PowerExpress Revisited

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Joined: Mar 19 2005
Posts: 83
Open Firmware video output

Hawaii Cruiser,

I just realized why you were unsuccessful at getting your PowerExpress to output Open Firmware to your ATI XClaim video card. You typed pci2/@d since you had the video card in the second PCI slot down from the processor, but this was an incorrect address. The correct address for that PCI slot should have been pci1/@e.

If you would, lets try this again, but this time put the ATI card in the first slot closest to the processor labelled A1. Connect a monitor to the video card and boot your PowerExpress into Open Firmware. At the command prompt type the following:
" pci1/@d" output (There should be a space after the first quotation mark)

This time your monitor should come on and display the Open Firmware command prompt.

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 26
Re: Tests for your PowerExpress

Just ran the test with a fresh, DOS formatted floppy disk.

First Attempt:

Open Firmware 2.0d11e1
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > dir fd:,\
A.Tra.s 00F 0 -1
TRASHE~1. 010 163 0
TEST .TXT 020 76E DE
A.DS_.S 00F 0 -1
DS_STO~1. 020 345 1804 ok
0 > boot fd:,\TEST.TXT can't OPEN: fd:,\TEST.TXT
ok
0 > dir fd:,\ can't OPEN the DIR device
ok

Second Attempt:

Open Firmware 2.0d11e1
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > boot fd:,\TEST.TXT evaluating Forth sourcestate not valid
ok

I'm not sure why it won't access the floppy drive more than one time every startup. The only way the boot fd:,\TEST.TXT command worked was when it was the first command entered referencing the floppy drive.

__________________

Captain Z - Mobile Operations Cmdr.
68K Mac Liberation Army

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Posts: 83
A follow-up DOS floppy test

Try this next. Download this bootx file and unstuff it.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/bootx.sit

Then copy the unstuffed bootx file to your DOS formatted floppy disk. Boot your PowerExpress into Open Firmware and type the following:
boot fd:,\BOOTX

What should happen is that your PowerExpress should load the BootX file and display the Apple Logo. I don't know if the PowerExpress built-in video is functional, so it may be necessary to install a video card to see this. Preferably the video card should be in the first PCI slot. If your PowerExpress is actually able to load BootX, BootX will not find the Mach Kernel and will display a circle with a slash through it.

The purpose of this test is to see if your machine is capable of loading an XCOFF boot-loader.

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Posts: 1434
ATI video output works

I reinstalled the PEx motherboard with the ATI card in the first slot and the Acard in the second slot and connected the ATA harddrive directly to the Acard (no slave CD drive), and kept the SCSI disconnected. Everytime I take the PEx out of the case, I also remove the PRAM battery so I can put it in the 9600 motherboard, and when I put the PEx back in again with the battery replaced, the PEx seems to have lost the stop at OF command. I open Zterm and power up the PEx but nothing comes on in Zterm and the chime on the PEx only sounds once, no chime cycle, and then nothing, so I have to restart the PEx while holding down the option-command-OF and it gets back to OF and then I repaste the NVRAM patches and get back to work. This time the Apple display hooked up to the PEx did come on when I did the " pci1/@d" output and then, after that, the OF commands I typed switched to the PEx display and stopped appearing on the 8500 display. Tried setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 but got the "can't Open" again. I forgot to mention that the ATA harddrive with OS X is actually a harrdrive partitioned into three: 1) Macintosh HD with the OS X and OS9, 2) Fixit HD with OS 9, and 3) an empty Storage HD. So there's 3 Systems on that harddrive. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. Perhaps I should be using a harddrive with only OS X on it? I do have the 4GB SCSI harddrive that I could wipe OS 9 off of and then put OS X alone on it and hook it up to the onboard SCSI bus. I'd need to know the command to boot in that situation and there are two onboard SCSI ports 0 and 1--don't know which one I should hook up to.
As for the floppy disk stuff. I removed the floppy drive from the 9600 case awhile ago--never use floppy anymore--and as discussed earlier, the floppy port on my PEx motherboard is the PC version and I don't have a PC floppy drive nor any PC formatted floppy disks. I'll have to wait until I find one on the side of the road to try that. Will the PEx recognize a PC floppy drive?

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8500 improvements

While I was at it, I tried changing the processor upgrade card extensions on my 8500 as well. The 8500 has a Newertechnologies 400mhz G3 processor card in it. I had been using the Maxpowr 2.0.5 extension (c. 2000) in OS 9. I think I downloaded it from the OWC website. It also disabled the onboard L2 cache card and I was averaging about 50 mb/sec. with my RAM. I removed the Maxpowr extension and replaced it with both the XLR8 Machspeed extension and the CPU Director init 1.5f6 and now the RAM is averaging almost 58 mb/sec. Thanks Powersurge9600 for that recommendation.

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Posts: 83
Re: ATI video output works

Whenever you remove your PowerExpress's battery, it will lose its NVRAM settings and therefore will not stop at Open Firmware automatically.

