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Mac minis and Classic OS

Submitted by doug-doug the mighty on August 30, 2005 - 12:28pm. PowerPC Macs

Pardon the redundancy (if any) of this question.

I have decided to go for a Mac mini, but I wanted to know if the sales guy was right about running Classic OS on a Mac mini. They said that you can run Classic, but only as through X and that the machine will not boot from Classic via CD or installed on the Hard drive. I was hoping that this was not true and this last breed of PPC would be able to rise to the challenge.

Is the guy right, or do I have any hope of running pure Classic?

If I must run X, that is not the end of the world for me, but it takes some of the magic out of what I was hoping to accomplish with this machine.

Also, any tips or extras I should consider as add-ons to this purchase?

TIA

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Submitted by word03 on August 30, 2005 - 1:05pm.

Ab-so-lutely nooo chance of running OS 9 on a mini. Go back 3 years or so and maybe a few new Macs will run 9 natively, but not anymore.

You'd probably have a better chance of getting Windows to run on it. Just pick up a cube if you want something similar that does 9.

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iantm's picture

Ummmm

Submitted by iantm on August 30, 2005 - 1:33pm.

Every machine released since January 2003 does not have support for Native Mac OS 9 booting. (the last of the titaniums were released prior to this and limped along until the aluminum 15" came out in september 2003). However, Classic mode within OS X will work on any machine running OS X. Everything from a Beige G3 to a Dual 2.7 G5 will run classic, but you'll need to install it. For me, I haven't had to use classic much in the last few years. I still have a few old games and apps that I fire up on occasion in classic and they work fine on my 1.5ghz PB G4. Unless you're using an application that requires native booting of OS 9, you'll be fine with Classic. There are a few apps that did, I just don't remember which ones.

- iantm

» - iantm
ACDT & ACPT
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`~`

Submitted by vantage point on August 30, 2005 - 6:36pm.
doug-doug the mighty wrote:
If I must run X, that is not the end of the world for me, but it takes some of the magic out of what I was hoping to accomplish with this machine.

You have my complete and undivided attention. A Mac-Mini and a requirement that it be able to run a Classic Mac OS exclusively... Hmmm, yes, you have my complete attention...

Magic? A Mac-Mini, Classic Mac OS, and Magic? My curiousity has been piqued...

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davintosh's picture

Add-ons

Submitted by davintosh on August 31, 2005 - 3:23am.

I'd spend the extra 100 or so clams to get the AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth, along with the slightly faster processor and double the hard drive capacity.

And don't forget to check the Special Deals section on the Apple Store page for refurbs. There are some 1.42MHz units with AirPort, Bluetooth, and Superdrive for $629. Suhweeet!

And no, the mini won't run OS 9 natively; only in Classic mode. But that'll do everything for you that doesn't involve direct interaction with hardware. The latest models that I've seen that are dual boot are the mirror-door G4's. We've got a 1.25GHz DP (I think) at work that will do OS 9, but it runs much better in OS X.

» Obsolescence is just a lack of imagination.
Visit my blog: davintosh.com -- it may not be up to date, and it may not be exciting, but you can say you've been there.

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doug-doug the mighty's picture

Re: Add-ons

Submitted by doug-doug the mighty on August 31, 2005 - 5:56pm.
davintosh wrote:
But that'll do everything for you that doesn't involve direct interaction with hardware.

Hmmm, I was planning on adding a few dongles to support some older hardware:

  • USB to ADB dongle
  • USB to Serial dongle(Mac Serial)
  • USB or Firwire to SCSI dongle/adapter

I do not have a specific list of accessories that I am looking to support, but vague ideas. Any level of support I can get from these dongles for said hardware genres is great. Nothing should be OS specific. I just prefered 9 to X for this particular project due to personal preference. If I am running Classic (through X) and I can use the above mentioned dongling, I will be set.

