Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8

Grand wagoneers have NEVER had a chrysler engine. The used an AMC 360 (5.9L) which was designed and made by AMC from the 60's until 1991 when they stopped making the grand wag. Other varients of the engine included the 304, 390, and 401 cid engines.

Personally being a big jeep guy, I say its a disgrace, and should be burned. Jeeps arent ment to be riced out pavement pounders.

YOWZERS! You Yanks sure know how to make a butt-ugly car...

Frankly I've never seen such an ugly heap of junk before.

EDIT: Yes I have. Your new Pontiac GTO. When those are over here as Monaros they look **nice**. Once they get hit with the USA-branded ugly stick, they're shocking. Horrifically, unspeakably bad.

Disco Inferno wrote:

YOWZERS! You Yanks sure know how to make a butt-ugly car...

Frankly I've never seen such an ugly heap of junk before.

EDIT: Yes I have. Your new Pontiac GTO. When those are over here as Monaros they look **nice**. Once they get hit with the USA-branded ugly stick, they're shocking. Horrifically, unspeakably bad.

I totally agree, pontiac sure knows how to take a car and make it ugly. I think the monaro lacks style as well, but at least the front looks a lot better.

Granted, that Jeep isn't the greatest, but I would say it's mostly the wheels that detract from its looks. And what exactly did they do with the GTO that draws a comment like that? I've seen photos of both, and there's very little difference between the GTO and the Monaro. Honestly, I'm less than impressed with either of them.

In your not so humble Down-Under opinion, what would constitute a more handsome vehicle? A Holden Ute maybe, or perhaps a One-Tonner?

I hate Monaros. Personally, I think ALL Holdens and Fords are bland(the Ford Fiesta and Focus being two exceptions).

IMHO, a stylish car is a Volkswagen Golf, a Volvo S60, pretty much everything Audi(gotta love 'em), and the expensive stuff like the Porsche 911 and Cayenne(fat, but strangely attarractive). Anything with soft curves, maybe with a side of well-chosen sharp angles, a nice profile, etc.

But I can see the difference between the 'ugly' lot. Monaros are tidy and to-the-point. The GTO, on the other hand, has been bastardized; just LOOK at it. Blech. It's like comparing one of those big expensive Dell towers(whatever they're called... 8400 or something) to the iMac. One has too much of all the wrong design elements, one is made to only include the right stuff.

And as for that jeep... the general shape is a tad too quirky, the lights(front & rear from what I can make out) are just not right(at all)... well, I can see it, you can't. Maybe those who live in the Land of Poorly Built and Quite Ugly Cars have been de-sensitised to the 'blech' thing.

At the risk of this becoming an Ausie vs. Yankee flame war, I think that vehicles from Down Under suffer from terminal ugliness. I'm not talking about the European imports & whatnot, but almost every car I've seen from Australia just doesn't look right. Something out of balance, out of proportion. Late-model cars are better, but I really see it in Ausie iron from the 70's and 80's; they just look goofy. Many appear to be modeled after Detroit machines, but they look like the designers that had bad glasses on or something.

Don't take this personally; you may like the machines that I say look goofy, but you didn't design them, so I don't fault you for it. I think there is maybe something in our heads that get's set early on and tells us what looks right and what is goofy. Just a cultural thing maybe.

You can't tell the final product from those pictures. The rims are most likely black so it doesn't draw attention on the road. The front is covered to keep the redesign more secretive before the grand unveiling. It's just a road tester to work out bugs before it goes into mass production.

The US does not make the worst looking vehicles on the worlds' highways. Look at all the half cars in Europe. And you can thank the soccer moms for the bigger is better mentality. SUVs are the new MiniVan

Audi's with style? They all look the same. Exact same lines on every single one. They arent ugly, they just lack class and distinction.

Yikes, I can't think a single good looking GM USA model that isn't puke-fugly! Even the soooo-well-loved Corvette is an esthetic joke. I wouldn't drive a modern USA GM car even if paid to do so.

Most SUVs are butt ugly, and this new Jeep fits right in, though it can't really hold an ugly-candle to the GMC, Cadillac and Toyota humungo SUVs. I see people driving these monstrosities and pity their total lack of esthetic judgement. I guess Jeep figures to build a product just as fugly as their competition, being that's what sells and all.

And now for something completely different:
We just got back to (boring) NJ from a weeklong CA trip, SF and environs (CA Rt. 1, think lots(!) of twisties) Rented a Ford Focus from Budget ($125 for a week, wow!) and I was very impressed with the car. Nicely built, tight suspension, snappy twincam motor, responsive auto trans, well-weighted steering, decent seats, clear, well laid-out controls and instruments - almost felt German! (Actually, I think it was designed in Germany . . . or thereabouts.)

I'm a very . . . ummm, rapid . . . driver, tend to regularly use car up to 8/10ths and frequently beyond, and the Focus proved well up to the challenge, a blast to drive. We almost got stuck with some POS Chevy (don't even know the model), but I squeaked very loudly til I got a Focus.

