Would the Perfroma 610 Dos Card work on an LC 575?

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Considering that the Dos card plugs into the CPU socket, and not the PDS, shouldn't this work? I know the 575 board does not have a video input connector, but with an additional video out board for the PDS slot, there could be the ability to output the dos information on a seperate screen, theoretically... or am I totally mistaken? Any ideas?

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Re: Would the Perfroma 610 Dos Card work on an LC 575?

Is this the 'Houdini'? The Macintosh DOS Compatibility Card only fits in an '040 PDS slot, not an LC one. I guess I haven't seen the one that plugs into the CPU socket. If you have pictures or a link, I'd like to see one.

Jack

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Re: Would the Perfroma 610 Dos Card work on an LC 575?

BeniD82 wrote:

Considering that the Dos card plugs into the CPU socket, and not the PDS, shouldn't this work?

The 610 DOS card does plug into a PDS slot.

Information on the Houdini cards here

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Re: Would the Perfroma 610 Dos Card work on an LC 575?

Whew! For a moment there I thought I missed out on something. Pity one couldn't squeeze a C/Q 650 or 6100 in a CC...but then again, why would you WANT to run DOS? Wink

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Well, I've done some research

Well, I've done some research in the meanwhile; you're right with the Centris/Quadra 6100 card, that won't work as those models use the PPC PDS slot (or, can't remember right now, '040) which won't work nevertheless with an LC series board i.e. LC575 in a Mystic. Theoretically the card from a Performa 640 Dos compatible *could* work on an LC 575, as the 640 Dos Compatible card plugs directly into the 68040 processor socket, rather than the PDS, having both the IBM Clone and Motorola CPU on the daughterboard. --BUT--, thing is, this card does not have a connector for external video out (i.e. to hook up an external screen), as it does all the video output via a special connector that, well, piggybacks with the internal circuits of the Performa 640. Hence, card would work, but there wouldn't be any picture or sound which of course makes all that pointless. The only way to get this working is if you'd have a 640 Board with that particular connector, the Compatibility card, doing Takky Surgery on your CC. You'd also need the VGA mod so the card could output the video signal properly... *scratches head*...

For the reasons why someone would want to do something crazy like this to an old Mac, I've personally got lots of old dos games that would be running just fine on a 486DX 66MHz cpu, that including all my Mac stuff would make the ultimate game machine... hehe! No need for emulators, or trying to get Dos working with a modern system (in regard of i.e. sound, video etc.). There ya go! Hehe

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630 dos too....

I believe the LC 630 Dos will work too... I think I still have one w/ Cyrix 66MHz (*shudders* oooohhhh!) Does anyone else agree that the Cyrix Chips truly suck?

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You're right, it will. They'r

You're right, it will. They're actually pretty much identical as they're from the same series. I thought that the Cyrix CPU on that board actually performed better than the 486DX... hehe... but hey, they both were good in their time...! ... Certainly not comparing to todays standards...

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DOS, Cyrix, et.al.

The Cyrix performance was on par with the Intel chip at a tremendous savings, but there were a few compatibility issues on the Cyrix running Windows. I'm glad to hear there is an alternative to the Houdini since I didn't want to give up my accelerator on my 6100, and it will be worth looking in to.

I, too, have plenty of old DOS based games and would like to get them in use again, but have been hampered due to my refusal to buy a x86 machine. Could you possibly get a A/V type card to push your DOS screen onto the TV?

Jack

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I don't have any of the discu

I don't have any of the discussed cards on hand, it is all just what I've researched so far. The Performa 640/LC 630 Dos Card uses a special connector that includes Video and Audio Output in one cable connected to the logic board. It doesn't even have an external connector on the case (meaning you won't be able to tell that the Mac has both an 040 and x86 "pumping inside" unless you open it up, the case that is). So I don't think an A/V card would work unless you have that particular logic board. -- BUT -- I don't know whether the A/V card also has that particular internal connector for video/sound on it... As for the 610 Card (I think that's Houdini I), it has an external connector for video (it used video looping with special cable for output rather than internal connector humbug). The 610 card doesn't have any sound support though, as far as I know (SoundBlaster Compatible anyways). The 640 Card does have SoundBlaster 16, Yamaha FM and I think OPL3 output capability, (I guess not MPU330 Wavetable, but hey, SB16 is fair enough) if you have the addon card!

One could still just utilize one of the PCI PPC boards in their Takky and then try to find one of the Reply or Orange Micro Dos Compatible cards (you'll find them on on eBay every now and then), they're also a lot faster than those, I'd say, first generation cards. And "...a fast 5500/6500 motherboard, plus a good complement of RAM, plus
an installed copy of RealPC or VirtualPC, would allow one to play DOS
games in emulation, pretty much as fast as the 33/66 486 CPU on the
640's DOS card ..." quote Matt.

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610 Card

The DOS Compatibility Card for Macintosh (whew! that's a mouthful) is designed for the 6100, but fits in any of the 601 PDS slots when you remove the right angle adapter. Mine has a SB compatible expansion card. The manual shows a connection to a second monitor and can have separate Mac and PC screens, a rather forward thinking innovation. I suspect that, like the older x86 motherboards, the CPU is upgradable to a 'decent' speed as well, but that is a different discussion.