It is excellent that you were able to output Open Firmware to your ATI video card. Your PowerExpress's Open Firmware is not as dysfunctional as I was beginning to fear.

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

Tried setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 but got the "can't Open" again. I forgot to mention that the ATA harddrive with OS X is actually a harrdrive partitioned into three: 1) Macintosh HD with the OS X and OS9, 2) Fixit HD with OS 9, and 3) an empty Storage HD. So there's 3 Systems on that harddrive. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier. Perhaps I should be using a harddrive with only OS X on it?

Having all those partitions would definately change the boot-path and is the reason you currently cannot boot OS X on your PEx. You could find out the correct boot-path you need by putting the Acard back into your 8500 and then using XPostFacto to select the OS X partition. Pay close attention to the boot-device setting XPostFacto displays in its Settings Summary. You will want to know the partition XPostFacto chooses.

Having OS X on a single partitioned hard drive would have made things easier, but is not totally necessary. At least now there is once again a good chance that your PowerExpress will be able to boot OS X. I would stick with using the Acard instead of the SCSI because I know from personal experience that the Acard is very reliable. The Mesh 50-pin SCSI can be problematic when it comes to booting OS X. The external 50-pin SCSI and internal 50-pin SCSI are the same SCSI bus. Looking at how few Forth words the 68-pin SCSI has in Open Firmware, I doubt that it is possible to boot OS X from any drive connect to it.

Also, the XLR8MachSpeed extension and CPU Director extension work great in combination. PowerLogix should include the ability to disable the motherboard L2-cache in CPU Director like it used to in the older Cache Profiler

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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 26
Re: Follow-up DOS Floppy Test

Well, it may be a success on two fronts.

1) It did seem to be loading the bootx thing you put up. No image like you described showed up, though. Here is what it reads out.

0 > boot fd:,\BOOTX loading XCOFF
tsize=24000 dsize=2000 bsize=3A000 entry=5616F78
SECTIONS:
.text 05600000 05600000 00024000 000000D4
.data 05624000 05624000 00002000 000240D4
.bss 05626000 05626000 0003A000 00000000
loading .textCLAIM failed

2) It appears PEx Manhattan's video subsystems seem to be working. I changed the settings to output to the onboard video rather than the serial port (setenv output-device screen), and it does output to the screen. Here's a picture of what the screen looks like when I did the test.

One thing has been bothering me though... I looked at the output shown by the dev / ls command, where it mentions several IC's (Bandit, Grand Central, AWAC, etc.). PowerExpresses use Heathrow instead of Grand Central, and Denali instead of Bandit. Could part of the problems we are having be related to the absence of some of these IC's listed in the ROM?

__________________

Captain Z - Mobile Operations Cmdr.
68K Mac Liberation Army

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Posts: 83
Re: Follow-up DOS Floppy Test

It is good to see that your PEx Manhattan is able to load an XCOFF boot-loader. On my 9600 and G3 Tower (Revision B, Open Firmware 2.0f1), the BootX would display the Apple Logo just after "loading .text". On my G3 AIO (Revision C, Open Firmware 2.4) it would load the BootX, but say "CLAIM failed" just as your Manhattan did.

It would be interesting if you installed OS X on a hard drive in another Old World Mac with the aid of XPostFacto and then installed the drive into your PEx Manhattan. With OS X Public Beta you could try booting the installation CD directly. According to Ryan Remple, his custom version of BootX installed by XPostFacto requires at least 96MB of RAM to load OS X. You would need to add at least 32MB to your system.

Hawaii Cruiser's PowerExpress has a newer version of Open Firmware and in his Device Tree, it lists the names Denali and Heathrow to the right of Bandit 1 and 2 and Grand Central. Whether these name contradictions would affect booting the Mac OS ROM, I don't really know. It may also be possible that the Mac OS ROM on these development prototype boards is simply not complete yet and therefore not bootable.

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Posts: 1434
OS X second attempt

I removed the old Quantum 4GB ATA harddrive from the PM6500, put it in the 9600 connected to the Acard, reinitialized it with only one partition and installed OS X Jaguar on it via Xpostfacto, so it only has X and no other system. Oh shucks, I just remembered that I didn't remove the fake system from the Core Services...But anyway, I put the PEx back in the case with the ATI card in slot 1 and Acard in slot 2 and tried the boot again, but no luck:

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > boot DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFF00300 at %SRR0: 0000000P %SRR1: 0000000ß
ok

Should I go back and remove the fake system and try again? Is it worth the effort?

Captain Z, if you're looking for more 3.3v RAM, here's an auction ending soon:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11151&item=5195964935&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Joined: Mar 19 2005
Posts: 83
Re: OS X second attempt

The fake system only affects when booting the Mac OS ROM. It isn't a problem for your PowerExpress.

