Hostility

I would say something but I don't ever say very much.

I just feel that that the attacks are getting too personal, with the attacks directed at people, and not the idea's the present. With this, people are attacking people, without disregard to feelings, and all of them end ultimately with a locked forum.

I hate you. But don't take it personally... everyone hates you.

colus, you could be right... or it could just be a natural phenomena, uh, law of averages sort of thing... I forget what that's called... hopefully, things will swing back in time for holiday cheer. Anyway, I really appreciate the feelings of guilt and shame. Jerk (I'm gonna get banned, aren't I? But I was just kidding!)

I have to admit... I... haven't been paying much attention to netiquite... I remember reading about this, and on this site... I'm going to go read that again.

So you're saying that Applefritter is becoming less of a site for engineers and artists, and more of something reminiscent of Canadian Parliament? It's all poltics, I tell ya...

Politics, Politics, Politics...

The site has waayy gone off of what is considered what Tom Owad planned it to be. Everyone has turned into "shoot off critisms first, apologize later" I have had threads closed on me when i am inappropriate. And I learn from that. In fact, I apologzie to everyone that I have offended. But I don't go posting a thread badmouthing the people who banned the thread, or the site owner. They are here to make sure everyone plays nice. I DO learn that when I am immature, I know that I need to straighten up.
I don't go make it harder on everyone, especially when i know I have been wrong. I just believe everyone should follow this rule. I also believe, that Owad has been gracious to put up and maintain this site, and we are allowed on it to speak.

I am not holding that Owad is god, But I am saying that we are guests on his site (read: House" and we need to act occordingly. I know that if you all had a forum, and have someone come on like some of the people we have on this site, come in and badmouthing your site and the people on it, you would get really ticked off.

I just think people need to more courteous to the site and the people on it. Remember, we are guests, and Owad is nice enough to put up with us.

I know exactly what you mean. I don't badmouth any of the admins or Tom Owad. Personally, I haven't seen too many threads where Tom Owad actually participates. I don't know if this is because he's busy with other things and has very little time to actually post in the forums, or if he and I just don't seem to share the same interests. I suppose what I'm saying is that I have absolutely no grounds on which to bad mouth, or speak negatively, of Tom Owad, the other admins, Applefritter, or its members.

If I'm involved in a thread that gets locked or closed, I never question the reasons for the closure. The reason I don't question the closure is really quite simple: I'm of the opinion that participation on Applefritter is a privilege and not a right. None of us have an inherent right to post on Applefritter or even to connect the computer that hosts the site.

If an admin issues me a suspension, I respect the decision of the admin and I honour the suspension. I don't attempt to sneak around with a second account, nor do I use proxies and such to mask my true identity. Like I said in a previous post, I have nothing to hide.

In the messages that I do post, I try to be careful in my word choices and sentence structures, so as not to offend. Of course, I can't be held responsible for any misinterpretations, nor can I be held accountable for the inherent inability to effectively communicate via the written word.

Other than that all that, I honestly think that you're slightly exagerating the slugfest that you're describing. Again, this is probably more to do with your interpretation of messages posted here, as opposed to any actual hostilities.

Just my opinion...

More like one of those crazy russian ones?

http://www.ifilm.com/player/mac.jsp?ifilmId=2667885&pg=default&skin=default&refsite=default&mediaSize=default&context=product&launchVal=1&data=

The crazy Russian gov't? Are you serious?

The Canadian government is a thousand times worse than the Russian government. Let's compare them, shall we?

Firstly, Russia does not have the wealth or blessings that Canada enjoys. Russia does not have the structure and social foundations that Canada enjoys. Russia does not have the opportunities that Canada has long enjoyed and squandered.

Russia? Crazy? Let's not be too quick to condemn the Russian government; they're doing the best they can with what they have. And, quite frankly, they haven't much to work with.

In contrast, look at the jokers that we have here in Canada. They're a bloody disgrace! They're corrupt self-serving liars that don't give a damn about anything or anyone other than themselves. They carry on like a bunch of wild hyenas. They spew such utterly obvious bullcrap on a daily -- nay, hourly basis. There's no way in heck a country like Canada should have such a retarded political system.

