LW 16/600 PS Diagnostic

27 replies [Last post]
catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098

First of all... the attachment is not a text file.
If you decide to try to help here... after downloading the attachment, change the .txt to a .zip

then unzip, in the folder are 2 small QT files. Not exciting cinema here, just what the lights do on a normal boot ,
the Power-On Self Test (POST) and booting in
Printer Diagnostic mode (EPOST)

Its an Apple LaserWriter 16/600, 8MB or 16MB RAM (behaves the same with different RAM)

Its very clean.

I was able to look at it from the LaserWriter Priter Utility from a Quadra 650 in Sys 8.1, but I could do little more than change its name and see how many prints its made (better than 30,000).

I tried to use the Apple Printer Utility from a B&W in Sys 9.1, but for some odd reason, I can't get it to see the printer.

The Service Source pdf manual is downloadable from here
see pgs 61-65 for descriptions of what the lights should be doing during POST and EPOST

and another manual is available, too (pdf download warning, right click and "Save Linked File" unless you like pdf's in your browser)
LaserWriter_16_600_PSPrintr.pdf
pg 25 tells there what the lights do during normal operation

(page numbers are the pdf pg#'s not the numbers on the page)

Sort of a puzzle... From what I can tell:
Says the paper is out... but there's paper. That particular sensor seems uncompromised. OR It says its waiting for a manual feed... but when that's available it does nothing but continue to blink. OR says there's a paper jam, but there's not. OR it says maybe there is a problem with the RAM, but I've tried 6 different sticks, and it does the same thing with all of them. Everything I've just listed is my amateur attempt to decifer what the 2 movies I've attached are showing... so there is no more information than that.

If anyone can help me figure out what the problem is, I'd be most appreciative.

AttachmentSize
2diagnose.txt746.32 KB

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Dr. Webster's picture
Online
Joined: Dec 19 2003
Posts: 1687
"Why does it say paper ja

"Why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam?!"

__________________

Applefritter Admin

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
LMAO

I'm having not quite similar feelings.

I've never owned a laser printer before. There is something about laser prints... so crisp and... those toner cartridges seem to last forever...

I have a relatively new ink jet, better than twice the dpi of this LW, but I know the prints are going to be crisper and more consistant on a laser printer... and nowadays, the damn ink for the ink jet costs more than the friggin' printer... and I get maybe 50 prints... and half of them are streaked with crap, I spend most of the ink washing out the stupid ink nozzles...

anyway, toner cartradges are usually expensive, too... but for these you can find them now for less than $30 (actually, closer to $20).

If I could get this thing working, it'd be pretty sweet. I doubt I'd ever feel about this one like Samir and especially Michael Bolton felt about that one... (there have been others in offices that I have had "personality conflicts" with, and wanted to do what they got to do)

so... thanks Doc, for the laughs... good medicine

coius's picture
Offline
Joined: Aug 25 2004
Posts: 1975
knowing from having a Personal LW NT 2

is the ROM removable? It sounds like the Rom is starting to flake out. Mine had this problem, and it was printing all black pages. once I replaced the Rom, it worked great, at least, until I spilled pop into it...
FYI: The LW Was off, but once I plugged it in, I heard a fizzle (I tried to clean it out before that) and it let off some smoke. That was the end of that Tongue ...

__________________

See my PB540c 33Mhz serve a website! http://yui-ikari.coius.info/

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
Soldered ROM

it has 2 ROM slots, but they are empty...
the ROMs it uses are between those, and soldered on there... I've never heard of ROMs flaking out... weird.

But I was hoping someone could decifer the error code (as I tried to, but I know that can't be right).

If it actually talks to a computer, networks... how can the ROMs be messed up?

coius's picture
Offline
Joined: Aug 25 2004
Posts: 1975
well..

than it beats me... *Shrugs shoulders* I think you have us all stumped. If you can get a manual, Or I can look in my private stash, you might just want to disassemble it and clean all the sensors. Maybe it is getting too many mixed signals. has this ever been dropped, or abused in any other way?

__________________

See my PB540c 33Mhz serve a website! http://yui-ikari.coius.info/

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
disassembly

I think you are probably correct... I bet its a sensor...

Though I still wish someone would interpret the error messages from the blinking lights with some authority... if there is one thing that fritter is missing, its a printer guru.