When trying to boot OS X on you 4GB hard drive, try first settting auto-boot to true, followed by a restart.
setenv auto-boot? true
reset-all

I have noticed on Beige G3s auto-boot must be set to true in order to boot OS X successfully. Otherwise it will say "Claim failed". This is worth a try on your PowerExpress.

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Joined: Mar 19 2005
Posts: 83
PC Floppy Drive

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

As for the floppy disk stuff. I removed the floppy drive from the 9600 case awhile ago--never use floppy anymore--and as discussed earlier, the floppy port on my PEx motherboard is the PC version and I don't have a PC floppy drive nor any PC formatted floppy disks. I'll have to wait until I find one on the side of the road to try that. Will the PEx recognize a PC floppy drive?

I suspect a PC floppy drive would work just fine in your PowerExpress. Captain Z's PEx Manhattan has a PC floppy drive and it works. I guess Apple was toying with the idea of making their systems more CHRP compliant by using standard PC components.

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Joined: Mar 19 2005
Posts: 83
Acard IDE1

So that you are directing Open Firmware to the correct hard drive ID, make sure the 4GB drive connected to the Acard is set to Master and that the cable is plugged into the IDE connector labelled IDE1 on the Acard. This is the IDE connector closest to the LED header on the Acard.

I wanted to make sure of this so that we rule out all other possibilities of why your PEx can't boot OS X.

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true boot

The true boot pursuit route don't give a hoot:

0 > setenv auto-boot? true ok
0 > reset-all no active package

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > boot DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFF00300 at %SRR0: 0000000P %SRR1: 0000000ß
ok

I get that "no active package" now after BOOT and BYE too. Sounds a bit emasculated. Harddrive at master in IDE1. Yes, don't rule out the possibility that I'm making all the little mistakes, as I've already shown possible. Computers are such sensitive beasts.

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More Open Firmware exploration

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

I get that "no active package" now after BOOT and BYE too.

Did you start getting that message after your re-installed the NVRAM patches in your PowerExpress? Perhaps when you pasted that script in, something did not go quite right.

I would like to see if your PowerExpress can access the hard drive connected to your Acard and display the contents of the BootX file, instead of trying to actually run it. Try these commands
load pci1/@e/@0:6
load-base
loadsize
dump

If that does not work try this:
" pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev (There should be a space after the first quotation mark.)
load
load-base
loadsize
dump

If you can get a hold of a PC floppy drive that would be excellent. I would like to see if your PowerExpress can load files from a floppy drive like Captain Z's PEx Manhattan is able.

I finally got around to working on my 9600 and installed my new hard drive. I took pictures of the rear of my case and will put those on my page soon. Additionally, I removed resistor 31 on the motherboard, which has disabled the motherboard Level-2 cache. Now that slow cache is completely disabled and does not even appear in Open Firmware.

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Posts: 1434
Still no go

I repasted the patches and still get the no package message, and the load commands go nowhere"

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > load pci1/@e/@0:6 DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFF00300 at %SRR0: 0000000P %SRR1
: 0000000ß
ok

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok

There's no prompt after the last ok. I repasted the patches and now it's back to Default Catch! for BYE and BOOT, but I still get the no active package for setenv auto-boot? true.

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More Open Firmware commands

I have spent much time examining the Open Firmware on my Macs, specifically looking at the words associated with the commands boot and load. On your PowerExpress, if you would, please look up these words and email me everything that is displayed in a Microsoft Word document.

see boot
see boot|load
(The character between boot and load is the character above the Return Key on your keyboard)
see !set-restart
see (load)
see init-program
see “ load “
(There should be spaces between load and the quotation marks)
see “ boot “ (There should be spaces between boot and the quotation marks)

Secondly, see if these commands produce any useful result on your PowerExpress.
[b]dev pci1/@e/@0:6
“ pci1/@e/@0:6

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Posts: 1434
lalala

Nope, there's no responsive prompt after the Default Catch. I have to restart at that point. I guess the Public Beta X isn't archived on the web anywhere?

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Posts: 26
Re: More Open Firmware Commands

I ran down those commands you listed and posted the results below. So far, I've had no luck getting anywhere with the OSX Public Beta since the system doesn't seem to be able to read the CD-ROM drive (an old Apple 600i)

Open Firmware 2.0d11e1
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > see boot
: boot
" boot " boot|load init-program go ; ok

0 > see boot|load
: boot|load
_reboot-command pack drop ['] (init-program) to init-program carret word
count (load) ; ok

0 > see !set-restart defer !set-restart
: (!set-restart)
" um
" 0 do
dup i + c@ nv-restart i + nv-c!
loop
drop dup nv-restart cell+ nv-c! 0 ?do
dup i + c@ nv-restart 5 + i + nv-c!
loop
drop ; ok

0 > see (load)
: (load)
state-valid off parse-load _load-file 2!
begin
_load-file 2@ bl left-parse-string _load-device 2! _load-file 2! _load-file
@ while/if
_load-device 2@ ['] open-dev catch if
2drop false
then
dup if
dup close-dev
then
else
true
then
until
_load-device 2@ $load ; ok

