Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

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I am trying to run a integer BASIC program on an Apple IIe, as the IIe will only be running this program I want to keep costs down as much as I can (basically I want to use the Apple IIe I have and a MP3 player that can play .WAV files and I know can load programs to the Apple fine).

So was wondering if it is possible to load interger BASIC from Applesoft BASIC using the tape port?

And if so does anyone have a .wav file in which I can do so?

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

That is hard-core. And a tough one. It's not a combination that was a natural occurrence: the first Apples had Integer built in, and were typically cassette based (i.e. nobody had a disk drive yet). Once the II+ got popular along with Applesoft, Disks were much more common and the need to "go back" to Integer was satisfied with the DOS "INT" command on the DOS disk. Or they had the ROM card that had the other language in ROM and you flipped a switch to get there. It just didn't happen that people needed to get to Integer via tape. I don't believe Apple ever supplied it that way.

Now, pulling in the Integer interpreter from tape is perfectly possible to do - I'm just not aware of it having been done. Again, it's a very unusual use case. It would be an easy and perhaps interesting thing to convert your Integer program to Applesoft, too.

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

GameOn wrote:

...I want to keep costs down as much as I can...

Use an emulator, for example AppleWin...

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

Haven't done it over tape. Have done it from Apples ROM card though

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

... Huh. You know, I would have thought this was an easier problem. AppleSoft was distributed on cassette and could be loaded into a plain Integer Basic II without a ROM card, but it doesn't look like Apple offered the reverse capability to II Plus owners. Which again seems a little odd given Apple sold the II Plus and II alongside one another for at least a year and there was a lot of tape software floating around back then for the II. Perhaps by the time the Plus came out only a minority of users were still using diskless machines?

Since a IIe has "language card" capability built in it *should* be simple enough in principle to design to write a tape-based program that loads a copy of Integer Basic ripped off a standard DOS disk and switches over to it, but, yeah, unless someone's done it already you might have to puzzle it out yourself.

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

GameOn,

I am curious,

Why do you want to use a .WAV file?
Do you currently have a connection set up between an MP3 Player and a IIe?
I would like to see (and I'm sure others would like to see)pictures of how you did it.
Have you considered finding and installing a ROM Card that has the Integer Basic ROM in Slot 0?

Steven Smile

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Steven (gsmcten)

"Apple ][.....It's ALIVE!!!!!"

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

Wouldn't Integer Basic reside in one general (static contagious)place in memory? If that is so, one could have it loaded, and then BSAVE it to cassette, thus having the copy, able to reload it on demand (despite the long loading time?) You too cheap to buy a $20 drive, or you doing it for the challenge? -take no offense, just curious?

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Tom Porter

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

The machine is used in an exhibition with over 100 other consoles and computers, so loading has to be simple. We run everything on original hardware as an emulator just doesnt look anywhere as close to a real machine on a CRT screen.

Unlike a lot of computers the Apple II does not have any cheap solid state replacement for the floppy drive. The Disk II (SD Floppy II) is probably the cheapest at $100 delivered. I have done this for one machine so it can run Prince of Persia but I want to see if I can use the tape interface so I can save money.

Floppy discs are not an option, even if I had one, getting a DOS 3.3 disc requires more work and unlike a number of the computers we use it is more of a pain to transfer data from a PC to the disc. Also the Apple II was nowhere near as popular in the UK so a disc drive is going to cost a lot more then $20.

The Apple IIe is hooked up via a Stero to Mono 3.5mm cable and I save to a laptop and transfer the file as a .wav to a Sandisk Clip+ and use Rockbox as it gives me more control over the file but it loads up applesoft BAISC files first time.

Applesoft BASIC is much slower then Integer BASIC so although I have attempted to convert the program to Applesoft basic, I can see it is painfully slow for the time being I might have to do this.