{dreaming}
Mmmmm, Rt. 1 from Stinson Beach up to Mendocino, averaging over 50 mph on some of the greatest twisties in the States . . . heh heh heh
{/dreaming}

(Wakes up) Wahhhhh . . . damn, I wanna go back!!

dan k

The focus was original designed by cosworth, which is european, but not german

Yes, almost all Australian cars built since the 40shave looked dumb. Whatever(take the Holden VZ Commodore as the number 1 example-and it's brand new- and the second worse offender is the 1999 Ford AU Falcon).

Personally I think the stupid wars between 'holden people' and 'ford people' are... stupid... why do so many people get so passionate about companies that make their money pumping out family cars? Anyone's guess. But I don't see how they're built in an odd-looking, out-of-proportion way; I think the way most of them are so perfectly proportioned is somewhat at fault for the blandness thing.

After thinking for a bit, I remembered what the majority of Euro cars(older ones mostly) look like- and they win hands-down in the ugliness competition.

But USA-built cars come in second.

I can't stand the mini-car/huge-expanse-of-metel-with-a-tiny-tire look of a lot of japanese cars. When it comes to bigger/fancy/luxury european cars, they are quite pretty except for volvos (boring looking, uninspiring, not ugly). I like audis/volkswagons/saabs(i know they are offically gm)/bmw/jag (i know its offically a ford made in england but its all the same to me: european)/mercedes.

I do not like the look of minihatchbacks that is so common in europe. Its just boriing. Its like the minivan look of the states. They all look alike and boring. No excitement.

I have no idea about the holden-vs-ford arguments in AU, however in the states, most true car guys are raised to love one make over another. Its a mindset thing. Its like how peolpe who love macintoshs are very passionate about Apple over Dell and so forth. So Disco, if you replace holden and ford with Apple and Dell, you might be able to understnd why billy bob will ONLY drive fords wheresas his buddy Bobby Bill will only drive chevys and why each of them have a calvin sticker on the back "winder" of their pickup where Calvin is pissing on either a ford or chevy logo.

Me? I couldn't care less what brand of car i drove, however I was soured on GM products in the 80's so i havne't bought a gm product since 1987 on purpose (i was given a cavilier from a friend when i was poor, it lasted us 2 years until we sold it). I just hate the new styling of the new compact cars that are coming out from japanese manufacters, extremely fugly and faux-cutesy (yuck). I do like the big japanese cars, like lexus and infiniti and what-not.

I would say a "true car guy" like ANY car. Not just one brand. The people who like just one brand are either just stuburn, or ignorant. In some cases, both. No one brand is better then all the others. Each has good and bad cars (well except maybe mitsu, no good cars come to mind from them).

I dont see how people can like JUST one brand. All brands have their lemons, their ugly ducklings, etc.

Why can't these people do what I do and like the CARS themselves, instead of just the badge?

I don't know if the both of you are from the US, but here in the US, a great amount of car guys will only be faithful to one brand or another. I think its an American thing.

In the American car world a choice of cars is quite often racially stereotyped too. Examples, Asians will go for the Japanese cars, blacks going for the Caddy's, rednecks going for the big 3 (Chevy, Ford, Dodge), hispanics going for the old american luxobarges (Chevy Caprices, Caddy's, Impalas, etc), liberals (ie. which include a lot of mac users, LOL) going for the German cars, etc. Those might be stereotypes and NOT true in most areas but in some high profile areas, these stereotypes do hold up.

I think a lot of it is peer pressure why they will stick with one brand/make/style of car.

I'm one of the types that doens't care what brand I drive, just so long I like it. Even my kids at school notice the racial stereotyping of automobiles. It just happens.

Just as an example, go to your favorite honda message board, you will see a disproportionate amount of Asians who are members compared to the actual ratio of Asians who make of the population of the US. Go to the mustang board and will see very few if any Asian members. Go to your nascar message board and see if you can find any member of a minority. It just works out like that.

They have the same mindset as mac users in their defense of Apple. Apple has put out some duds in the past but we don't care, apple is still number one in our book no matter what.

Please do NOT read any thing about ME in this posting, is purely what I see on otherboards and in real-life where i live and have visited that makes me draw these opinions.

Yes, I am american. Born and raised in california. And I know lots of people who are loyal to one brand, but I dont consider them true car guys either. I know others who will work on anything with wheels, like myself. Thats what I consider a true car person.

Well "true car guy" is a bad choice of words. I really don't know what to call the people that are extremely overly loyal to one car brand over all others just for the sake of being loyal.

I do know that if they are that loyal to one brand/genre of car, then most likely they are highly knowledgeable about cars (quite a bit more so than the average car fan) which is why i called them "true car guys".

Most of the guys/girls I know who are super ultra loyal to one brand really dont know that much about cars. They know some sure, but they are far from being at a mechanics level. As when you you really get to know vehicles, you find out they are more or lesss all the same. They look different, and have slightly different designs, but they all rely on the same set oh physics to work. Every maker has bad cars, and they all have good cars. No one company is better then another.