0 > see init-program defer init-program
: (init-program)
loadaddr " \ " comp 0= if
" evaluating Forth source" type loadaddr loadsize evaluate loadaddr loadmapsize
do-unmap
else
loadaddr 2c@-be F108 = if
" evaluating FCode" type loadaddr 1 byte-load loadaddr loadmapsize
do-unmap
else
loadaddr 2c@-be 1DF = if
" loading XCOFF" type 0 0 "xcoff-loader" $open-package " init-program"
2 pick $call-method close-package
else
" unrecognized Client Program format" type
then
then
then
; ok

0 > see " load "
: "
{0} `next-str dup 0! 1!
begin
22 parse tuck 0 ?do
i over + c@ 1@ i + c!
loop
drop 1@ + 1! getc 2! 2@ bl <= while/if
true
else
2@ case
28 of
begin
getc dup 2! 0= while/if
bad-"
then
2@ 29 <> while/if
2@ h#10 digit if
4 lshift getc h#10 digit 0= if
bad-"
then
or 1@ c! 1@ char+ 1!
else
drop
then
repeat
endof
22 of
22 1@ c! 1@ char+ 1!
endof
bad-"
endcase
false
then
until
0@ 1@ over - state? if

then
; can't OPEN: AAPL,ROM
ok

0 > see " boot "
: "
{0} `next-str dup 0! 1!
begin
22 parse tuck 0 ?do
i over + c@ 1@ i + c!
loop
drop 1@ + 1! getc 2! 2@ bl <= while/if
true
else
2@ case
28 of
begin
getc dup 2! 0= while/if
bad-"
then
2@ 29 <> while/if
2@ h#10 digit if
4 lshift getc h#10 digit 0= if
bad-"
then
or 1@ c! 1@ char+ 1!
else
drop
then
repeat
endof
22 of
22 1@ c! 1@ char+ 1!
endof
bad-"
endcase
false
then
until
0@ 1@ over - state? if

then
; can't OPEN: AAPL,ROM
ok

0 > FFF00300 load-base ok
2 > FFF00300 3000 dump
FFF00300: DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFF00300 at %SRR0: FF80B508 %SRR1: 0000B070
ok
0 >

http://www.captainz.net/pex/commands_5-19.txt - this link fixes the tabs that are erased posting here.

__________________

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68K Mac Liberation Army

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Posts: 83
PEx Manhattan Open Firmware Words and Public Beta

Thanks for looking up those words on your PEx Manhattan. I will compare them against Hawaii Cruiser's PEx and my Beige G3s.

When attempting to boot the Public Beta installation CD, the partition you need to direct Open Firmware to is partition 9. The boot-path should be like this.
boot scsi-ext/@3:9
This example directs Open Firmware to the external Mesh SCSI, device ID 3. Make sure it is connected to the external SCSI bus, not the internal.

Usually Open Firmware works well with the Apple 600i (4X) CD-ROM drive. When installing OS X onto my 5500, the stock 8X CD-ROM drive would not boot OS X, so I switched it with an Apple 4X drive and achieved success. Any boot troubles you experience with the built-in SCSI probably has to do with its Forth methods.

If you have a Mac ATA card or bootable SCSI card that might be useful since they have their own Forth methods which are known to work.

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Re: lalala

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

Nope, there's no responsive prompt after the Default Catch. I have to restart at that point. I guess the Public Beta X isn't archived on the web anywhere?

I can probably get you the Public Beta, or maybe even Server 1.0, if you ned it.

__________________

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Posts: 83
More things to try in Open Firmware

I have some things I would like to try for both Captain Z's PEx Manhattan and Hawaii Cruiser's PowerExpress. Since there are differences between the Open Firmware of the two machines, I will divide this posting in two for each one.

First, Captain Z's PEx Manhattan:

When trying to boot the Mac OS X Public Beta CD, make sure the Apple 4X SCSI CD-ROM drive is connected to the external "Mesh" SCSI bus. The other faster and newer SCSI bus (pci1/53c860@11) has only a few Forth words and I don't believe it is bootable from within Open Firmware. Therefore, set the 4X SCSI CD-ROM to ID 3 and type boot scsi-ext/@3:9

If you have an IDE CD-ROM drive, you should try both ATA buses. The drive should be set to Master and the two boot-paths would be:
boot ata0/@0:9
boot ata1/@0:9

If you have another Old World Mac, you could try installing OS X onto a SCSI or IDE hard drive and then connect it to your PEx Manhattan. If the drive has one main partition, then whatever the ID, always direct Open Firmware to partition 6.

Try copying all the code from the following file and pasting these new word definitions into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm. Then type boot /AAPL,ROM. If the machine reboots, enter all those commands in again and then trying typing dev /AAPL,ROM load.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/cz-boot-words.txt
These word definitions make a few changes some of which to match Open Firmware 2.4.