Look at the Canadian senate. What kind of bloody joke is that? Basically, you have a bunch of middle-aged losers that can't get a real job, that sit around and collect government salaries for doing virually nothing. Do they have the power to introduce legislation? Nope! Do they have the power to veto legislation? Nope! Are they elected by the Canadian people? Nope! Are they accountable to the Canadian people? Nope!

What the heck do they do? Explain to me just how these people deserve to receive salaries... I don't understand that nonsense at all! It seems to me that a three-year-old child devised the Canadian political system.

I have no respect for the Canadian government whatsoever.

On a bit of a tangent, last Friday was Remembrance day. You know, the day we celebrate in honour of the men and women that fought and died for our freedoms and values. I find it incredibly embarrasing that we as a people, still have to fight to retain the rights that had already been won by our forefathers. I'm insulted that the people denying us these basic rights, would be laying wreaths in honour of the fallen. I'm incredibly insulted as a Canadian, a free person, and a descendent of someone that actually fought the war for this country, at the total phoneyness displayed by our "loser" political leaders.

Id rather not open my mouth here but i just dont usually post in things that arent based on computers. i mean, maybe someone can make a new site forum for the talkative Fritter Critters. ill admit, every time i read a post that has to do with politics or somthing else im just lost, and i skip through a ton of it or just back up and look at something else. i check back at this site every 10 min most of the time, i enjoy talking to people, but i know nothing about anything except computers. ive been coming to this site LONG before i had a user name when i was alot younger and have loved it since the first day i found it. my opinion we should keep it just about computers or other electronic devices, hacks and electronic news. def not trying to tell someone off here at all, just saying what i would like to see thats all.

Anyone who can comprehend the inner workings of a computer or computer software has a mind very capable of wrapping itself around other difficult exercises like political and social philosophy if they so choose to spend the time, so it shouldn't be any surprise that on occassion participants on this site will fly off into tangents on more abstract topics. Control of the language is key, especially if you want people to hear what you're saying, so if we can remain civilized girls and boys, we can still engage with fisticuffs and slaughter, but in a polite fashion with dictionary at hand. There are much better words for confrontation in a place like this than the four letter brand. Hostility is just a reflection of a very vibrant life energy encouraged here. All you engineers know that energy, to be useful, requires harnessing. If you want to be hostile, consider yourself a hostility engineer. Design a system with your argument that will make your point of view roll before us in such a way that, while offending, will also make us applaud with the marvel of your construction. Engineers are artists. A good argument, even hostile, can be a major work of art too. This is an excellent site because it is both very informative and sometimes very entertaining as well.

And while I'm on the subject, like others on this thread, I'd also like to commend and thank Tom for creating this wonderful site. It is a very well designed site. Even the colors make for a comfortable setting. It has been a great aid in my recent wranglings with my pesky humming boxes. Hats off to you, Tom.

I also have to agree with coius. Things have gotten a little out of hand on the forums. I recently posted a forum about something completly off topic, but even so, I still got some really great suggestions. But, there was still one person who had to keep posting and slamming me for even creating the thead. So, I know what coius is talking about with the "hostility". I also think that this site is good for more than merely discussing our favorite computer. This is a place also for the gathering of friends to discuss the happenings of life. I do also thank Tom for giving us this place for the gathering of friends. I, too have been coming to this site for about five years. I check it a million times a day. I have gotten some really good advice from this site, both mac related and some not so mac related. I think some people could be a little nicer on the forums. I also hope that Tom doesn't get tired of us and kill the site.

AF has definitely become more hostile in the recent year. It's a big reason why I don't post much anymore. That and having since left my job at Apple, I have lost a great deal of interest in the whole community in general, but this decline has been greatly accelerated by the lack of a friendly and helpful community.

If you wouldn't do it in Tom's house, don't do it on his fora.

Cheers,

The Czar