Anyway, the Service Souce for this, unlike others, tells precious little about dissassembly and replacement. There is an exploded view... but doesn't tell you how to do it. What it does tell you is what to do before hand... like "remove the side panel," etc., and although that is a pretty simple task, it doesn't say how to do it at any level of disassembly.

If there's another guide out there... lemmie know.

Oh, and I'll send you another PM later.

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
disassembly

Get the SS manual for the very similar LWPro 600/630, that manual has a complete takeapart section.

dan k

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
Sweet!

Schön danke!

(edit)
I spoke too soon... well, I mean, thanks anyway, but it has the exact same "Take Apart" section, as far as I can tell... Other Service Source manuals have been more detailed, telling you for trouble shooting, etc., exactly what to replace, and exactly how to do it... these ones just sort of give me a rough idea of what needs to be removed first (and its incomplete).

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
we've got different manuals then

Both manuals I have include extensive takeapart and troubleshooting instructions. If they're incomplete I can't see where.

dan k

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
really?

Extensive as in telling you exactly where the screws are? Extensive as in if you want to replace said sensor x, step by step instructions telling exactly how (not just what) to remove everything you need to remove in order to GET to removing sensor x, as well as sensor x? I bet we have the same, just different standards for ease of use (I'm a bit stupider than you).

To be fair, the manual does include links to QT "take a look" movies, but the movies are no where to be found... Sad

Jon's picture
Jon
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 2804
I've got a 16/600 witha pers

I've got a 16/600 witha persistant "Paper Out Error" as well. I thought it might be a sensor problem but I didn't get it taken very far apart before I thought it was a whole lot more complex than any computer I've benn inside. Does anyone know if they are optical sensors? If so these may have the same trouble with dust as the old 400k floppies. Dust in the sensor causing havok.

__________________

I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
finally

at least I know it must be a common problem...

Are we sure that's really what the error is? According to one manual, the flashing paper out on the normal startup means 1 of 2 things, either the paper is out... or its "needs servicing."

Are you able to do an EPOST test?
its relatively easy to do... If you don't have a serial loopback connector (but who does?) you use a serial cable...

the serial cable has pins that look sort of like this:

__6__7__8
_3__4___5
____1__2

just need to bridge pins 1 & 2 (I did it with a stripped twisty tie... Tongue )

Turn that little switch at the top of the ports to the up position, plug in the serial cable, make sure pins 1 & 2 are bridged, and switch the printer on...

Here are the codes:
I/O Controller Board___________________off off off on

ROM SIMM A________________________off off on off

RAM Size___________________________off off on on (I think this is mine's error)

RAM SIMM (Low)______________________off on off off

RAM SIMM (High)_____________________off on off on

Engine Controller (Interface or NVRAM)_____off on on off

Fuser Assembly ______________________off on on on

Laser/Scanner Assembly________________on off off off

Misc. Engine (Operator or Unknown Error)___on off off on

Engine Fan (1 or More)_________________on off on off

Main Motor__________________________on off on on

SCSI Hard Drive (Present but Failing)_______on on off off

From the Service Source:

Quote:

If EPOST detects an error, the LEDs will cycle through the
following sequence until you turn off the printer. The QuickTime
movie below animates this cycle.
• All LEDs on for one second
• All LEDs off for one second
• Failure error code for two seconds
• All LEDs off for one second

although mine doesn't cycle like that... actually behaves quite differently (see attachment in the original post above)

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
an example . . .

eg: starting at page 253 of the PDF . . .

Quote:
Pickup Sensor Board
Before you begin, remove the following:
• Rear panel
• Top cover
• Front panel
• Right corner panel
• Multipurpose tray assy
• Multipurpose closure panel
• Paper pickup block
• Pickup controller board
Note: Control of the following parts either routes through or is located on the pickup sensor board:
– Multipurpose feed sensor
– Cassette feed sensor
– Pickup motor and drive gears
– Pickup solenoids
1 Turn over the pickup block so that it is resting on the 45° face of its end frames.
2 Unhook the three tabs and snap off the sensor board cover.
3 Disconnect the three cables at the gear end of the board.
4 Note: In the following instruction, “left

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
that's what I have

Holy Schnikies!

I do have all that... it is very detailed... its the Preview Drawer that had me cornfused...

I was only looking at the first page in every sub-section (I'm used to seeing all the pages over there...).

Thanks for sticking with me!