If none of these things work, try copying this different NVRAM script and pasting it into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm. Once the script is entered, type Control C and then type nvstore. Afterward, type reset-all to restart your PowerExpress.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/pex-nvram-2.txt
Once this is all entered, try booting the Mac OS ROM and OS X again to see if this makes any difference.

Second, Hawaii Cruiser's PowerExpress:

Try copying all the code from the following file and pasting these new word definitions into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/hc-boot-words.txt
Then type boot pci1/@e/@0:6
If that does work enter these word definitions again, but this time type boot /AAPL,ROM or dev /AAPL,ROM load.

If none of this works, try copying this different NVRAM script and pasting it into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm. Once the script is entered, type Control C and then type nvstore. Afterward, type reset-all to restart your PowerExpress.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/pex-nvram-2.txt
Once this is all entered, try booting the Mac OS ROM and OS X again to see if this makes any difference.

If still none of this makes any difference, try setenv pci-probe-list FFFFFFFE
This should tell Open Firmware not to probe the VCI Bus or PCI Bus 2. This will simplify things for Open Firmware. Once you do this, try booting the Mac OS ROM again and Mac OS X.

Lastly, I posted an image of the rear of my 9600's case here:
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/index4.html

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0 > boot pci1/@e/@0:6 CLAIM failed

Hawaii Cruiser,

The "CLAIM failed" message you got on your PowerExpress after putting in the different NVRAM patches is actually better than the "Default catch FF000300" error you constantly were receiving.

On Beige G3s, when you are trying to boot OSX, often auto-boot? must be set to true or otherwise typing boot you will get the "CLAIM failed" message. Stopping at the Open Firmware command prompt on these machines for some reason prevents them from booting OS X.

Therefore try this:
setenv auto-boot? true
setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6
setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v
reset-all

This will set auto-boot to true and when your machine restarts, it will automatically try to boot OS X. If the screen does come on then it probably did not work. In that case restart holding down Apple + Option + O + F to stop at Open Firmware and then type setenv auto-boot? false

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PEx Manhattan Floppy Boot

Captain Z,

I believe I know how to get your PEx Manhattan to actually display something other than Open Firmware. First, if you haven't already, copy this NVRAM script and paste it into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/pex-nvram-2.txt

Once it is finished being entered, press Control C and then type nvstore. Next type reset-all to restart your PEx Manhattan. Then download this different version of BootX and unstuff it. Copy it to a PC formatted floppy disk.
http://www.geocities.com/powersurge9600/BOOTX-2.sit

After you have done this, insert the disk into the PEx Manhattan floppy drive and then type the following:
setenv boot-device fd:,\BOOTX
setenv boot-command 0 bootr

Be sure to have the floppy inserted and then type 0 bootr. If all goes as I believe it will, your PEx Manhattan will automatically begin loading the BOOTX file and will display the Mac OS X boot screen on the built-in video. At least it does on my G3 AIO.

** I edited this post to fix a mistake and to change some of the procedure. I discovered while testing on my G3 AIO that typing 0 bootr instead of boot will eliminate the "CLAIM failed" message at the Open Firmware command prompt. This means you should not have to set auto-boot? to true in order to load BOOTX successfully.

Additionally, if you connect a hard drive that has Mac OS X already installed, you can direct BOOTX to the mach_kernel such as this:
setenv boot-file ata0/@0:6,\mach_kernel (IDE Bus 1, Drive set to Master)
setenv boot-file ata1/@0:6,\mach_kernel (IDE Bus 2, Drive set to Master)
setenv boot-file scsi-ext/@0:6,\mach_kernel (External "Mesh" SCSI Bus, Drive set to ID 0)

This would work best if you use XPostFacto to install 10.2 or 10.3 onto another Old World Mac, and then connect that drive to your PEx Manhattan. Typing 0 bootr should tell Open Firmware to load BOOTX from the floppy drive and then BOOTX will load the Mac OS X kernel from the location you indicated in the boot-file setting.

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Posts: 1434
Re: Re: 0 > boot pci1/@e/@0:6 CLAIM failed

I'm doing some other stuff with my 8500, so I don't have the PEx setup right now. I'll try this latest suggestion tomorrow (Sunday) hopefully. The 50 million dollar question: why, if the screen does come on, does that mean it probably did not work?

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Posts: 1434
new pics

I added a few more pics of the motherboard to my image gallery, including closeups of the ROM chips.

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Posts: 83
Re: 0 > boot pci1/@e/@0:6 CLAIM failed

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

The 50 million dollar question: why, if the screen does come on, does that mean it probably did not work?

If Mac OS X were actually being loaded, the screen connected to your ATI XClaim video card in slot A1 would come on almost immediately. BootX, which is the boot-loader that loads the Mac OS X kernel, initializes the screen connected to the first video card it finds. If the screen does not come on, you can bet it either has had a "Default catch" or "CLAIM failed" error.

