Hardware Developement and special Topics

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speedyG's picture
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one of the main reasons I started to reactivate my apples is reasoned by the fact that i want to spend again more time with the computers and get back to the pleasure by playing with them....
In former days I spent quit a lot time not only on repairing the computers of the members of our local user group but also playing around with the availiable chips and developing interfaces to the apple-bus.

At the moment one of the ghosts spooking around in my mind is the point, that in the old days i didn´t buy a mocking board
but on the other hand today instead of getting one from ebay or somewhere else it schould be worth a little time to think about an alternative: since the days of the mocking board the market has developed lots of soundchips and the "half-aged" ones ( usually for example used on the 16 Bit soundcards from creative like the soundblaster or ESS like those on the MS-Tech ) are nowadays thrown to the waste because nearly nobody is running anymore WIN98 and

at the other point the drivers for that kind of cards are outdated due to the fact that lot of the companies didn´t make new drivers for XP...

on the other hand the docs availiable to those chips are quite good and it should not be to difficult to get the chips off the card and together with 2 Audio Amp Chips like TDA 2006 or 2010 or other alternate chips and some decoding chips to interface with the datalines and some adresslines should also be possible with not to much brainwork....

the other point ( that is a point viewed by watching the distribution of Rich Drehers CFFA Card ... ) there seem to be enough people out there to think about realizing small batch of PCBs ( say some 100 Cards or so ) ....
Last but not least the issues of the mocking board are in the meantime well known und in the meantime also the bugs around the IIGS and the problems from that hardware is also public and well known - so it should be possible to come around that issues and get something really great...

are there some other guys that have interest in starting up a speacial thread for developement of such soldering products ?

other ideas could be for example an Interface to control solarpanels ( including the need to follow the sun to ensure efficiency ) controlboard for home security alarm system or similar projects...

I´m curious on the replies to this thoughts...

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the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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gew
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello speedyG,

I would be interessted in two thing:

1. Apple //e keyboard interface for PS/2 keyboard. There are a couple of projects for the Apple ][ but not for the //e.

2. Card or converter to use a current VGA/DVI dispaly on a Apple ][.

PS: If there are working solutions a link would be appreciated.

cu
Georg

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cu
gew

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

gew wrote:

Hello speedyG,

I would be interessted in two thing:

1. Apple //e keyboard interface for PS/2 keyboard. There are a couple of projects for the Apple ][ but not for the //e.

2. Card or converter to use a current VGA/DVI display on a Apple ][.

PS: If there are working solutions a link would be appreciated.

cu
Georg

Here's a link to the Carte Blanche card for the Apple II and it has a VGA out. I believe there is another card out there but at the moment I'm not sure of a link. When I find one I'll post it. http://www.applelogic.org/CarteBlanche.html

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speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello all together,
first thanks for the link -that card is realy a "concorde" within the community of the hardware...
but respectfully my primary thought was not to make at the beginning of the forum a jump that high....first of all i intended to try and find out how many fellows are in the community that enjoyed making experiments with some at the beginning easy hardware, picking these people up and starting with some simple projects before launching a rocket to mars... and take the people along with us by stepping forward to more advanced projects that might be executed at home
with the own soldering iron and having some fun on the projects with usable output.....
the blanche card is in fact a nowadays computer plugged in an old computer and after all the apple only provides the keyboard to the cards and in fact the real computer on the card is running on Linux with a XVGA Display on the outside
and nearly nothing to do in assembler or applesoft Basic or Pascal except beeing some kind of stupid interface to the
card blanche..... I dont mind if some people immediatly startup at that level, but i do fear that as result to that
a lot of guys out there that might at the beginning might have some interest to join will be scared off the thread with this kind of "intro level" - the result won´t be a community of apple users interested in expanding their knowledge to hardware aspects but instead only a small "bunch of high-tec - engineers" - and thats for sure not the target i was aiming for.... probably it could be worth a discussion here in the thread to find out if i´m wrong with this opinion - but to my view that might be a good reason to open an thread of its own only adressing to the engineers.... in fact in the 80´s we had in our local user group 2 groups: 1 with engineering students and engineers on "high level" projects and one larger group with pupils, teachers and "normal users" with less experience that realized projects like builing own "home brew modems" and interfacing to robots or making a own "home brew laboratory for home electronics" in other words things that normal guys could build, if they get the information on technic and electronics provided by other members and together carry out task by task ( or step by step )....
the both projects named above ( keyboard converter and modern display-output can be realized with less than "rocket science" in a manor that other simple users can follow up... and there are in fact several solutions for the keyboard that would be able to realize rather fast without needing a degree as engineer....
probably it might be realy a good idea to make a second thread to high-level projects... if this seems to be realy good idea then lets do it... I´d just rather like to wait something like the next 2 weeks to watch the input in this thread before making next step to decide the future of the entire thread and i´d prefer to keep this decession open till to that point... of course I´m happy at least that after several days the thread gets alive...