Now... about this repeating error... what's it all mean? First of all... I doubt its the sensor that detects whether there is paper, but only because that doesn't seem to be the error I get in EPOST (please see the attachment above).
However,
If we have 3 machines all doing the same thing... there's definately a diagnosis out there. And I'll bet there is a way to fix it (or at least a note somewhere saying "this is common in these Apple printers... it means it is past the point of no return, ye must abandon all hope" and we can put an end to this thread).

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
Solved

I figured out what was wrong....

its the pickup controller board...

tested, giving 4V instead of 5V in 2 places (oh so close), and the sensor holder assembly works fine

$235.38 and on backorder

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
Holy crap! Nertz! EDIT: or maybe not . . .

As far as I can tell this ^$^#@%&$@ printer is the only model any maker ever made using the Canon ZX engine. Geez Louise! My good old LWPro 630 has the widely used EX engine, parts are available everywhere because of all the HP models (LaserJets 4, 4M, 4+, 4M+) using that same engine.

Damn, I had hoped to tell of all the places you could find that part cheap, but it looks like it ain't so. Sad

Well, ask around, here, perhaps on the lowendmac swap list, craigs list, etc. You might get lucky, someone having the part laying about.

Heh heh, sun remarketing hasn't had real stock in years. Not like yer gonna drop a lump of dough like that on this printer anyhow though.

My other thought is that the ZX is so (?) similar to the EX that some EX parts may work in the 16/600. But that remains to be seen. Hmmm, I wonder . . . do I have a spare 630 around I could strip for possible spare parts to test with my defunkt 16/600 . . . ?

Edit: OK, I thought to look at the exploded views in the SS manuals, and guess what? The entire PU block is identical between 600/630 and 16/600. If that's the case look here and see if you can recognize the part, is it #21 perhaps? If so, $19 for a refurbed part isn't too bad. Well, if they had it in stock that is.

dan k

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
630 & 600

It was my suspicion that the parts were interchangable.

I was actually looking for an whole printer to salavge...

But then... I can't believe I'm going to admit this...

the 16/600 is a sweet printer... but its big, heavy, takes up a lot of room.

I always loved the low profile and smaller footprint of the Personal 300, 320 LaserWriters, but they have QuickDraw and serial connections. I thought maybe I could get one going with OS X being that I got a StyleWriter II going... and that's QuickDraw and serial... but then I noticed something I've never noticed... The LaserWriter 4/600 looks very similar to those, and its a PostScript Level 2 printer with 600 dpi... these things are cheap, toner cartradges easy to come by, and they have three fourth's the expected life of the 16/600.

Anyway, there's tricks to get it to work with an ethernet network, but I just realized, an
SE/30 print server would be fine... espescially if I could get it to run Sys 8.1 with 128MB, so unless that is the part for $19, I know what I'm going to do.

Thanks for finding that, btw... nice digging... I really had given up finding an actual part, and was looking for a whole printer to break

edit
oh, Brother, rethinking my whole strategy...

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
re: oh, Brother, rethinking my whole strategy...

No ethernet or Postscript, not at all the same class of printer.

Instead of buying a new printer, repair the older printer and keep a large pile of metal and plastic out of the waste stream. You'll spend less money and end up with a superior printer that will last (nearly) forever. Unlike the (almost certainly) flimsy-and-delicate-cheapo-unrepairable-dispose-of-if-there's-a-problem new model.

dan k

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
Agreed

the 16/600 is a superior printer in that it will last longer, probably require less maintenance, has networkability (well, you can hook the Brother to an Airport Extreme and its networked, also there is a networking version of the printer for a little more, with juiced specs.)

But some of the specs are hard to ignore:

____________________16/600PS__________HL2040
Print Speed___________17.1ppm____________20ppm
MaxResolution__________600dpi_____________2400dpi
ProcSpeed____________25MHz_____________96MHz
Interface__________10BaseT_____________USB 2.0
PostScript Lvl__________2__________________3
Weight____________42 lbs._______________14 lbs.
Size________24.5"Wx50.4"Dx19.75"H____14.6"Wx14.2"Dx6.5"H

Size and Weight are what get me here on the one side... and on the other is drum life (the Brother specs the drum to last for a measly 12,000 prints

dankephoto's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1900
size?

Quote:

Size________24.5"Wx50.4"Dx19.75"H

huh? I'm measuring my externally identical LWP630 and it comes up at ~ 17" x 17" x 12".

As for the other specs, the CPU speed is not really all that important, the engine output speed is near enough to make no practical diff, and the there's little chance you'd be able to tell the diff between rez 600x600 and 600x2400. The only real diff is the weight, and for sure the Apple printer is the heavyweight.

