AF Kinda Becoming Dead?

Speaking for myself, I don't plan to spend much time here anymore, simply due to the attitude I'm getting from more and more members. All my light-hearted posts create arguments, all thoughts I give based on personal experience attract insults...

I just don't like this forum anymore. Kinda sucks. Not the design/layout/content- the members, and mostly new ones at that.

I agree with everything you said, and would like to add the following:

Too many uber-noobs posting in all caps asking HOW CN I GET MY IPOD TO WORK WIHT WINDOWSS???????????????????? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...how can i get my IPOD ... nope, just kidding! well, maybe the ones you are complaining about will be the af geeks of the future?

ok, they may be green behind the ears now, but i think it's also the duty of people with more experience to teach others, isn't it? since i'm member here on 'fritter, i have learned a lot (even tough i'm certified apple technician ;-). learning is not something that happens, it's growing every day.

what do you think?

EDIT: i see, the guy with the iPod "problem" must be very smart... exclude this one from my above statements, ok?

It's been fine here.

The PowerExpress thread has been an amazing read that I've been checking daily for weeks now, and there's been a lot of other stuff, too. Check out Dankephoto's ipod thread. Take a look at the G3 in IIgs hack.

I'll agree that there's not as much friendly banter here as there used to be, if that's what you mean, but there's also not as much 'me too! ;) :) :)' posting that used to make reading Recent Posts an exercise in frustration.

I just wish I didn't have to use a proxy to access the site from home. And I miss some of our long-term members, especially jt.

I agree. I've been around for years, and now that I've gone to DSL I've lost access to AF unless I proxy (sucks) or switch to dialup just to use the forums (kinda sucks). I'd sure like to be able to get on more, but I can only use on machine that's got a modem, switch off the ethernet, turn on the modem, dial out, and use AF in all the slow glory (haha) of 56k... I'm already getting spoiled like back when I had cable access. (back then we were one of the first markets for Comcast to upgrade to 3.0 Mbps standard) I didn't have any AF trouble back then, but that was before everyone else started having the trouble too. No AF is the only downside to DSL so far. And I can't beat the price, $14.95/mo. Almost as cheap as dialup! Cable costs $45/65. Bleck. I'd sure be around more if it wasn't such a headache to do severl times a day...

I guess people don't repect Mac nosolga these days.

is some young blood interested in old macs. I personally enjoy them, but most young people are either g5 or windoze driven, and not into the fun of old macs...i only wish i could have more than just my performa. I do wish for a powermac g4, but old macs are lots of fun, just not for final cut.

I'm 16, and I love old macs. I just haven't been on much of late due to my internet connection being down/dropping out constantly.

Is anyone interested in discussing a new home computer?

I'm not a Mac person, and visit this site exclusively because of the Apple II content, but would welcome any feedback from open-minded people who would like to help recover the home market. My blog here at AF has some proposed specs for a true home computer.

I am going to build this thing regardless, as it's been my dream for over 13 years and it's time to make it happen.

Your respect for history that unfolded prior to your birth is to be commended in this postmodern, anything-goes age. It is probable all you've ever experienced is PC-dominated market, with the Macintosh running a distant "me too!" second. It wasn't always this way.

Kind Regards,

I've often thought I was born 10 or 15 years too late. I would have loved to experience the era of do-it-yourself computers. Even though I try my best now, it just isn't the same. The people are different, the attitudes have changed, and true nerds like ourselves are a dying race.

i started using macintosh when I was 5 (and I used an apple II when I was 3) so, I have always been an apple fanatic since then. I am 20 now, and still prefer apples. So if this were 10 years ago, I would be in the "Young blood" market area. I have just been frustrated with the apple/intel thing. But as long as apple is around, I will always have one in my household. regardless of the CPU.

I have always tried to be polite on these forums. Sometimes I stray from that, and when corrected, I learn.
We seem to have people who come on here and Spam/Make trouble, just b/c they only know how to dial onto the net. But, as Computer GUI-end use becomes easier to use, we don't have the hobbyest that were there when there computers were a lot harder to use. So people haven't bothered to get into the underlyings of the machine. Mainly b/c they don't have to.
Then we get the people who come here, just to cause trouble, (to bug us for being knowlegable about machines.) and decide to make us mad.
That is kinda a pet peeve where I go in my world. I get a lot of people who look at me weird, because computers are my life. And I get criticised for it.
It makes it hard to come here with the trouble makers that come on just to make it a harder place to do stuff.
We also have some impolite people who come on here (not the main people) who don't watch what they say, and end up causing trouble in the long run, only to get themselves banned. The true Fritter Critter's (thank you so much for whoever came up with that ) watches what they say, and actually consider that their rudeness can cause hurt/trouble. It would help if we were to establish an outline of code of conduct