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speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

So this thread has been opened 1 week and 4 days ago and only 2 posts.....
it seems that there is no possibility to get some hardware-guys together under one hood ( i.e. thread )....
in other words it seems more usefull to shut doen the dead dog ( this thread )....
i really thought among these many members there could be some members interested in raising some projects.....
probably wrong time - wrong place....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hi,

Though there is a limited market, if you come up with something unusual or interesting, people will show interest. The problem with the mockingboard idea is that people that really want them, are able find a real one or a reproduction.

I've been slowly developing a hobby/proto card that is intended for such projects. It is being designed to simplify interfacing to the Apple II. A couple of things I'm looking at providing is a VIA interface capability and a simple micro-controller interface. I am looking for other ideas. I would probably offer bare boards, as well as some fully developed project kits, once I fully develop this idea.

See my blog for some basic information.

http://www.willegal.net/blog/?cat=15

Regards,
Mike Willegal

speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

that seems to be correct...
i just first wanted to find out, if there is any interest at all..
how many show up interest and
next to find out which technical level is out there ( i.e. whats the level to make a basic intro...)
and then startup with some very sinple projects like a VIA Board or a simple Interface for the GS to pickup
the sound from the internal plugpins and put it to a simple "miniamplifier" ,
then proceeding to a real audio-card and then starting up with some measurement interface with
simple AD/DA interfacing and then continue with some kind of advanced projects...
but up to now - there has been only one replay for this kind of idea ...
of course there is probably some kind of use for an advanced thread to people with advanced knowledge equal to
engineers - but the main idea was to get some simple (hobby)people together ( say 5 to 10 people ) and just to startup very simple and to give interested people the possibility to enter with simple "hobby-level" ... and thereafter to proceed to more detailed knowledge of interfacing apples...
I´ll wait another 2 weeks and find out if more replies will end up here if not ...
the thread will be left as "dead dog"...

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speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

hello folks,
i decided to continue this thread and just watch the reactions coming up - and not to wait for any inquiries to projects. So the "first launch" in this place will be a page related to modification of the apple II series of the early apple II and apple II+ or IIeuroplus.
The first topic covers the tuning or say replacement of the common 4116 chips with 4164 chips with the result that the apple there after has 192kByte of accesable RAM !
In the "old days" there had been existing three kinds of this "modification" ( in fact only 2 because the one was only a translation of the english publication into german language and some additional kind of upgrade of the related software )

the first english version only offered the use of the additional RAM as RAMdisk under DOS.
the second german offered additional use within UCSD pascal and CPM.
The adressing of the banks were performed by using the annunciators of the gameport and therefor these two early modifications could cause some conflict with games that offered use of the paddlebuttons or the joystickbuttons.

But the third version is very rare and extraordinary due to the fact that instead of using the gameport for switching the RAM banks like the first two versions - this third version instead used three additional chips for adressing and the switches were located within the space normaly unused ( the cassete interface and unallocated area in the slot adressing space ) and therefor this third kind of modification permitted the entire usage of the additional RAM within regular programs ( offering 16 additional hires- / lores-pages for display ! ) and without any conflict with gaming software that accessed the paddles or the joystick !

the 192kB upgrade of the Apple II or II+
by replacing the 414 chips by 4164

chips

the first launch of the stuff is availiable at the link:

http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleIIupgrade196kB.htm

and the related texts of the modification instructions are availiable as pdf-files !

at the moment the german texts are not translated - but i will take some spare time within the next weeks to translate the stuff to english language and then i will add links to these english translations within that page !

