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Topic: Using an A2 for the Internet? (Read 1441 times) |
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woogie
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Cats Rule!!
Posts: 341
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 17th, 2004, 8:44am » |
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I just wanted to be able to get on the 'Net period.
I don't care about graphics/pics either in this case.
It was sort of an 'accomplishment' thing to prove
that Apple II's could still do up-to-date tasks. An
experiment, if you will. I'm not up on all of the new
programing either. I'm more of a 'hardware' person.
Keep the ideas coming. I still check this thread and
maybe the original poster does also. I believe he has
given up on his effort due to the type of computer
he has (Apple //c).
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| « Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2004, 8:51am by woogie » |
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beerslayer
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Making the world a little bit weirder...
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 17th, 2004, 10:53pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2004, 8:44am, woogie wrote:| Keep the ideas coming. I still check this thread |
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OK, then, here's the possibility as I see it:
The Apple //ec (as I'll call the two of them collectively for simplicity, since software-wise they are very similar) is a wonderful machine in many respects, but graphical capability is not one of them. If we can put aside any thought of significant graphical surfing, we can figure out what the real application "needs" would be for someone trying to get onto the Internet in a text-only context:
1) Surfing (Ex: Lynx). Forget Flash/Java/Javascript - probably not doable.
2a) Text E-mail client (SMTP/POP3/IMAP access) (Ex: PINE)
2b) Binary E-mail capability (UUE, MIME, Base64 encodings)
3) Usenet/NNTP client (some sort of simple newsreader, preferably threaded) (Ex: tin)
4) FTP client (file up/download) (Ex: many)
5) Telnet client (terminal access) (Ex: many)
6) IRC client (chat - gotta have SOME fun...  ) (Ex:  )
7) (probably a few other things I haven't thought of)
All of these things seem quite doable on a //ec, since text-only clients for all of these already exist for "modern" platforms. With these, an Internet user on a //ec can waste lots of time unproductively, just like the rest of us...
Of course, all of this is built on a supposition, which is that someone out there can solve the connectivity issue. The cornerstone of the Internet is TCP/IP, which AFAIK does not exist for the //ec, DHCP capability, and the ability to connect using either PPP (preferred) or SLIP (obsolete). The last may already exist - I seem to remember a commercial program offering this - but don't quote me.
For what it's worth, I doubt it would be worth the effort to try to make any of this work on a ][+ or earlier... the 40-column display and lack of memory (Ramworks notwithstanding) would make this a formidable challenge, although if they can do it on a C64, who knows?
At any rate, if there are any better programmers out there than I am, I'd love to see how much of this could actually be done!
-- Jeff
-- aka The Eternal Newbie 
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| « Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2004, 11:03pm by beerslayer » |
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Eudimorphodon
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 7:18am » |
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The simplest solution that springs to mind to me is:
1: Get an ancient 386 PC or 32 bit Macintosh. (Doesn't matter which. Flip a coin between a generic 386/25 and a Mac LC III.) The only limitation is you need at least two serial ports, or a single serial port and an ethernet card. (The former for modem use, the latter if you have broadband.)
2: Install NetBSD on it.
3: Install Screen/Lynx/Pine/etc on the NetBSD machine.
4. Obtain a terminal emulator program for your A][, and wire it to a serial port on your UNIX box using a long null modem cable.
5. Edit /etc/ttys on the NetBSD box so it runs getty on the serial port. (You may also want to modify the kernel/boot parameters so it considers the serial port the primary console.)
6: Hide the NetBSD machine in a closet, after pasting a label on it that says "INTERNET SMARTMODEM ][e", or something similarly clever.
That would be the hardware solution to the problem. ;^>
--Peace
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woogie
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Cats Rule!!
Posts: 341
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 8:29am » |
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Eudi...
Actually the patch/breadboard/solution that you posted
is very similar to what I've been kicking around on the
drawing board. It isn't a "pure" Apple II connection, but
due to tech advancement and planned obsolescence, it
seems the only workable one. I'll contact the nephew
and have him revisit the thread (he's busy with school
right now). It looks like even a workable way to connect
his //c.
Thanks.
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Some people march to a different drummer... I have a 52-piece orchestra playing just for me!
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woogie
Member
Cats Rule!!
Posts: 341
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 8:32am » |
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Oh yeah. Why TWO serial ports? If we go with modems
(no broadband available) won't one serial port be OK?
The Mac would be closer in keeping with the "pure"
Apple connection.
Also does the Mac support a 36k modem? I know the
386/486 PC platform does. That would take care of the
'Net support/connectivity/data-transfer issue.
The problem, as I see it, with using PC vs MAc is that
for initial setup I will have to have extra hardware such
as emulators and disk drives to translate and set up the
software for the Apple computers. With the Mac all I have
to do is use the File Translator. Also with the Mac platform
I don't think I will need to use a translator program like
CrossWorks to link the machines. Just wire the two up
as a LAN?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2004, 8:38am by woogie » |
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Eudimorphodon
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Re: Using an A2 for the Internet?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 10:01am » |
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on Feb 18th, 2004, 8:32am, woogie wrote:Oh yeah. Why TWO serial ports? If we go with modems
(no broadband available) won't one serial port be OK? |
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I was assuming you'd need one serial port for the modem. ;^>
(Of course, that doesn't apply if you have a built-in modem on whatever you use.)
Of course, if you have more serial ports you can hook up more Apples ][s as terminals! Or maybe add some TRS-80s, Kaypro IIs, etc. ;^>
Anyway. Long, long ago, I used to play with using an XT-class dual-floppy laptop (Toshiba 1100+) as an internet terminal. That's not *quite* as wimpy as an Apple ][, of course, but it's getting into the ball park. Anyway. There's a fair amount of software out there for doing that sort of thing with XTs, (See http://www.nettamer.net for an example of an all-in-one browser/email/telnet client.) but in the end I decided that a long null modem cable connected to my Linux box was a much more effective solution.
Frankly, any Internet suite that'd fit into an A][ (not counting Apple IIgs, which does have several TCP/IP stacks and browsers and whatnots available) would be so limited as to be essentially useless for "real world" applications. Contiki is a cute technology demonstrator, don't get me wrong, but eventually a rational person has their limits. Admittedly you are "cheating" by using the Apple as a simple terminal and offloading the internet connectivity to another machine, but... being a terminal is something that's demonstrably well inside an Apple ]['s design limits. Handling TCP/IP and decoding hypertext really isn't.
Just pretend your UNIX box is your own private CompuServ. ;^>
--Peace
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