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Re: new pics

Looking at the new pictures you posted, I entered the motherboard's serial number into TattleTech, which says it was manufactured on 3/12/97 in Singapore.

The serial number on the back of DigiBarn's PowerExpress indicates it was assembled on 9/17/97 in Elk Grove, CA. This is interesting because DigiBarn's PowerExpress is newer and yet it does not have the built-in video.

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you say deblocker, I say deblinker...=0

Did the "true" entry et voila:

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? true ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > reset-all CLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM
failedCLAIM failedCan't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFFFFFF3 at %SRR0: FF80B6B8 %S
RR1: 00001070

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 >

The video did not come on, but as you can see it returns to the OF prompt after all the deblocker stuff (I did not restart to get back to the prompt, nor did the computer).

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Another NVRAM patch

I think we are making some progress. The last NVRAM patch seems to have made a difference. It came from Apple's System Disk control panel 3.3.1 and was intended for Gossamer Macs, but I made a few changes specific for your PowerExpress.

I have a few more ideas to try. First, stop at the Open Firmware command prompt and type the following:
dev pci1/@e/@0:6
" pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev
init-deblocker
boot

If this does not get BootX finally loaded, copy this third NVRAM patch and paste it into the Open Firmware command prompt via ZTerm.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/pex-nvram-3.txt
Once this has been entered, perform the usual commands:
Control C
nvstore
setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6
reset-all

Once the machine is restarted, try typing boot. If that does not work, try this command again.
dev pci1/@e/@0:6
" pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev
init-deblocker
boot

Lastly, if none of the above has worked try setting auto-boot? to true.
setenv autoboot? true

Yesterday, I emailed DigiBarn asking them questions about their PowerExpress such as does it boot the Mac OS? I also explained the current situation with several of the PowerExpress Macs people have on this forum. Hopefully they will respond to my questions.

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Any other PowerExpress owners out there? JT (Trash80toG4)?

So far, Hawaii Cruiser and Captain Z are the only two PowerExpress owners I know of who have gotten their PowerExpress Macs at least to Open Firmware. I know though, that there are other PowerExpress owners out there.

JT (Trash80toG4), have you tried stopping your PowerExpress at the Open Firmware command prompt? Since your machine makes a startup chime, it most likely will make it to Open Firmware. I would be interested in what version of Open Firmware your machine has, its Device Tree, device aliases, and environment settings. Enter these commands:

dev / ls
printenv
devalias
dump-device-tree

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Response from DigiBarn about their PowerExpress

I got a response from DigiBarn regarding their PowerExpress.

Quote:

According to the source who donated the system, who was a very senior Apple manager associated with the project, this system boots a special version of MacOS (7+?). He donated it given my assurance I would not reveal his name "under penalty of.. well, you know".
Let me see if I can get this machine booted. He did say this one was one of 50 complete units made and 49 of which went to the crusher, hence my interest in having it. The donor described it as an attempted "Avid killer".

Apparently, the PowerExpress model DigiBarn has would have been the final version. If this is true, then the built-in video was not going to be included.

DigiBarn said they would get back to me with more information about the system.

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Hmmm...

So there were 50 complete units and now there's only one. I wonder how many prototypes are still floating around and why didn't they also go to the "crusher?" Should I be trying to boot from an OS 7? I think I've got 7.5 and the Powercomputing version of 7.6.1.

Here's the NVRAM patch II results (another no go):

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > set-defaults ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? false ok
0 > setenv use-nvramrc? true ok
0 > setenv load-base 600000 ok
0 > setenv diag-device ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > nvedit
ok
0 > nvstore ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > reset-all no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? true ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed

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A possible workaround for the "CLAIM failed" error

Hawaii Cruiser,

While thinking of possible ways you might finally get at least BootX loaded on your PowerExpress, I figured out how to get around the "CLAIM failed" error on Beige G3 systems when at the Open Firmware command prompt. Hopefully this will work for your PowerExpress too.

Stop your PowerExpress at the Open Firmware command prompt. If you haven't already, go ahead and set auto-boot? to false. Also, make sure the boot-device is pci1/@e/@0:6. Once you have done these things type the following at the Open Firmware prompt:

0 bootr (That's a zero, in case you are wondering.)

I am praying that this simple command will finally get things going. If unfortunately it does not, I have another idea to get BootX loaded on your PowerExpress. I have tested this on my systems and it works.

The Open Firmware on “Old World

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0 bootr

no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? false ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > 0 bootr CLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM fa
iledCLAIM failedCan't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6 can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFFFFFF3
at %SRR0: FF80CB10 %SRR1: 0000B070
ok
0 >

I have Toast Lite 5.2 and a Sony CDRW and a Que CDRW.

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OMG! Hold everything...