At the moment a quite large part of my old software on the disks is not at my living-place but in an storage area and within the next weeks i will also search for the related disks and convert them to downloadable .dsk image format to make them accessable with ADT and ad the links to that disks too !

at the moment i´ll watch the thread just to find out if this kind of stuff might be interesting to the community...
sincerely yours speedyG

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speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

hello folks,
But the third version is very rare and extraordinary due to the fact that instead of using the gameport for switching the RAM banks like the first two versions - this third version instead used three additional chips for adressing and the switches were located within the space normaly unused ( the cassete interface and unallocated area in the slot adressing space ) and therefor this third kind of modification permitted the entire usage of the additional RAM within regular programs ( offering 16 additional hires- / lores-pages for display ! ) and without any conflict with gaming software that accessed the paddles or the joystick !
the first launch of the stuff is availiable at the link:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleIIupgrade196kB.htm
and the related texts of the modification instructions are availiable as pdf-files !

at the moment the german texts are not translated - but i will take some spare time within the next weeks to translate the stuff to english language and then i will add links to these english translations within that page !

sincerely yours speedyG

yep.... hello out there in the comunity...

as claimed in my last post

i´ve translated the entire publication of the german c´t magazin about the modification of apple II / II+ / II europlus and compatible from 48 kByte to 192 kByte in english language so that the desription of the most advanced modification by exchange of the 4116 chips to 4164 chips is now availiable to the entire community
i.e. also those that don´t have access to german language.
- so happy time with the reading of the english instruction download !
speedyG

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MarkO's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I am thinking about developing some Hardware for the Apple ][ too.. I will comment on the specific posts after "digesting" the content.

speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello Mark,
glad to see you here. At the moment I´m just completing a frequencycounter for up to 1.3 GHz with 2 inputs and additional functions like periodmeter, external oscilator input, relationcount between input A and input B and several other functions. Beside i intend to build up a simple AppleII clone for testing purposes - i.e. it is instead of the hightec-versions that i made with 192 kB only equipped with 64 kB but probably still rather high-tec because of the use of precesion-socket and selected chips and selected parts to make a very reliable version for "heavy duty". It´s then intended to be used for testing the developed cards.

In other spare time i´m spending some time on the analysis of the mockingboard Version D - the one with 2 6522 VIA´s and 2 AY 3 - 8910 soundchips. I just ordered 4 chips from Hong Kong for something about $ 20 Dollars and i guess that they might arive within the next 4 weeks here in germany.

After the redisign of the layout of the mockingboard ( similar to those distributed several months ago by a guy at ebay from taiwan and also rather similar to the one sold ealier by retro-computing the next point will be to analyze the possibility of adding the ability to get a inputport and outputport added for optional use in the IIGS - and "poppimg up" the former soundoutput to speakers from 2 Watt to the exchange ability by use of alternate chips that might deliver up to some 10 to 15 Watt per channel and - but i have to keep the limited power of the powersupply of the apple II series in mind ( that might probably be solved by adding a kind of "support-power-source-plug" with an external powerplug ( say something about 15 Volt and 2 Ampere)- but that of course has to be done in a way that also protects the computer itself from the external power...

and the additional ports should extend the ability of the IIGS to bring the 6 wavetables to a kind of bridge where i can select to bring all even wavetables to one channel and all odd wavetables to the other channel of a stereo-device.....

In very old days there was a famous chip from texas instruments availiable and it was often used in arcade machines - the 76477 or any of it´s "cousins" like the 76488 ( same like 76477 except that it had more powerfull outputamplifier integrated ) ... probably it might be interessting to integrate a socket for e upgrade with that chip although its obsolete and difficult to get....

