS 9 CD onto the G3 drive so MOL could do New World booting. The file doesn't get put on the Beige because it is still old world. I'm guessing that OS X does something similar and gets around this by booting the G3 into a state where it can load the ROM image, re-point the proper system ROM pointers and then carries merrily along. To do Old World booting under MOL one needs a PCI PMac to make copy of the ROM from, and you ought to own that PMac so that it's legal to use the ROM image. Wink It may be worth look into MOL if any one want to run 7.5.2+ on machines that won't boot it.

I doubt there would be any support to use the PCI card in question though. Tongue

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Well guys, thanks for all the

Well guys, thanks for all the ideas but I'd given up on 7.5.5 after the frirst few posts and decided to try 8.1. I haven't gotten to that point yet since I'm just now getting the G3 set up on this awesome server rack I picked up a few weeks ago for $6!

Check out my image gallery for a shot of the setup.

- Tom

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Joined: Apr 15 2005
Posts: 1
PowerMac G3 DT/266 Gossamer ROM

Excuse me, but I'm speak english.

Podrian decirme donde encontrar una rom de una PowerMac G3 DT/266 o similar? la necesito para emular MacOS 8.1 con Mac-on-linux, pero no poseo esta maquina y no puedo encontrar la rom.

Si pudieran ayudarme envienme un Email.

Gracias

The Czar's picture
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Posts: 287
A dirty little trick

If you are a sucker for punishment, there is a trick you can try to boot an older OS on an newer Mac. When the machine presents you with the dialogue box stating that you need a newer os, hit command-power and bring up the debug prompt. Type G FINDER into it, hit return, and it *may* boot. That's the only way I've ever been able to get an old OS to work on a newer machine.

I've gotten an LC475 to boot into System 6, a Duo 270c to boot into 6.0.8 and a 7100/80 to boot into 7.1 using this trick. It doesn't always work, however, and be sure to try it first with extensions off, because they can cause major headaches.

Even if it does work, it's kinda useless in my opinion. Every time I've done it, the machine has locked up within 15 minutes because of a bus error. It might give you an idea if the machine can even boot with that OS, though.

Good luck!

Cheers,

The Czar

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