» --DDTM ('Fritter Critter' since Apr 26 2004 - 18:16)

'If it ain't broke, take it apart anyways. If you can't take it apart, break it so that you can fix it.'

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davintosh's picture

Adapters

Submitted by davintosh on September 1, 2005 - 1:18am.

There are drivers for the USB to ADB dongle from Keyspan (I think) that'll make Classic talk with ADB devices. No idea on the serial or SCSI adapters. The general rule though is that the only way that Classic apps can talk with hardware is with OS X as an intermediary. Bad deal, but it's the nature of the beast.

» Obsolescence is just a lack of imagination.
Visit my blog: davintosh.com -- it may not be up to date, and it may not be exciting, but you can say you've been there.

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coius's picture

Re: Ummmm

Submitted by coius on September 1, 2005 - 4:20am.
iantm wrote:
Every machine released since January 2003 does not have support for Native Mac OS 9 booting. - iantm

Actually, the September 2003 ibooks would boot (I think those were G3) would boot into OS 9. I could be wrong on this.

» troubleshootnow.com. When you need to troubleshoot NOW! Forum site for macs and PCs. We are happy to help you troubleshoot. Home WebPage: coius.info <-Served off an iMac in my roo

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merty's picture

Re: Ummmm

Submitted by merty on September 1, 2005 - 6:43am.
coius wrote:
iantm wrote:
Every machine released since January 2003 does not have support for Native Mac OS 9 booting. - iantm

Actually, the September 2003 ibooks would boot (I think those were G3) would boot into OS 9.2.2 I could be wrong on this.

Actually Apple history claims that the last Macintosh that was could run is the emac (ATI Graphics).
Introduced: May 2003
Terminated: April 2004

http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=emac_ati&performa=off&sort=date

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W00t!

Submitted by Diorama on September 2, 2005 - 12:13pm.

So my eMac (avec ATI Radeon 7500) is the last mac that will natively boot into OS9?

» > eMac 1GHz ATI Graphics, iMac DV, 2x Black Performa, 2x Powerbook 145, 3x LCIII, LC, LCII, LC475, Performa475, 2x Classic, SE, Quadra 800, Power Macintosh 8600 (with G3 Card), Power Macintosh 6400, Powerbook 540, Powerbook 540c.

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merty's picture

apple says....

Submitted by merty on September 2, 2005 - 10:30pm.

this document made by apple. Mac OS 8 and 9 compatibility with Macintosh computers. claims that the only emac (ati graphics) that can be booted up in os 9.2.2 is the eMac (ATI Graphics) - CD-ROM and Combo Drive not the superdrive. So now I can't exactly say if it can or not.
but check out.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25114

But I have seen the first Emac and run os 9.2.2. it booted up quickly.
and also have a early 2003 model ibook boot up in 9.2.2.

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martakz's picture

Run a base install of linux,

Submitted by martakz on September 11, 2005 - 2:56am.

Run a base install of linux, then run mac on linux on top of that - and with that run mac os 9?

With some tweaking it should be quite usable...

» Now using x86 machines. Bye bye iMac266 (Strawberry), G3 1400 and the G3 IIsi.

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merty's picture

Smart Idea

Submitted by merty on September 11, 2005 - 3:54am.

that is one smart idea. Smiling

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Jon's picture

That is a decnet idea, but th

Submitted by Jon on September 11, 2005 - 6:04am.

That is a decnet idea, but this is better:
http://maconmac.bastix.net/

» I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls

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Great Typos

Submitted by charlieman on September 11, 2005 - 11:27am.
Jon wrote:
That is a decnet idea...

I was flummoxed for a minute about what connects a networking protocol for VAX computers with running Classic OS...

DECnet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DECnet

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martakz's picture

Re: That is a decnet idea, but th

Submitted by martakz on September 11, 2005 - 8:16pm.
Jon wrote:
That is a decnet idea, but this is better:
http://maconmac.bastix.net/

True Jon. I was going to sugest that, but I thought it would be easier to get performance using the linux machine, as you could run a very basic install.

