Daystar adapter for SE/30 PDS

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pmjett's picture
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Been surfing about working up the motivation to "fix" some more of my computers. I've been wanting to put an accelerator in my SE/30 for about 7 years, and haven't found the requisite adapter to make my Daystar 40MHz PowerCache work. As I understand it, the Daystar accelerators are all designed with the IIci in mind. I'm not having any luck here, and I'd really like to bring the old girl back online with some faster parts.

I finally found the pin outs for the two different PDS's (the 030 variety in the SE/30 and the one in the IIci) that need to be brought together- along with a comment that the two are physically different, electrically the same, and involve two different clock speeds. My question is to those of you lucky SE/30 owners with Daystar accelerators- what the heck does the adapter look like? Is it a passive device that just makes a wiring bridge with a few other parts thrown in? Or, as I'm afraid, does it have a bunch of other stuff that is virtually impossible for me to hack together. I'd like to have a go at making the adapter- heck, there would be a market for the things.

Which, I guess brings me to a more pragmatic question- is anyone willing to part with theirs? Smile

Mike

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Brewing your own

PDS adapters were made by many of the Mac accessory manufacturers including MicroMac, SuperMac, Sonnet and Daystar. They are all simple devices and don't have any logic on them. If you were to make your own, create one that converts the single SE/30 PDS slot to a IIci cache slot and at least one SE/30 PDS slot. Jeff Walther who occasionally posts here and on the Low End Mac lists has looked at the PDS adapters in more detail.

Phil

pmjett's picture
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Whew!

Charlieman
Thanks for some reassurance! I have a dim recollection of seeing a picture of a suitable adapter- and it looked more like an adapter to place the accelerator board physically in the right place (given the tight quarters in a compact mac).

I would need to cobble one together that could take the Daystar Power Cache and an Asante NIC. Would you think that it would be as "simple" as bringing the appropriate lines from the 030 PDS over to the layout of the IIci cache socket?

I did manage to google up Jeff, and found a few references to PDS items, and his email address.

thanks,
Mike

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No, it's not as simple as tha

No, it's not as simple as that.

I have a Daystar Turbo040 40Mhz in my SE/30 (and let me tell you it's wonderful to use every day!). The DayStar card is attached to my SE/30 motherboard with a DayStar IIsi adaptor (which is physically different but electrically the same as a SE/30 adaptor).

The pinout of the IIci cache slot is NOT just a rearrangement of the 68030 PDS pinout. Some of the signal lines are different, but, since the IIci cache slot is a subset of the 030 PDS, an adaptor can be made. On the other hand, an adaptor to run an 030 PDS card in a IIci cache slot could probably NOT be made, because the IIci cache slot doesn't have the full capabilities.

The SE/30 or IIsi adaptor for DayStar cards just runs most of the pins from one connector to another, but it also includes a small FPGA, a Programmable Gate Array.

This chip is a logic device that comes as a blank slate, and can be programmed to do any of a large number of things using a PC peripheral and some software. For instance, this device could probably be programmed into a 20-way AND chip.

We don't know what the code to produce this particular chip is, and so we can't clone the DayStar adaptor.

I'm considering building a machine which will take a programmable gate array and reverse-engineer it by brute force to determine what it's programming is. Unfortunately, this will only work for passive logic; anything with a data bus or command protocol of any sort won't work so well.

Until someone does this, you've just got to find a DayStar adaptor. I waited five years, but I'm glad I did.

Edit: a Japanese company called Stratos makes a DayStar adaptor for the SE/30 called TwinSpark. Last I checked they went for about $125 US and would cost that much to ship here.

dankephoto's picture
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Q: has anyone tried a Turbo 601 in an SE/30?

Always wondered. (figured I'd ask since this thread got me thinking about it)

dan k

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pmjett's picture
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Well, I expected that answer

TylerS,
Thanks for the reality check! I did indeed reach (and got a very thoughtful letter from) the gentleman that Charlieman suggested I try- thankfully the googling process turned up the man's email. Anyway, he bears out what you say exactly, though with slightly more confidance in reverse engineering the PAL/PGAL/etc. Obviously, I've STILL got to get my hands on one just to reverse engineer it.

I also looked up the Stratos folks. They do indeed sell a SE/30 adapter with pass through. They are exceptionally proud of it, and ask a pretty steep price. If my conversion is correct, their 19,800 yen asking price is about US$180 !! And that's without the shipping. I'd have to hock my ZipGS and IIe Transwarp accelerators just to pay for that sucker.