or as alternative that might lead up to another second sound card because you could generate nearls every kind of sound from that chip from a helicpter to machinegun - to single shot or barking dog and tweeting birds... that chip was realy fascinating... i allready published the datasheet in my website with several applications at the pagelinks....
the basics of the chip:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/Modellbau/Sonderschaltungen1/Soundchip 76477.htm
the pdf-file to the published magazine posting:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/Modellbau/PDF/76477.pdf
the link the the pages with the experimental soundbox and the applications
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/Modellbau/Soundmodule/Soundchip 76477.htm
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/Modellbau/Soundmodule/thema0801020.htm
unfortunatly all that stuff was written by me in german language several years ago before i decided to start up pages with english language and therefor i must take somewhere in future some time to do the translation to english language.....

but at least one point is clear - there will be within the next 3 months several posts related to this topic and the target is also clear.... a card that might be used in the apple II series as well as in the IIGS and the option to define by switch the determined use to II-mode or IIGS-mode and the attempt to keep at least the compatibility such far that normal games will use the card like a normal mockingboard but with additional abilities that will go far beyond the AE Phasor and the Mockingboard and that will upgrade the general IIGS output to full stereo output with syntisizer-capabilities....and some kind of MIDI-support...

but of course thats quite a huge heap of demands to be solved...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I have not read through all the Posts in this thread, nor have I looked into all the Hardware currently available for the Apple ]['s but this is what I am thing of...

BTW, I am Electronics Technician, with lots of Programming Experience, working with Embedded Systems on Recreational Vehicles.. The Embedded Systems communicate with RS-485 and/or CAN between the Individual Device and some of the Device Interface to other Systems with RS-232, RS-485, and TTL Serial as well as Discrete Inputs and Outputs, Analog Inputs and I2C.

The Idea I am thinking of....
An Apple ][ to a ( Floppy/Hard )Disk Server...
Using something like the WIZ811MJ and a Small Microcontroller for a SAMBA (SMB) or NFS Networking system and Apple UI in ROM. The SMB or NFS would connect to a Server or PEER system, and Mount an Apple ][ Disk Image, and Make it appear to the Apple as a Locally Mounted Disk. A Micro SD Card could provide a Local Copy of the Disk Image, if Desired..

Background:
I am using ADPro, over RS-232 Serial to BackUp my Apple Disks, and Create New Apple Disk from Images downloaded from the Internet.

I have also seen the Apple II Ethernet Module from a2RetroSystems and the MicroDrive IDE Controller from ReactiveMicro.com, but they seem aimed at Accessing the Internet and the Compact Flash must be unmounted from the Apple ][ and Mounted on a PC with Windows, MAC or Linux to Transfer new Drive Images to it..

I want to be able to Setup a SMB or NFS Connection to another Machine over TCP/IP and then Invoke a Apple ][ Program from ROM to Select a Disk Image file, kind of like how ADP should do it, and then Boot that Disk Image. A Local Copy could be kept ( Cached )on a MicroSD Card, and then Transferred Back to the Disk Server, if desired, or Run Locally. With some Additional Effort and Programming, the Disk Server could support Sector Locking or Record Locking, to allow Multiple Apple ][ to Mount the Same Disk Image, maybe even use it for a Shared Game or Database. This would require a Rewrite to a lot of Software, because the Apple ][ was never envisioned as a File Sharing kind of computer...

speedyG's picture
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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello Mark,

just to explain my background:
in 1982 ro 1986 i studied in Germany electronic engineering at the university and finished with degree as Engineer for microprocessors.
From 1979 to 1987 i was the reference in our local user group to all hardware related topics and i covered all services in out group related to repair and maintainance of the apple-systems in our local user group with more than 360 members...
In later days i advanced in job to be a freelancer and specialist on very large scaled databases and different large customers and i was specialized to convert different company-platforms to new merged platforms or to integrate platforms from overtaken companies into existing other company-IT-platforms ( hard and software ). In that days i had also completed studies in different universities with degrees as mathmaticion, merchant and general management with degrees too. At thst days i also had all certifications on informix, oracle, mySQl, Postgres, linux and the ms-platforms ( i.e. MCSE and MCDBA and ADBA and so on... ).

Three years ago i gat crashed ( i.e. shut down from business ) by a severe second heartstroke and remain nowadays in a status to be too young to get retired but too sick to work in my old profesion.... so staying home with plenty time I started to slowly recativate all the hobbies that i had in earlier days - but couldn´t perform in my period as freelancer ( because in that period i had regular 60 to 70 hours per
week covered with job and therefor in those days my private life was kind of "truncated" ) and i didn´t have any time to spend for hobbies.