As for the Reply or Orange, I have yet to see one pop up on eBay in the recent memory, but I'm not at it every day. But, like you wrote, if you already have a fast board, the DOS card is a moot point as emulation software has become much better over the years.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that at some break point it is more effective use another hardware/software solution rather than trying to force it. If you have a Power CC, then I'd really go with a software solution. If, on the other hand, you have a '040 Takky, the hardware may work, but I don't know how effective it would be considering all the modification it would take.

My .02 USD

Jack

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well in response to this, i h

well in response to this, i have one of those performa 640cd dos compatibles, but since reformatting the computer, i still have not figured out how to setup the software. anyone have any ideas on how to get it to work?, Also on the 640 dos compatible, there was a covered port, which is the same as a mac monitor port, but is actually a joystick port,

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with the '040, you could drop

with the '040, you could drop a 586 into the slot where the 486 is and use that to power the dos card. (there were 586 CPU's that fit into the 486 CPU Slot) I did this before with the Sony CD Server http://www.applefritter.com/node/4771#comment-9048, that was until I hacked it Smile anyway, it ran like a charm! it was faster and was clocked at 100MHz. it would even do Win98 faster than my PowerComputing PowerBase at 200MHz 603e. (probably because the 603e's sucked (not the 603), the e' series of the 603 were slower than a 601 at equivelent speed). So why not find either an upgraded 486 board with the 586 in it, or find a 586 Proc that fits into a 486 slot. That would be the best way to go as far as DOS mode.

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Agreed..

Many of the Pentium 1 chips up to 133MHz could be put in place of the 486s. It was at the time an economical replacement during the 200MHz days. Since the board was proprietary, I was unsure if this would work, but I guess it is worth trying.

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Re: Agreed..

JGallemore wrote:

Many of the Pentium 1 chips up to 133MHz could be put in place of the 486s. It was at the time an economical replacement during the 200MHz days. Since the board was proprietary, I was unsure if this would work, but I guess it is worth trying.

Uhm...

"Pentium 1" != "586"

"586" was a name Cyrix and AMD sold various high-speed 80486 clones under. You're going to have a difficult time sticking a Pentium-socket CPU into a 486 DOS card.

--Peace

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CPUs can be swapped out -- BU

CPUs can be swapped out -- BUT -- the dos card uses 5V CPUs, so you have to be careful *what* you plug in there. Most "newer" 586 processors are actually of the 3.3V kind. So you'd need to plug in a voltage converter onto the x86 socket and in that the new CPU. Those converter sockets were actually quite common part of 486 upgrade kits, so they *shouldn't* be that hard to find (but then, that was also ten years ago). the 486 socket uses less pins than the 586 (hence, as someone mentioned earlier) so the form factor of the CPU is important, too. Best bet for compatible 586 processors is still either Cyrix or AMD (more common I guess). Glad this thread came to life after all... hehe

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*Disclaimer - Replacing a 486

*Disclaimer - Replacing a 486 chip with a 586 chip may result in damage to the DOS board, the motherboard, both, any devices connected to it, any device in the near vicinity or on it's network, devices attached via the internet...well, you get the picture. I don't accept any responsibility if you damage your component.
----------------------
Yes, the Pentium I is a 586 and was socket compatible with the 486DXes. I personally upgraded many of our work's motherboards from the 486/33 and /66 to Pentium 90s and 100s. The simple fact was the Pentium name was a simple marketing tool for a backwards compatible chip (Penta - 5). The earliest chips are socket compatible.

There were some modification of the instruction set (more like optimizations rather than changes to the instruction), but it maintained its backward compatibility with the various earlier x86 chips.
You definitely have to ensure you are getting the 5v chip as the 3.3 will absolutely not work, not to mention possibly ruining the board.

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Re: *Disclaimer - Replacing a 486

JGallemore wrote:

Yes, the Pentium I is a 586 and was socket compatible with the 486DXes. I personally upgraded many of our work's motherboards from the 486/33 and /66 to Pentium 90s and 100s. The simple fact was the Pentium name was a simple marketing tool for a backwards compatible chip (Penta - 5). The earliest chips are socket compatible.

Pardon me, but again... no.

The only "486 motherboard compatable" Intel Pentium was the 5 volt "P24T Pentium Overdrive", which was physically different from the standard issue 5-volt (And now very rare) 60/66Mhz Pentium. Later "Overdrive" chips from Intel for 486es were based on the 486DX4.

http://support.intel.com/support/processors/overdrive/pentium/

Anyway, trust me: If you rip a Pentium CPU out of a machine that *came* as a Pentium machine, you'll find that among other things it has almost twice as many pins as the socket on a 486 board will accommodate. I can point out copious documentation to support my position, if that would avoid futher debate. Here's a start:

http://users.erols.com/chare/cpu_sock.htm

--Peace

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I apologize

To everyone on this board. I was incorrect in stating the Pentium was slot compatible. I apparently have forgotten much in the intervening years.

BeniD82 - Eudimorphodon is correct. Please accept my apologies for giving you misleading information.

Jack Gallemore

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No need to apology, heh!

No need to apology, heh!