I wanted to test some devices using the 9600 motherboard, so I took out the PEx and replaced the 9600 motherboard, and once I had everything setup, I suddenly noticed that the ATA 80 wire harddrive cable has tears right at the blue connector that goes into the Acard. The first four lines on the redline side and seven wires on the opposite side are torn! Please forgive me for not noticing this earlier. I should make a point of always using bright light to see what I'm doing when inside a computer, but usually I'm down below my desk, so the light's not usually so good. So after I finish what I need to do with the 9600, I'll try everything already tried with a new cable on the PEx. I was wondering if it might be a problem like this. Da*n D*mn *amn!!!

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Re: OMG! Hold everything...

That's alright. The problem with most SCSI or ATA ribbon cables is that the manufacturers do not include straps to safely pull the cable from the socket. When there is no strap, you have to pull on the cable itself, which after several times can tear the cable and break the connector.

In its systems, Apple almost always includes high quality SCSI and ATA cables that have straps.

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Loading BootX from an ISO-9660 CD-ROM

I noticed that your PowerExpress is outputting this message as soon as you enter Open Firmware.

Quote:

no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??

I am not sure why it is doing this, but try re-applying the second NVRAM patch again to correct this problem.
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/pex-nvram-2.txt

I created a webpage for you showing how the ISO-9660 CD-ROM with BootX should be set up. I have Toast Titanium 5.2.3, so I am not sure how much your version differs from mine, but hopefully it is similar enough.

Here is the webpage:
http://www.geocities.com/pm9600g4/toast-iso9660-bootx.html

You will need to download the BootX file. This version of BootX comes from XPostFacto 3.1.
http://www.geocities.com/powersurge9600/BOOTX-2.sit

You will need to connect a CD-ROM drive to your PowerExpress. You could try connecting a CD-ROM drive to the Acard, the built-in IDE, or the external 50-pin SCSI. If one bus does not seem to work, try another.

Once you have a CD-ROM drive connected, enter Open Firmware. The boot-device will need to be the ISO-9660 CD-ROM with BootX. Here as some examples of possible boot-device paths.
setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@2:,\BOOTX (In this example, an IDE CD-ROM drive is connected to the Acard. It is on the second channel and is set to Master.)
setenv boot-device ata0/@0:,\BOOTX (In this example, an IDE CD-ROM drive is connected to the built-in IDE bus 1 and is set to Master.)
setenv boot-device ata1/@0:,\BOOTX (In this example, an IDE CD-ROM drive is connected to the built-in IDE bus 2 and is set to Master.)
setenv boot-device scsi-ext/@3:,\BOOTX (In this example, a SCSI CD-ROM drive is connected to the external SCSI bus and is set to ID 3.)

Once you have set your boot-device, next you need to set the boot-file. Enter this command.
setenv boot-file pci1/@e/@0:6,\mach_kernel

Type reset-all to restart your PowerExpress so that it is freshly started. Then type 0 bootr to hopefully boot OS X. If for some unknown reason it states “CLAIM failed

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retries with new cable 1

I put the PEx back in and connected the Acard with a new 80 wire cable.
I also removed the PRAM battery for about 10 minutes, hoping I could, that way, start again from square one, but when I turned on the PEx it opened OF by itself and it seems to be at the place where I left off, starting with "no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??" before the usual prompt sequence. I started going through this thread to see what commands I could retry, but I still get the Claim failed. But here's something exciting: I hooked up the monitor to the onboard video port and tried the " vci0/@b" output and the monitor came on displaying the OF! Cool!
I checked my Toast Lite and it doesn't do the ISO thing.

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ISO-9660 Toast image

See if Toast Lite can burn this image I created of the ISO-9660 CD with BootX. Download and unstuff it.
http://www.geocities.com/powersurge9600/BOOTX.toast.sit

1. Open Toast Lite.
2. Click the Other button and select Disc Image.
3. Then click the Select button and choose the BOOTX.toast image.
4. If it is able to open the image, then burn it to a CD-RW or CD-R.

Remember most CD-ROM drives less than 24X cannot read CD-RW discs. If you try to connect an older SCSI CD-ROM drive to your PowerExpress, you will likely need to burn this CD image to a CD-R disc.

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Unfortunately, there's no "ot

Unfortunately, there's no "other" button in Toast Lite. It's just a button that brings up an ad for Titanium and a link to buying it.

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a question

So, since at this point we have abandoned the attempt to boot into the Apple ROM, does that mean it is unlikely that this motherboard will ever boot into OS 9?

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Re: a question

I haven't totally given up hope that your PowerExpress may actually boot the Mac OS ROM, but it seems to me getting OS X running is more plausible. With both your PowerExpress and Captain Z's PEx Manhattan, attempting to boot the Mac OS ROM causes the system to immediately restart. I am not at all sure why it does this. Perhaps the Mac OS ROM on both machines is incomplete. Both your and Captain Z's PowerExpress have development versions of Open Firmware which seem to be buggy. It is a possibility that these machines were intended for Open Firmware debugging purposes. If your machine was fully functional, we would have had OS X running by now instead of so many "Default Catch" and "CLAIM failed" errors.