So within the last year i`ve reactivated all the apple´s from the cellar and i started up with learning /upgrading my knowledge to PICs and MCU´s. I built up myself right fromthe scetches and infos from the internet an entire Lab to the PICs and MCUs.

For example the entire Labstuff for the PICs including all PIC-Test-PCBs that are explained at:
http://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/test/index.htm
and for learning all the stuff about the Atmel-family i made the entire programm of all PCB´s published from
MyAVR Series of PCBs:
www.myAVR.com

So at the moment i am walking along two tasks:
one task is to archive all the stuff in my cellar including all disks ( some 2500 to 2800 disks ) and the paperware ( all user-magazines from 1977 to 1987 ) all computermagazines from that days as far as they are not already availiable in the internet..... and several books from those days....
and of course all instructions and manuals from those days related to the apple II series and their hardware and interfaces up till to the IIGS and the ZX81. For example i have to scan about 6000 pages of sourcecode of the UCSD System....
The paperworks alltogether might sum up to several tenthousends of pages to be scanned and converted to PDF´s....
so thats plenty stuff for the next years.... and it might be thereafter neccesary to update asimov not by uploads but rather by mailing them several DVD´s of contant ( my apple-archive already has passed the 55 GB mark on the harddisksystem of my fileserver-raidsystem).

the second task will be to create new hardware for the apple II series and integrating new technoöogy to the old apple´s with the aid of PIC´s or MCU´s.
But beside of this i intend also to punblish here in the thread links to different kinds of projects related to the apple II series.
for example i just added a few weeks ago the links to a page that contains the instructions how to upgrade an apple II from 48 kB to 192 kB and i translated the german instructions to english language....

so i aim for two targets within this thread: adding links to pages that contain projects that can be performed from pupils and students and links to projects with advanced technologies and projects adressing to students and engineers with the aim to develop together projects that expand the possibilities of the apple II series with now availiable hardware....

at the moment for example i just build up again a clone for testing-purposes, where i might test new cards... and beside i´ve collected all stuff about the different soundcards and the IIGS-soundcapabilities with the target to develop a new advanced soundcard that works without mods in both systems ( the old II+ / IIe an well as in the IIGS ) and that selects the working mode just by one switch and it shall keep compatibility that old software written for the IIGS and for the mockingboard runs at the card absolute compatible (i.e. the old software treats it like a mockingboard or the IIGS soundsystem
but besides of that capabilities advancing the IIGS ( if plugged in a IIGS ) internal soundsystem beyond the abilities of the AE Phasor... ( see postings above )....

The idea of a Diskserver/NAS ( i guess in your mind is something like the Western Digital NAS... ) as a kind of blackbox just with harddisk and interfacecard pluged in - that permits the entire thing to operate like a complete computer with the ability to act like a kind of ADT-Server and that offers link-options like SSC and TCIP would be a very nice project idea that we can take attempt to.
It would fit to the "upper-class" row of the task.

I guess that one point would be less difficult than explained in your post... the rewriting shouldn´t be that difficult due to the following options:
there is quite a lot of software within the appleshare system that delivers a neat platforn to go ahead from and it would require less effort to analyze that and modify it for the new purpose.... in the appleshare system there had already existed a kind of disk-server-system.... it was rather close related to the System 6 at the apple II series
- the real tricky thing will be, to get that working in 8-bit Prodos.systems....

and allthough the uthernet was generally designed to be used with internet access - the basic driver software would probably turn out to be usable also with a NAS

and the integration with the ADT - well that would be worth a discussion with david-schmidt who is member here in the AF-community...

and the ability to store the stuff local at a card that is designed to interact as networkingcard with the NAS and at the same time stores images local at the interfacecard for instant access should
not be that difficult too due to the fact that plenty stuff is availiable fron the community that is related to the IDS-Interface scene and that i have collected already.

The idea to use the WIZ811 will simplify the development too... and the price od $21 is realy affordable...

regards
speedyG

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

MarkO wrote:

... nor have I looked into all the Hardware currently available for the Apple ]['s ...