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

Quote:

so loading has to be simple

Loading via cassette interface believe me is much much more complicated that via FDD. I remember back in 80s when I saw for the first time a floppy drive with apple2 I was shocked! It was a major improvement over cassette tapes, where those who used them new how slow, sensitive to volume adjustment, cassette player's speed, etc. was usage of a tape recorder. You can prepare an image in an emulator with the diskette and I can save it and send you for free a diskette with that .dsk image via mail from EU...I guess that apart from the floppy disk drive you also have to buy a Disk II controller? Sorry, but a vintage exhibition where an Apple 2 is without a Disk II is simply not serious Wink You must be joking.

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

In ye olde days when you used cassette tapes, yes loading from tape was a pain on any computer. However with .wav files and an MP3 player I can save and load files perfectly all the time on two other computers. Lots of people seem to miss the point of I do not want to spend any extra money, when a perfectly good solution is available.

As for time, the few minutes to load up the program is not going to make much difference, we have a C64 with an SD2IEC interface and as it emulates the floppy drive speed perfectly it takes several minutes to load a program.

I am trying to move away from magnetic media just because in the long term it is a pain in the arse, most of the machines no one is going to see so it is going to make no difference if there is a disc drive attached or not.

As the program I am going to use was both a type in program and was originally on tape, it is going to be more authentic loading via the tape port anyway. Tongue

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

Applesoft I on tape was an interim step that went the way of the Dodo bird, once the Firmware card with Applesoft II was released. There was never any need for loading integer BASIC from tape, since people that had IIplus systems could get firmware or (later on) language cards.

Most Apple IIe's have built in language card capability. Once the language card and DOS became available, integer BASIC would be loaded automatically into the language card if DOS was asked to load an integer BASIC program. You need to figure out how to do this, without the benefit of DOS support.

Here's what I think needs to happen.

You need to make an audio tape image of integer BASIC. You could do this any number of ways, including using an emulator like Virtual II, which has cassette tape emulation.

Next is the trickiest part. Get into the Apple IIe's monitor and switch the language card on, leaving ROM monitor (F8) enabled. If you don't leave the monitor "ROM-F8" switched on, the system will hang. I'm not 100% sure how do do this, but I think a little research would show you which addresses on the "language card" need to be poked to do this. If it turns out that the hardware limitations of the IIe prevent this configuration, then you are stuck.

Once you figure this out, you should be able to load Integer BASIC into the Apple IIe's "language card" from the tape using the Monitor's read from tape command. After that, Control-B should get you into BASIC.

Note that I often use iPods instead of real cassette tapes or floppies, and I find it an easy, efficient way to load programs into Apple IIs that support tape input.

regards,
Mike Willegal

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Re: Integer BASIC on Apple IIe via tape?

GameOn wrote:

a perfectly good solution is available

But there is no ready made solution for what you want at all Wink

Quote:

it is going to be more authentic loading via the tape port anyway.

Yes, quite authentic - a wave player :)On my opinion a real FDD is much more authentic...

You have to do some low-level programming in order to achieve your goal.

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You Hacker, You!

I've been thinking deeply about your problem, and while I don't have a solution, I do have a question and a suggestion: Why are you trying to force a IIe to do something for which there was no Apple support? I can understand running your program on a Standard II with standard Integer BASIC in ROM, but this seems like you'll have to HACK the Integer interpreter, send it to tape from the Monitor (emulated, of course) and then hope everything that defines the variable space even works when sent to the physical IIe.

Though Woz himself would say, "Hack away, my friend!"

I would suggest first: MAKE LOVE TO DOS 3.3 and buy a friggin' disk drive. They're seriously like $25 with shipping. eBay. The seller may even have some disks to throw in for fun.

Or... play with LOADER.OBJ0 and INTBASIC in an emulated environment. (This is located on the DOS 3.3 System Master.) LOADER has some kind of conditional branch based on the native language in ROM. Then, I believe, it allocates memory (HIMEM & LOMEM) for program lines and the variable space. I'm not sure how it will load the IIe's Language Card, but if you disassemble LOADER, patch the instructions that load INTBASIC from DOS to load the INTBASIC binary from tape, you may have something. Of course, without DOS in memory, this could be a colossal disaster. Have fun!

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