Have you ever seen mention of what PALs are used for the adapter? Perhaps a peek at the spec sheets would be enough to scare me off or spur me on.

Looks like I need to go thrift store shopping with the forum poster who scored the box and the accelerator and the adapter for $25.

Mike

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Not all the same...

I have two adapters in front of me.

MicroMac IIsi PDS with accelerator connector and PDS accessory connector. P/N 632-10036-003A. This has a PAL labelled PALCE16V8H-10 PC/4 412FMCV K

Sonnet Presto-040 Dual-Slot Adapter (ie IIsi PDS with accelerator connector and PDS accessory connector). P/N CIA-SI. This has no logic chip.

Photos in my personal image gallery.

Phil

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>Sonnet Presto-040 Dual-Slot

>Sonnet Presto-040 Dual-Slot Adapter (ie IIsi PDS with accelerator >connector and PDS accessory connector). P/N CIA-SI. This has no >logic chip.

I believe that what this means is that the Sonnet Presto040 cards have the necessary logic on themselves to work in the SE/30//IIsi. That would be a smart move on Sonnet's part to reduce warranty returns due to putting the card in the wrong slot. Analysis of the circuitry of the Sonnet adaptor would tell us if it would plug right in or if the pins have to be rearranged. Anybody want to try it out?

It's pretty well-known that putting a DayStar (or MicroMac) card into the SE/30 without an adaptor is a no-no, but nobody's ever tested the Sonnet cards, that I know of.

Re: Turbo601

I would *love* to try out the Turbo601 in my SE/30. I'm willing to bet it would work, but it might require the IIsi ROM SIMM hack (32-bit dirty is a problem for lots of cards that weren't designed to work in the SE/30, such as the SuperMac Spectrum 8/24 PDQ SI).

dankephoto's picture
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Re: Turbo601

"TylerS" wrote:

I would *love* to try out the Turbo601 in my SE/30. I'm willing to bet it would work, but it might require the IIsi ROM SIMM hack (32-bit dirty is a problem for lots of cards that weren't designed to work in the SE/30, such as the SuperMac Spectrum 8/24 PDQ SI).

Sigh, I guess I'll have to give it try then. I've got a SuperMac Dual PDS Adapter (IIsi), a IIfx ROM and a T601 . . .errr, don't anyone hold their breath though, I'm already overloaded with stuff I actually need to do.

BTW, the SuperMac adapter has no logic, but it does have an FPU socket (empty on mine.)

OK, here's another silly question - has anyone ever got a nubus card working in an SE/30 using the IIsi nubus adapter? Not like that's really a practical proposition, but . . . Laughing out loud

dan k

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I've got one of those SuperMa

I've got one of those SuperMac Dual PDS Adaptors, and it's not what you need to put the T601 in your SE/30. Sad I'd not recommend it, 'cuz "they say" that it might kill your SE/30 or your T601.

The DayStar IIsi adaptor isn't the same as the SuperMac Dual PDS adaptor.

You'll need a DayStar adaptor to try out the T601.

As soon as I can get a IIsi NuBus adaptor cheap, I'm planning on trying it. I would love to get a SiliconExpress IV running in the SE/30. Disk I/O is the biggest bottleneck in the machine, once it's upgraded to a 68040.

dankephoto's picture
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Doh!

"TylerS" wrote:

I've got one of those SuperMac Dual PDS Adaptors, and it's not what you need to put the T601 in your SE/30. Sad I'd not recommend it, 'cuz "they say" that it might kill your SE/30 or your T601.

Damn, I knew that! It's just been so long since I've futzed with an SE/30 I'd forgotten.

Well . . . OK, then . . . ahh, never mind.

Edit: Here's a rarish 100MHz T601 sold by eBay vendor artmix who also sells the remade dual adapter for SE/30.

Quote:

SE/30 user, please consider my unique Product, "Storatos TS adapter". It ia enable to adapt both DayStar Turbo040 or PowerCache and EtherNet Card or Vidoe Card for SE/30 PDS!!

No mention of using a T601 . . . though we don't know if they tried it with a 32-bit clean ROM installed.

dan k

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The adaptor you need is discu

The adaptor you need is discussed in this thread:

http://www.applefritter.com/node/10092

The Supermac Dual PDS is also an interesting adaptor, but you definitely genuinely CANNOT use it with a PowerCache, Apple Cache Card, or any other card designed for the IIci slot.