Sure, basic technologies differ little, but the way cars satisfy different briefs varies widely. Can y'all see qualitative differences between a Hundai and a Lotus? Between a Chevy and a BMW? A Cadillac and a Bentley? For some those differences may be too subtle to matter, for others the differences loom large.

I'm more of a driving enthusiast than a car enthusiast. Cars which are responsive, handle well and are fun-to-drive rank higher on my desirables list than those that are sluggish, slovenly and boring. Having driven lots of cars hard, I've found some makers produce cars that fit my brief and others don't.

So some makers have lots of cars on my list and others have none. I have zero Hundais on my list but several BMWs, no GM cars but I'd drive any Porsche. So for me, I have to disagree with the notion all makers are interchangable or equal.

My priorities favor a certain set of qualities which I recognize not everyone shares. For example, for many transportation is paramount, in which case subtle distinctions between makers' lines are meaningless. A Hundai is just as useful as a Mercedes Benz, a Pontiac equals a Porsche.

dan k

Well of course different makers cater to different markets. What I was saying is liking one brand and hating all others is ignorant, because it has no basis in reality. Liking a certain style of car is not the same thing. If you like small nimble cars, then those are the cars you go after (Miata, S2000, MR2, etc), or if you like a real 4x4, you go for a 70's Jeep or EB Bonco. If you have a family, you go for a family car. Not the same as brand loyalty based on nothingg but the fact that you like it and hate others imho.

BTW: ANY porsche, even the 68hp 914?

I think it's so amusing when, in some movies, said gutless Porsche is shown getting the cr*p kicked out of it and it's made to look 'fast'... may as well be driving a Volkswagen Beetle.(yes I'm aware that the same year-model Beetle technically had less power and more weight... but... go away )

Have either of you two pundits actually driven an early 914?

I found them delightful to drive, a blast, plain fun. Sure they're not at all powerful but that's not the point. The handling and general responsiveness surpasses anything (affordable) of the era, even the concurrent (and expensive) 911 was a comparative handful.

So yes, any Porsche.

dan k

Pundits? /me shakes his head

As for driving them yes. I have driven a bone stock 4cyl, and one setup for racing a class where you can mod anything, except the engine. So it was still gutless as hell, but it did handle like it was on rails. The 911 is more of a handful because it has power, and therefor needs somebody who knows how to drive in order for it to be pushed to its limits.

Anyone who is disin the new jeep betta shut up, its sik, especially the SRT8 just take a look at these photos of it at http://www.wkjeeps.com/wk_srt8.htm

and for the record Aussie dont make shitty looking cars,
so dont dis em.im from aust and neither Aust or US(except Pontiac) make bad looking cars.

Could you please define "dis"/"disin"? Not sure where that word comes from but it sure as heck ain't in the language spoken by most Australians... *scratches head*

it means disrespect
and yes it isn't spoken by most aussies but there is a minority

Hey! Hey! reminds me of the Canyonero from the simpsons

no its doesn't it look awesome, can't wait till it hits down unda,
has ne1 seen the interior or hav ne pics if u do could u post em plse

i take that bak FORD AUSTRALIA dont make shitty looking cars, as for Holden well thats another story alltogether

I think that the rivalry is mainly the cause of the V8 Supercar Seires and the competion between Ford and Holden

I can see how that V8 supercar thing would create the rivalry thing... not the other way around, tho. Supercars is about advertising(not only Ford and Holden, but all the brand names the cars have splattered all over them). Hellishly blatant advertising. But I suppose for the(ignorant) people that don't realise this, it's all about H vs F- and, like all sports, people are bound to take sides.

Still doesn't explain why it happens in other countries.

Oh, and if that dog of a ricey Jeep makes it over here(God help us)... Chrysler/Jeep Australia will probably lose at least 80% of its sales, as hardly anyone would want a car from the company that created such an eyesore. Yes, I feel that, based on my own opinion, I can speak for 8/10 of Chrysler/Jeep owners.

Disco Inferno wrote:

I can speak for 8/10 of Chrysler/Jeep owners.

No you can't i own a Jeep and i think that sales will INCREASE 80%, most ppl that buy BMW X5's and Porshe Caynne's (and there is alot of them) will change over to the SRT8 Jeep because its cheaper and more powerful/luxurius

No, it's ugly.

hey disco where in Oz r u, im on the beautiful gold coast

My attempts to stir you up seem to have failed... blast.

I'm in the Illawarra area, but let's try to stay on-topic here.

As for my comment about Chrysler/Jeep owners abandoning the brand because of one butt-ugly model, well, I think all of their vehicles('cept the Jeep Wrangler) are rather fugly, so my logic is clearly flawed.

But BMW and Porsche customers are after a BMW or a Porsche; if they'd look at anything else, it'd be a Volvo XC90 or VW Touareg at **least**. A Jeep would be completely out of the question for someone going for a bulkier version of a luxury car.

Same thing as when Dodge did Ram redesign: If 2 out of 3 people hate it, and only 1 of 3 love it, they'll still gain market share. Even my fathers 11-12 year old 1994 Ram 2500 v10 looks pretty good and modern as long as you aren't enough of a Mopar fan to notice the grill.