Ok, here's a short list of recent software and hardware things you need to look at, then:

A2SERVER lets you use your current-day computer (Mac/Windows/Linux/Solaris) as a file server, and network boot server, for Apple II client computers:
http://appleii.ivanx.com/a2server/

Apple Disk Server - moves whole disks to the Apple over an accelerated audio stream:
http://asciiexpress.net/diskserver/

CFFA3000 - USB and CF storage, including Disk II and SmartPort emulation:
http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php

Carte Blanche - FPGA-based board that allows existing and new Apple II cards to be recreated and used; based on the programmable Xilinx XC3S250E or 500E:
http://www.applelogic.org/CarteBlanche.html

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

( Sorry for the Delay in Posting... Other "life events" interceded.... )

speedyG wrote:

Hello Mark,

just to explain my background:
in 1982 ro 1986 i studied in Germany electronic engineering at the university and finished with degree as Engineer for microprocessors.
From 1979 to 1987 i was the reference in our local user group to all hardware related topics and i covered all services in out group related to repair and maintainance of the apple-systems in our local user group with more than 360 members...

I discovered the Apple ][+ in High School ( Secondary Education ) in JAN-1982. Bought my First Apple ][e in NOV-1983 and after Graduation High School, went to the Local Community College ( 2 Year Institution of Higher Learning ) in JAN-1985. I was studying Computer Science, which at this school was focused on the Local State Government, so I learned some COBOL, and IBM Batching Processing JCL, as well as Fortran, a little Pascal, 6502 Assembler, 'C', a little 80x86 Assembler and such....

Quote:

In later days i advanced in job to be a freelancer and specialist on very large scaled databases and different large customers and i was specialized to convert different company-platforms to new merged platforms or to integrate platforms from overtaken companies into existing other company-IT-platforms ( hard and software ). In that days i had also completed studies in different universities with degrees as mathmaticion, merchant and general management with degrees too. At thst days i also had all certifications on informix, oracle, mySQl, Postgres, linux and the ms-platforms ( i.e. MCSE and MCDBA and ADBA and so on... ).

After studying Computer Science for a while, and getting a degree, I move to Electronics for a year.... I had too much fun being a Computer Lab Tutor to get Serious with Graduating College... After a while, I knew I needed to move on, so I started working as a Programmer... Then as a Desk Top Technician, then as a Programmer, and then a COBOL Programmer, for Y2K, them moved to Embedded Programming..

Quote:

Three years ago i gat crashed ( i.e. shut down from business ) by a severe second heartstroke and remain nowadays in a status to be too young to get retired but too sick to work in my old profesion.... so staying home with plenty time I started to slowly recativate all the hobbies that i had in earlier days - but couldn´t perform in my period as freelancer ( because in that period i had regular 60 to 70 hours per
week covered with job and therefor in those days my private life was kind of "truncated" ) and i didn´t have any time to spend for hobbies.

I got laid off from my Job as a Electrical Technician, Embedded Programmer and Tech Support and Trouble-Shooter in NOV-2008, so I didn't do much for a year but look for a comparable Job, then Returned to a Different Community College, to work on an Engineering Transfer Degree.. I am looking at a 4 year Electrical Engineering Degree, with a focus on Robotics and Control Systems, basically what I do with Embedded Systems Programming where I was rehired in JUL-2010... Currently I am working Full Time, and have not returned to College yet, but would like to..

Quote:

So within the last year i`ve reactivated all the apple´s from the cellar and i started up with learning /upgrading my knowledge to PICs and MCU´s. I built up myself right fromthe scetches and infos from the internet an entire Lab to the PICs and MCUs.

I have been playing with Apple Win Emulator for the last 6 months, and thinking fondly of the Real Hardware I have in Storage, and ALL my Disks... Plus my Commodore SX-64, and ALL it's Disks, plus the C-64 and C-128 Disks and Computers I was given recently... So Two Months ago, I pulled my Old Apple ][e out of storage, and found the keyboard is real sticky and slow.. But I also bid on some Apple ][e hardware on ebay, and won some systems.. It has been fun transferring Disk Images from my IBM-PC Type system to the Apple ][e using ADTPro.....

Quote:

For example the entire Labstuff for the PICs including all PIC-Test-PCBs that are explained at:
http://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/test/index.htm
and for learning all the stuff about the Atmel-family i made the entire programm of all PCB´s published from
MyAVR Series of PCBs:
www.myAVR.com

I started working with PIC 18F8520's with the Vex Robotic System in AUG-2006. Then I used the 18F258 and 18F4580 for a Control System on an Underwater ROV, for a competition in 2010.. My first AVR Experience was with the Oregon State TekBots. I now have some Arduino Boards, plus some 32 ARM Cortex M-3 and M-4 Development Boards, one from Freescale ( M-4 ) and a handful from STMicroelectronics.

Quote:

So at the moment i am walking along two tasks:
one task is to archive all the stuff in my cellar including all disks ( some 2500 to 2800 disks ) and the paperware ( all user-magazines from 1977 to 1987 ) all computermagazines from that days as far as they are not already availiable in the internet..... and several books from those days....
and of course all instructions and manuals from those days related to the apple II series and their hardware and interfaces up till to the IIGS and the ZX81. For example i have to scan about 6000 pages of sourcecode of the UCSD System....
The paperworks alltogether might sum up to several tenthousends of pages to be scanned and converted to PDF´s....
so thats plenty stuff for the next years.... and it might be thereafter neccesary to update asimov not by uploads but rather by mailing them several DVD´s of contant ( my apple-archive already has passed the 55 GB mark on the harddisksystem of my fileserver-raidsystem).

That is Way More Apple stuff than I ever acquired!!! I "bow to you", oh Great Apple ][ Guru.... Thanks for Backing it up and sharing with all...

Quote:

the second task will be to create new hardware for the apple II series and integrating new technoöogy to the old apple´s with the aid of PIC´s or MCU´s.
But beside of this i intend also to punblish here in the thread links to different kinds of projects related to the apple II series.
for example i just added a few weeks ago the links to a page that contains the instructions how to upgrade an apple II from 48 kB to 192 kB and i translated the german instructions to english language....

That is great too.... A Comprehensive Repository of "new" hardware for the Apple ][ is a great benefit for everyone..

New Software might be a cool thing too.. I have almost 10 different versions of "ADVENTURE", AKA "Colossal Cave" ( e.g. "You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully." ) in 'C' Code.. Has anyone tried compiling it for the Apple ][, C-64 or Atari 400/800/1200??

Quote:

so i aim for two targets within this thread: adding links to pages that contain projects that can be performed from pupils and students and links to projects with advanced technologies and projects adressing to students and engineers with the aim to develop together projects that expand the possibilities of the apple II series with now availiable hardware....

I can see for someone wanting to do a Microcontroller Project, there is more "WOW FACTOR" in connecting a "Retro Computer" to a Modern Computer, rather than having a Arduino Project blink LEDs....

Quote:

at the moment for example i just build up again a clone for testing-purposes, where i might test new cards... and beside i´ve collected all stuff about the different soundcards and the IIGS-soundcapabilities with the target to develop a new advanced soundcard that works without mods in both systems ( the old II+ / IIe an well as in the IIGS ) and that selects the working mode just by one switch and it shall keep compatibility that old software written for the IIGS and for the mockingboard runs at the card absolute compatible (i.e. the old software treats it like a mockingboard or the IIGS soundsystem
but besides of that capabilities advancing the IIGS ( if plugged in a IIGS ) internal soundsystem beyond the abilities of the AE Phasor... ( see postings above )....

I never bought a MockingBoard, or an AE Phasor... This sounds like a very worthwhile project... Are you going to Open Source the Design, or just sell Boards, in some form at low cost??

I have a couple very "dodgy looking" Apple ][e, that I have been testing "Questionable Hardware" on.. If they "Smoke", there will not be very much of a loss...

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The idea of a Diskserver/NAS ( i guess in your mind is something like the Western Digital NAS... ) as a kind of blackbox just with harddisk and interfacecard pluged in - that permits the entire thing to operate like a complete computer with the ability to act like a kind of ADT-Server and that offers link-options like SSC and TCIP would be a very nice project idea that we can take attempt to.
It would fit to the "upper-class" row of the task.