Yep. I'm twice your age and I wish I were born about 20 years earlier. But I don't think the joy of computing - of the computer as both object and tool in learning - has to die. M******t offers the McDonald's of operating systems - one size fits all. Attitudes (unless you're studying computer science) are generally "How fast is it? How much RAM does it have?" The computer is reduced to a cheap appliance. Kids are no longer inspired to program - which develops the brain. I doubt whether Western society will ever again produce a Beethoven, an Einstein, or a Pasteur, unless we revive in our collective experience the notion of independent discovery and individual creativity. Otherwise we're all nothing but automatons in a great machine, void of individual purpose.

On the other hand, what I am trying to do would not be as easy ten or 15 years ago without the Web. Everything I need to know is out there, or at the library. The question is, what does one do with that information? What is the motivation. FWIW I grew up on what you call do-it-yourself computers, and am thankful for that. I hope to make the Woz very proud one day.

How's this for old-school...
I want to design an eniac replica and learn to program that.

Sweet! :-) Got a school gym to put it in?

I was thinking it would take a large bread board to do it. I am talking with my friend on how to best do the input. Especially since, the original had no keyboard. We are thinking seven switches with an 8th to put it into memory. then a graphing calculator screen for output. It will be some work to do it. We will be using a lot of integrated circuits to do it. I already have a rom made out for it.

thats awesome...this is what i was talking about.
"do-it-yourself computing"
theMike

having the internet helps a lot these days. it offers a lot of info. Put back then, it was a trial by error process. and we still have those people. They design the very computers that we use today.

If you are serious, please accept my apology. That sounds like a very cool project. I thought you had intended the remark sarcastically, so I responded in kind. My apologies.

That is truly a great project. You will get to retrace a little piece of history and see how early computer engineers had to think, and on a similar level of detail. Kudos.

I just like to dabble with history that I have always wanted to live in. I figure that the eniac was the perfect place to start, as it was the first digital computer (I dont count the engima [the WWII Nazi Message decrypter] because it was analog) however, the enigma would have been awesome to see. I think it is in the smithsonian. But one day I will go visit the part of the eniac in the Smith Institute. Great big relics are fun, right guys?

http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/

It's summer up here in the arctic circle. So people are probably spending more time outdoors now that the polar bears have been cast away on the ice drifts.

Seriously though, it's typical of web forums to experience some slow times during the summer months. People aren't couped up in their houses anymore and avoiding the harsh winter weather. I'm confident that activity on the Fritter will pick up as the novelty of summer wears thin.

I, too, am one of those people that lives for the almighty computer. I find them fascinating and I have found them to hold great intrigue for as long as I can remember. Computers are tools like no other. Computers are to the techno-artiste what paint and canvas are to the visual creator. The computer is magic and the Macintosh captures that magic like no other that I have ever seen or used.

The only other forum I know of to go to as an Apple II user and programmer is a2central.com, but until they reactivate my account, there is no other place. It would be nice to discuss the technical challenges of designing the next home computer. Whether that happens or not, I am going to build it, with or without help or support. It's been a dream for 13 years, and the present excuses for home computers (the IBM PC) are flat-out unacceptable for children and casual users. I cannot speak to the Macintosh as a machine, as I've never used one. I hear it is very good for right-brain activities like art and music.

All non- and former-non PC users - Mac, Amiga, C64, GS, and Apple II - long deep down for that void that has never been filled: the machine they can turn on and use, program, and love. One they can approach, learn from, and look at.

It is rather telling that M******* is presently running a contest to have people write in of their fondest W*****s memory. The top prize is lunch with **** ***** and probably some cash. The fact is, while the PC is the indisputable dominant player for business, it does not engender "fond memories". It is a tool, a dumb appliance that, no matter how many billions of billions of clock cycles they can squeeze into a second, will always be just that. It will NEVER touch those other machines in terms of the kind of value for which M******** is soliciting, which cannot be quantified.

[edited]

Research the ABC (Atanasoff-Berry Computer) and the legal battle that Mauchley LOST over the rights to the technology behind the Eniac. It wan NOT the first digtal computer, it was NOT the first to use many of the technologies that the history books have been late in giving the real credit for. John V. Atanasoff was the "Forgotten Father" of the computer, as the title of his biography explains. Eniac was built on stolen ideas and technology that was hidden until the '76 or so Supreme Court ruled against Sperry-Rand (the company that then controlled the patents) and in favor of Atanasoff. Read the REAL history, or you will be forever in the dark of the truth.