Well, the choice depends on how it's gonna be used. For someone in a small apartment who needs only an occasional B+W letter or graphic, the Brother is a better choice.

dan k

__________________

|| web page gone - curse you Comcast! | Applish goodies servers offline, sorry! |
» email macdan at comcast.net

Jon's picture
Jon
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 2804
www.surplusexchange.org had s

surplusexchange.org had several for sale for $25 each last time I was in there, along with stacks of 266G3DTs and several G3 AIO Molars. I need to go back in sometime soon.

__________________

I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
size

I didn't measure it... those are the specs from the service source...

I have good news, though.

I just saved a bunch of money on my care insur...

OK, couldn't resist. Anyway, I've come across a LaserWriter Pro (no number next to it on the donor, but its a 300), so I'm going to dig out the PCB and and try it. If it works, this confirms my diagnosis.

Interestingly, the difference in the design of the printers are a little different. The LW Pro has a shield over the mobo. I don't have to mess with it to get to the PC Board, but I thought I'd mention it...

btw During the troubleshooting process on the 16/600, the manual had me check the DC board first, and its behind the shield behind the mobo. 5 screws for mobo, no prob. (there's holes for more than 5 screws... so it took me a few mins to figure out where the screws went when I got to that) But the shield has 17 (!) phillips head screws. And they are of the finest most maliable metal I have ever encountered in an Apple product. First of all, they were all way too tight. And about 4 of them were so friggen' tight, they basically committed suicide against the tip of the driver... I had to use the needle nose to get them off (I still can't believe it worked). Well, today I was trying to remove the PC Board from the LW Pro, and I stripped one of the screws securing the lateral brace (right side, holding the multipurpose tray)... and I didn't have any needle nose with me... so I'll be sure to bring them tomorrow.

Offline
Joined: Nov 4 2005
Posts: 1
Apple Laser 16/600 PS

Had the same problem. Turned out the spring underneath the metal part in the paper tray wasn't in place. Put it back & now it works fine!

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
well... dunno what's wrong now...

After swapping paper controller boards with the LaserWriter Pro, I fired up the LaserWriter Pro... and IT still works... so the flakey pcb can still drive that thing... hmmm.

Put the LW Pro's pcb in the 16/600... and... its not doing the same thing.
It goes through its POST (Power-On Self Test) with no errors like a champ, everything checks out... all the way up to where the ready light blinks once, like it should. But then... the lights just stay off. (When I pull the paper tray out, the paper-out light comes on.) LaserWriter Utility still sees it, and it gives me more options than it did with the old pcb... but I can't get it to print anything. I'm wondering now if the PostScript interpreter is messed up somehow. Fact is... I've never even seen a working LW 16/600, so I don't know how long its supposed to take to warm up... if you have to load fonts and drivers and such into it... I don't know anything about it. On the 8.1 mac I've been testing it with, Chooser sees it under LaserWriter 8, and at the moment, I'm trying an auto-setup.

I'm wondering if the problem is that this machine was used on a network by PC's. It has an IP address... and I'm not exactly sure how to change it. I have an idea... I know I can telnet into it, and change it that way... but my network is on a totally different IP range... so its no wonder my router is not seeing it quite right:

arp -a

? (10.0.1.255) at ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff on en1 [ethernet]

OK... so I'm left with the assumption that the printer probably works (the EPOST also tells me nothing) ... but I don't know how to set it up... so I'm just guessing through it. ;P

Jon's picture
Jon
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 2804
I just tested my 16/600. The

I just tested my 16/600. The epost goes: Power-On, all LEDs on, then left goes out, then second goes out, right two stay on. I also did the "2 blinking lights test" on fixyourownprinter.com and got infinity on the right two pins. Looks liek arepiar kit is in need. It'll cost mroe than I paid for the printer, but my wife loved it when it worked. Even a new super cheap laser is $100...

__________________

I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls

catmistake's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 1098
Looks like I had the same prob

FYI I did replace pickup controller board with a known good one... and it gives some different light sequence, but still doesn't work... shame on me, I got frustrated and set it aside.

Jon's picture
Jon
Offline
Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 2804
From the info on fixyourownp

From the info on fixyourownprinter.com it should be the 2 blinking lights repair, which fixes the fusing lamp. Apparently Moe who runs FYOP is a pretty good troubleshooter and is very helpful.

__________________

I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls