apple IIe zip chips?

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littlejohn's picture
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Does anybody know where I can find a "zip chip" for the apple IIe? I have done a search online and can find lots of information on it but none for sale. Does anyone have one they will part with? I realize it might be like asking for your first born, but it is worth a try.

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You would have better luck ge

You would have better luck getting a Transwarp... Zip chips are really rare...

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ZipChips . . .

ZipChip's are great replacements for the 65c02 in a //e because they have a built in feature that let's you reboot at the normal 1.2 Mhz, for game playing, instead of the 4 or 8 Mhz speed increase. However, if you are willing to sacrifice that feature, there is a company that makes and sells a 14 Mhz chip that is compatible with the 65c02. I'll post their URL here when/if I find it again. BTW the chip in question comes in three different pin configurations including the DIP, which is standard in the Apple //'s.

Also, ZipChip's do occasionally show up on Ebay.

Mutant_Pie

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Installing a 14 mhz 65C02 won

Installing a 14 mhz 65C02 won't result in a speed increase. The speed is controlled by the motherboard. The zipchip got around that by having it's own oscillator, cache and ROM amongst other components built into the chip.

When Apple designed the IIc+ they wanted to use a zipchip but for various reasons prferred not to buy them from zip. So the liscenced them and all the zip compponents are separately mounted on the IIc motherboard. In this case you can increase the IIc+ speed by changing an oscillator.

Wayne

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Has anybody actually done tha

Has anybody actually done that? I have a IIc+ I'd be willing to try it on...

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I sped up my IIc+ a few years

I sped up my IIc+ a few years back. I posted about it on comp.sys.apple2 so you could likely find the postings with google. Afterwards a few others did the same. I toped out at 10mhz while most didn't get that fast. Possibly by using a faster processor you might get faster yet. I tried using faster cache but that didn't help.

Theres three oscillators on the IIc+ motherboard. Speed is set by the 16mhz one which is 4 times the IIc+ speed. So a 40mhz oscillator gave me 10mhz. Since I didn't know where I'd top out when I removed the 16mhz oscillator I installed a socket.

Wayne

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Awesome!

Wayne,

Thanks for sharing these details. I think I'm going to have to try this type of speed increase out.

BTW. How would one check the actual output speed of the computer? Do a benchmark test, like a processing operation that takes, say about a minute at 1Mhz, time it, then try it at the higher speeds while timing it? (In your case, the same operation should take about 1/10th the time or six seconds.)

Also, assuming that you tried this, what happened on your //c+ after the upgrade you did, when you tried the reset keystroke feature (open Apple-Control-Reset-Esc)to set the machine to "normal" speed (1Mhz)?

Thanks for any reply,
Mutant_Pie

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I'm sure I used a utility to

I'm sure I used a utility to get the speed but I don't recall which one. Having it perform a processor intensive task would work too. The IIc+ like the Zipgs and TranswarpGS ran at 1/4 the oscillator speed so I can't see you running at something else.

That oscillator only controls the high speed. Normal speed was still 1mhz.

That experiment went well. The other one I tried didn't fare well at all. I tried replacing the IWM chup with the SWIM from a SE FDHD. The only thing you need to know about that is that it's a very bad idea.

Wayne

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Oscillator Chip Number

Could you please furnish the oscillator chip number
and possibly the replacement/faster oscillator chip
number as well? Are these available through Radio
Shack? They do have quite a lot of replacement IC's.

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Radio Shack is unlikely to ca

Radio Shack is unlikely to carry any repacement. If you don't have a larger electronics store locally you might have to order them from some place like Jameco.
The part you need is a half size TTL Oscillator. Full size ones are readily available but most places don't carry the half size ones.
The IIc+ runs at one quarter the oscillator speed so if you can find a local source try a 32 and 40mhz oscillator.
If you have to order them from someplace like Jameco, then I'd likely order 24,28, 32,36, 40 and maybe 44mhz oscillators. In case it helps a couple of Jameco parts numbers for suitable replacements are 325681 and 325702. Those are the correct package but what speed your particular IIc+ will run at is something you'll have to find out. You'll also want a good socket, preferrably a machine pin one like the Jameco 291282

I've been fortunate having a couple of larger electonic parts store locally and haven't had to order parts. The only reason I mentioned Jameco is because theye're well known and have a good selection available online.

Wayne

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14 mhz 65c02, here it is. . .

Here's the link for the 14 Mhz 65c02 chips;

westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/w65c02s.cfm

It should be noted that this chip comes in three package formats. DIP is the one to use in a //c+. If I understand Waynes advice, if you want to squeeze 14 mhz out of the system, you would need to locate the (half size) 16mhz oscillator, replace it with a socket, and plug in a 56mhz one.

Does that read as correct Wayne? Also, any hints as to the location on the //c+ main board of the timing oscillator? (I know, I'm taking all of the challenge out of it). :Smile

BTW, would there be a way of replicating the timing support hardware of the //c+ on a //e board, so we could do this same upgrade with the more modern IC's, as opposed to being forced to find the ZipChips?

Mutant_Pie

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Woogle, I was just checking a

Woogle, I was just checking and I made an error. The IIc+ uses full sized TTL oscillators. I guess I was thinking about the TransWarpGS. Sorry about that. You should be able to find some locally, thouigh likely not at Radio Shack. couple of sample Jameco numbers are 354861 and 27941. The correct socket would be 133006

Wayne

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You could change the processo

You could change the processor but that may not be necessary as the 65C02 can usually be overclocked by a large amount. A 14mhz 65C02 may or may not do better. From playing with the ZipGS and TransWarpGS I found that there's often other factors than just processor speed. For example the ZipGS usually crapped out at around 12mhz unless you replaced one IC.

The 16mhz oscillator is on the left front of the motherboard.

The TransWarp II was basically a Zipchip on a card. I've never looked closely at one so I don't know how hard it'd be to duplicate. If it's possible to duplicate, then it'd likely be improveable

Wayne

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over clocking=heat?

Wouldn't overclocking the CPU generate unnecessary heat, and draw extra power?

Yeah, I was wondering when other bottlenecks were going to be encountered in this equation. Such as RAM speed, etc. . . . If I do this upgrade, I will do a benchmark time test of some type, and report the results here.

I've requested a price quote on the 14mhz CPU. I'll share what I find out. Any other parties interested on going in with me on a bulk order?

Mutant_Pie

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I would like to order on for

I would like to order on for my //c+

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As you kick up the speed ther

As you kick up the speed there's going to be more heat, Thinking about it, I'm wondering if this is actually overclocking or that the processor was only tested at a low speed.

One possible bottleneck is the two cache chips. The stock ones in mine were only 100ns. Making it a bit harder is the fact that they're the wide SRAM which isn't available in very fast speeds. When speeding up a ZipGS I did a lot of searching for faster SRAM and wasn't able to find new wide SRAM faster than 70ns. You can get adapters that let you use narrow SRAM in the wide sockets but I'm wondering if there might be a hight problem with them.

RAM speed shouldn't be a problem since with a caching acellerator it should be accessing the RAM at 1mhz.

Wayne

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The chips, the chips, oh Danny-Boy!

O.k. technerd, and other interested parties,

The 14mhz 65c02's are $5.07 per unit, for fewer than 100 units. The price drops to $4.06 for 100-199 units, and about $0.50 off more at each 100 unit increment down to $2.50.

Unless I get a lot of requests, I'll probably order 10 of these, one is reserved for technerd.

Mutant_Pie