On the other hand, with Mac OS X running in the background there is going to be less CPU time and far less RAM avaliable for the OS 9 machine.

Still, i'm glad you posted that link. I wasn't aware that the project has progressed so far.

» Now using x86 machines. Bye bye iMac266 (Strawberry), G3 1400 and the G3 IIsi.

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eeun's picture

Why won't it boot?

Submitted by eeun on September 11, 2005 - 8:45pm.

What prevents OS 9 from installing / booting on post-2003 Macs?

Is there enough difference in the hardware that it 'breaks' OS 9, or is it just something simple like not recognizing the gestalt ID or some such? (Wish I Were comes to mind)

» Jack of all Trades, Tinkerer and Dabbler in the Obscure and Nonsensical.
3 stories posted
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Jon's picture

I'll make a wild stab in the

Submitted by Jon on September 11, 2005 - 8:59pm.

I'll make a wild stab in the dark and guess that they made the OF not load the APPL.ROM anymore.

» I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do I feel that the world must live up to mine. - Fritz Perls

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merty's picture

PCs have a redeeming feature

Submitted by merty on September 11, 2005 - 9:30pm.
coius wrote:
when I did my post about getting a dell latitude to work with 2k, a person posted that they threw XP on it. It was a P 1 MMX 166. They said it was unbearebly slow.

1 thing I love about the x86 machines, is that unlike Macintosh's. It is not limited to the ROM as to what will run on it. I had a 486 try to play a DVD. After about 1hr of it trying to render 1 frame, i just shut it off. I don't see a 68k doing that anytime soon. Same is true for reverse. You can run MS-Dos 1.0 on a brand new P4. Those machines accept anything that you throw at the CPU. Maybe the x86 chips have 1 redeeming feature

Imagine running system 1 on a g5 not possible without a emulator or a hack.
but how fast would it go if it was possible

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Eudimorphodon's picture

Re: Why won't it boot?

Submitted by Eudimorphodon on September 12, 2005 - 4:10pm.
eeun wrote:
What prevents OS 9 from installing / booting on post-2003 Macs?

Is there enough difference in the hardware that it 'breaks' OS 9, or is it just something simple like not recognizing the gestalt ID or some such? (Wish I Were comes to mind)

The cutoff point is the Macs which have DDR RAM. (AKA "Intrepid" system controllers, which incude AGP 4x, a new ethernet controller, etc.) Most everything with the "Uni-N" ASIC will run it directly. That is a significant difference in hardware, so my guess is that it would of taken some non-trivial (in Apple's view, given the non-profit status of the Classic MacOS) engineering to get hardware-dependant drivers to work on the new architecture.

Whether a "Wish-I-Were" sort of solution is "possible" depends on how much hardware-dependant stuff there is in the APPL.ROM, and whether the new firmware includes every "hook" needed to work with it. In any case it'd likely have to include a custom bootloader to "fake out" the new OF, and there's a good chance that little things like USB, video accelleration, etc, (anything which depends on loaded drivers/extensions) would be badly broken.

Of course, taking a modern OS X machine and forcing OS 9 on it would be sort of like a forcing a Shakespearean actor to get a lobotomy in order to play a handicapped person, but... eh. Whatever floats your boat.

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re launching boats

Submitted by doc vanness on September 23, 2005 - 4:29am.

sometimes a specific application is what the doctor ordered. I for one as an example find that ADOBE 7 is all I truely need for my graphics work. the other software uses up far too much memory of course thats using the other foremat where the helps programs are 150 or more MB of wasted memory. If I could get a system with an apple that ran an Adobe Photoshop 7 I would be a happy camper. who needs the suete when the regular stuff works. and besides one might expect a well trained actyor of the Stanislauskey or Boleslaskey ilk to do quite well portraying anyone you ask.

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