I know OS X originally had support for PowerExpress Macs and that Ryan Remple has included the necessary kernel extensions in XPostFacto. All we need is to get BootX loaded from a disk, which will then load the Mac OS X Kernel. If we can get OS X running, then at least you could run OS 9 in the Classic Environment or with a program called SheepShaver.

I would be more excited to have OS X running than OS 9, since it is superior in many ways. Also, since OS X's kernel is open source, overcoming possible problems with your PowerExpress would be easier than overcoming problems in OS 9.

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First Boot BOOTX

Well, I created the CD with BOOTX and put it in my Hitachi DVD drive attached to the second channel of the Acard and followed the setenv command directions above, did reset-all and after the restart and prompt typed 0 bootr. After about ten seconds I hear the DVD drive engage and then the monitor hooked up to the PEx ATI card comes on with the OS X apple (see my image gallery: First Boot BOOTX 5_31_05). Then the OF finishes.

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > 0 bootr loading XCOFF
tsize=1E000 dsize=3000 bsize=39000 entry=561DEF8
SECTIONS:
.text 05600000 05600000 0001E000 000000D4
.data 0561E000 0561E000 00003000 0001E0D4
.bss 05621000 05621000 00039000 00000000
loading .text, done..
loading .data, done..
clearing .bss, done..

At the end of this OF readout, the monitor image gets corrupted with the large bands across the front (see my image gallery: Green BOOTX and Ham). Then that's it, it locks there at that point. A good start, I hope.

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setenv

One thing I was wondering about is, the device on the second channel of the Acard is pci1/@e/@2:, and the device on the first channel is pci1/@e/@0:6. I would naturally think that the first channel device would rather be pci1/@e/@1, or am I misconstruing the meaning of the last number?

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Cool!

Wow - if you're getting the grey Apple and getting to open firmware, and not getting all those previous error messages, that's progress indeed. Perhaps powersurge9600 will have ideas for getting you the rest of the way there.

Matt

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Excellent!

I am very pleased that BootX finally loaded. The next thing you should do is hold down Apple + V immediately after you type 0 bootr. Doing so will tell BootX to be verbose. It will tell you every step it completes and display any errors it encounters. Please write down what text is displayed or take a picture of the screen so I will know what is the error.

Quote:

One thing I was wondering about is, the device on the second channel of the Acard is pci1/@e/@2:, and the device on the first channel is pci1/@e/@0:6. I would naturally think that the first channel device would rather be pci1/@e/@1, or am I misconstruing the meaning of the last number?

The boot-device pci1/@e/@2:,\BOOTX directs Open Firmware to the location of BootX. The boot-file pci1/@e/@0:6,\mach_kernel directs BootX to the location of the Mac OS X kernel. The numbers @2 and @0 are the drive IDs and do not refer specifically to Channel 1 or Channel 2 on the Acard.

A drive that is set to Master and connected to Channel 1 will be ID 0.
A drive that is set to Slave and connected to Channel 1 will be ID 1.
A drive that is set to Master and connected to Channel 2 will be ID 2.
A drive that is set to Slave and connected to Channel 2 will be ID 3.

The fact that you are first booting from drive ID 2 and then from drive ID 0, partition 6 does not matter. These numbers are nothing more than drive IDs and do not have to go in numeric order. The boot-file does not even have to come from a drive connected to the Acard. It could come from a drive connected to the built-in IDE or external SCSI.

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command+v

I tried the command+v after the 0 bootr, but nothing new happens. I wasn't sure if you meant to do that on the 8500 keyboard or the PEx keyboard, so I tried both and nothing new. The video bars still come across the BOOTX and it looks like it hangs there.

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Re: command+v

For now, try using Open Firmware in single machine mode. Enter these commands:

setenv input-device kbd
setenv output-device pci1/@d
reset-all

Now when your PowerExpress starts up, it will display Open Firmware to the screen attached to the ATI Xclaim video card. The input-device will be the keyboard attached to the PowerExpress. Once this is done, type 0 bootr and immediately afterward hold down command + v. BootX should display text informing you what it is doing each step of the way.

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BOOTX via PEx keyboard

Nope, no difference. Did the changes above, and the command+v after 0 bootr. No extra readouts. Just does the same as before except all on the PEx monitor.

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Re: BOOTX via PEx keyboard

That is unusual. Make sure you hold down command+v the entire time BootX is loading. Don't let go until the machine gets as far as it can.

That version of BootX is from XPostFacto 3.1. Ryan Remple made it extra verbose so that when command+v is held down it will display everything it is doing.

How soon after displaying the Apple logo does the screen get corrupted? Does it display the sprocket animation? Is there any indication that the hard drive containing OS X is being accessed? Having a LED connected to the header on the Acard is useful for determining disk activity.