When is a deal well and truly broken?

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 52

A moral question...

Frequent readers of this forum have probably read about my failed attempt to swap RavenDarkness (Steve Landon) a CC for some 6500 parts. To summarize, I shipped out the CC, but delivery was rejected due to his presumed arrest.

For the past three weeks, I've had a big box sitting in my living room as I have not even bothered to open it. At this point, I need the box gone and figure that the easiest thing is to just put the CC up for sale and send to a new buyer in the same box.

My question is... can I morally/legally assume that the deal with Mr. Landon is broken and move on. I realize that there is a huge question as to his integrity, but I just want to make sure I'm clean if/when he reenters Mac society.

Thanks...
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doug-doug the mighty's picture
Joined: Apr 14 2004
Posts: 1355
Consider it broken...

Did you ever recieve goods or payment from him? If not, and the CC was returned unopened, I would feel comfrotable in moving on to a new buyer. You tried to ship in good faith and the deal feel through. Standard practice when the deal does not go through (and looks like it never will) is to find a new buyer/trader.

Do so in clear conscience.

--DDTM

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woogie's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 267
I agree

I'm with DDTM on this. Especially since you almost
became involved with a not-so-nice person. Consider
it a learning experience and sell to another buyer.
At least you will probably get a fair shake, whereas
you would have gotten "taken" by the first person.

You met the test of "...bargaining in good faith" by
attempting to ship it to the first party. It came
back to you through no fault of your own. You have
the shipping documents to prove as much. You are OK
on this. Proceed with another sale. Good luck.

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eeun's picture
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Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 1891
Deal: cancelled

With all the speculation and rumour about Mr. Landon put aside, the burden of evidence is in your favour to consider the contract null and void.
Tom Owad has a number of complaints lodged about Raven and his aliases, and there is also - here and elsewhere - a lot of posted complaints about transactions gone bad.
There are ebay sellers out there who reserve the right to not complete transactions with those having negative feedback. I think that ideal can be applied here.
You've kept your cool, proven your integrity to those here and given a good example for others to follow, and I think that no one will fault you for looking for another buyer after all this time and discussion.

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Joined: Aug 3 2004
Posts: 74
I really can't believe you'd

I really can't believe you'd even consider a deal with SL after what's been posted on this site alone. Maybe we should nominate you as the patron saint of mac swapping - having that CC returned may count as your first miracle. (this is where the Mac with the halo would go if there was such an icon)

Out of curiosity, when were delivery attempts made? It might help to know when SL vacated his apartment (or whereever you shipped to). If he's been arrested its got to be for something other than movie/music sharing. If I were a Michigan taxpayer I'd be outraged if money was being spent to jail him on those sort of charges.

Tom

GEOS's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 334
Re: I really can't believe you'd

tmbannon wrote:

I really can't believe you'd even consider a deal with SL after what's been posted on this site alone. Maybe we should nominate you as the patron saint of mac swapping - having that CC returned may count as your first miracle. (this is where the Mac with the halo would go if there was such an icon)

Out of curiosity, when were delivery attempts made? It might help to know when SL vacated his apartment (or whereever you shipped to). If he's been arrested its got to be for something other than movie/music sharing. If I were a Michigan taxpayer I'd be outraged if money was being spent to jail him on those sort of charges.

Tom

Im thinking he made the deal before all of this stuff about RavenD started

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dankephoto's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
Guilty, guilty, guilty!

til proven innocent, is that it? Yikes, SLjr has been found guilty of nothing yet, so mebbe we keep things loose 'til we know otherwise. K?

Besides, the character of the other party is irrelevant in this ethical question. jruschme shipped the item, the other party didn't pay for it, the item fortunately bounced back, the other party hasn't contacted jruschme in a reasonable length of time (over 3 weeks!), deal is kaput.

Move on, there's no obligation to hold something for someone who hasn't made any attempt to claim the deal for weeks now.

just my ¥2,

dan k

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 52
Deliver attemtps

Quote:

I really can’t believe you’d even consider a deal with SL after what’s been posted on this site alone. Maybe we should nominate you as the patron saint of mac swapping - having that CC returned may count as your first miracle.

It's not so much that I sould consider another deal with him (though if a box appeared on my porch with the stuff he promised me *plus* $25 for my lost shipping, I might consider going through with it). It's more about making sure I'm clean in this deal. It sounds like I'm not dealing with someone who is the most scrupulous. As a result, I just want to make sure I don't end up looking like the bad guy for not going through with a deal when he was otherwise "indisposed".

It's clear from the very supportive comments, though, that that is not the case. Thank you all.

Watch for a listing of the CC when I get a moment.

Quote:

Out of curiosity, when were delivery attempts made? It might help to know when SL vacated his apartment (or whereever you shipped to). If he’s been arrested its got to be for something other than movie/music sharing.

The last contact I had with him was on 8/2. (This would be about the time he was going to be going camping, though he made no mention to me that I should delay shipping for that reason.) I shipped the CC on 8/6 and sent him a PM on 8/7 which went unanswered. According to UPS, delivery was attempted on 8/11, 8/12, and 8/13. The 8/13 attempt has the annotation that he had "moved" (no idea how that was determined).

Tom, if you're reading this, does AF keep logs of when a particular user access the site? That might pin down the 8/2-8/7 period a bit.

--John