BTW: And ENIAC was programmed by moving the actual wiring of the system for each program that was to run. It had hard-wired programming. You probably want to model one of the early stored-program computers, such as the Babbage Analytical Engine, or something later, maybe it was the EDVAC or the first Univac? Anyway, the stored program model would be much better to implement.

Have fun, any-which-way.

EDIT: I have seen, in person, a real Enigma machine. I was at DefCon 8 or so, and at the end of the last day, when the vendors were clearing out the hall someone brought in a wooden box. It was pure luck we were where we were (myself and ax0n and friends) as it was totally unannounced. Inside was a familiar button layout and rows of lightbulbs. And, of course the three rubber wheels. We didn't get ti see it in action, IIRC, but it was an awesome sight to see one of the most notorious enciphering machines of history from two feet away, and no safety glass!

...just slightly comatose. Okay so I'm prob'ly not the best person to be speaking on this matter as I haven't dropped in for a good long while now.

I trawl through occasionally but work and personal commitments kinda keep me away from the computer, let alone AF. In some respects I miss the old days - like when the original forums came online.

These days (and I'm sounding like a real toothless old-timer I guess) I find the forums lacking a certain something that we had before we transferred over to Drupal. They used to be thriving with hundreds of posts a day, now it seems they've faded away to almost nothing. You could post a message at 9am and by 5pm it had reached 40 replies and you'd kept up an amusing conversation with jt or Dr Webster for an hour or so.

We need new blood to keep the site going otherwise it will die out completely, it's the community that makes AF what it is, we can't just rely on Tom's efforts to keep the place ticking over...

I've been tossing the idea back and forth with a couple folks, and am considering bringing back The 'Fritter (with a different name, and a couple of new distribution ideas). Would that spark any interest?

Note: This hasn't been flown past Tom yet.

I check AF daily, when I see a post I can help with, I try to do so, when I see a need for dry humor, I offer such (mainly to add color), when I need help, I post and genuinely hope for help. I was a lurker onthe old AF and did join before the change. The only thing I really miss is the way comments stack when people replied to different posts (tree/branch style) vs. the single monolithic listing we have know. I find that sometimes, we have side discussions within a post and five people can be posting about 9 things and things get kind of confusing when you are not sure which reply goes to which.

If you do anything, bring back the branches, we do okay with the new folks (adding a iPod forum) and the traditional users still have their forums (68K). We keep a good eye out for spammers, the site is pretty well kept up, I like it here (but yes, I do go over to the barracks for the hard core questions on Newtons and NuBus Macs - only because that site is so specific to those Macs).

I think the problem here is just a minor generation clash (not so much older folks vs. younger folks, but late G4/G5 users bugging early G3 and 68K users with questions and issues that do not usually bridge the gap and asking their questions in ways that show their inexperience. Not to say that they are clueless, but someone who has never owned anything younger than a G4 will have no clue what something means to the owner of an SE and should accordingly stay out of those posts unless they are just reading. (Note who I never post in the Apple I and Apple II forums - I am cluless on such matters).

Perhaps it would make sense to splinter off a new forum for G4/G5 machines. We will most definetley need to do this when the InteliMacs hit the market. "PowerMacs and Software" may be too generic for our needs...

But that is just my opinion.

I think the problem is that the forums have become a lot less light hearted and fun. I used to come to AF and have a good time- now it seems more about projects with less fun sprinkled in. I noticed this happening after the swith to AF 2.0. I mmiss the old forums....

The old forums rocked. I think the less friendly look of these ones, coupled with all the annoying bugs when we were first pushed into these ones, have turned a *lot* of old members subconsciously sour toward the forums.

Exactly- the old forums seemed much more frivolus. They were more about fun- with less necessity to be so prudent. Any possiblilty of moving back to the old forums' design?

Don't think that would help. At this point it's probably best if we just let it go.

As in, let AF go? I think that would be a horrible idea. I'm quite addicted to this place.

is that we will just move on with the new forum design...instead of going back to the old design.

We could have a contest for the best new design and/or put all of the old forums in a arcive. Just a thought.....

Hmmm. What I was missing here is that I had my user setting on "Flat List" vice "Threaded List". I did not realize that this was a defeult setting and never paid attention to that before today. Changing it back to "Threaded" puts things into a better view because it allows for better following of conversations that may diverge slightly from the topic.

That being said, I retract my remarks made about the view since there is already a setting to handle this, just wish I had known months ago when the change was made.