A "Black Box" would work, but that would require a Web/FTP Client on the Black Box to acquire "new" disk Images, or need to have them Transferred from a Internet Capable system....

A "White Box" ( e.g. Windows 32/64, Linux 32/64 or BSD 32/64 system with SMB, or NFS ) would do as well for a Diskserver/NAS, and be able to acquire the "new" disk Images as well...

Quote:

I guess that one point would be less difficult than explained in your post... the rewriting shouldn´t be that difficult due to the following options:
there is quite a lot of software within the appleshare system that delivers a neat platforn to go ahead from and it would require less effort to analyze that and modify it for the new purpose.... in the appleshare system there had already existed a kind of disk-server-system.... it was rather close related to the System 6 at the apple II series
- the real tricky thing will be, to get that working in 8-bit Prodos.systems....

My last version of ProDOS was v1.1.1.. I moved on from Apple ][s at that time.. I have never worked with Apple ][ Appleshare system...

Most of my Disks are on Apple DOS 3.3.. I would want to mimic the Hardware at the Level of the Floppy Disk Controller, ( or Hard Disk Controller ) so the Diskserver/NAS would be totally Transparent to the Apple's OS. All the control of the Diskserver/NAS would run from a "ROM" copy on the Controller Card, Swapped into RAM, like the "Wildcard"..

The Wildcard, ( a Copy Card ) when activated, Swaps the lower 16K to the Extended Memory, so that it can Run its Code that was Stored in ROM, and then Swap it Back, when done..

I would envision the Diskserver/NAS Interface to work the same way, to "selective" Mount the Disk(s) or Hard Drives stored on the Diskserver/NAS system. It would run like a HyperVisor.. Beyond the Knowledge and Control of the Apple ][ Applications..

Quote:

and allthough the uthernet was generally designed to be used with internet access - the basic driver software would probably turn out to be usable also with a NAS

and the integration with the ADT - well that would be worth a discussion with david-schmidt who is member here in the AF-community...

I was wondering about the Uthernet... With the size of even, Simple Web Pages, and the Graphics they contain, having a Web Browser on the Apple ][ is more of a "Cool Trick", than a practical application..

IIRC, ADT supports the Uthernet for a simple File Transfers from a Server ( Win, Mac, Linus ), to write to a local Floppy Disk, and that I see as a Very Practical Use...

My thought was to extend that One Step further, and Not even need to load ADT, and Transfer the Floppy to a Local Disk, and Reboot to use the Application..

In Single User Mode, you just "lock" the Disk Image on the Server, Copy the Entire Disk to the Local Flash Buffer, and Boot the Disk from the Flash Buffer, Disk Writes would write to the Flash Buffer, and pass back through the Ethernet to the Disk Server.. The Apple ][ becomes a DiskLess Work Station.. For Multiple User Mode, you would need to enforce Sector or Record Level Locking..

If you did not mind a lot of Network Traffic, you could skip the Local Flash, and send the Writes back to the Server as they occur.. You would still need to have a Small Cache Buffer, so Network Congestion would not cause the Apple to Lag on Disk Writes..

And with Local Floppies Installed, you could still chose to do a Disk Copy, from a Disk, mounted on the Server, to a Local Floppy Disk.. And then Reboot to use the Application "off the Network"..... That would be just like making a Copy of the Master Disk ( stored on the NAS ) to another Floppy ( Which happens to be local in your Floppy Drive )

Quote:

and the ability to store the stuff local at a card that is designed to interact as networkingcard with the NAS and at the same time stores images local at the interfacecard for instant access should
not be that difficult too due to the fact that plenty stuff is availiable fron the community that is related to the IDS-Interface scene and that i have collected already.

The idea to use the WIZ811 will simplify the development too... and the price od $21 is realy affordable...

regards
speedyG

I think it is very Possible, and looks to be the next Level to attempt.... The WIZ811 ( or WIZ812 ) can handle the Ethernet and TCP/IP, the Microcontroller on the Card would need to handle the Transfer Protocols to the DiskServer/NAS ( Black Box or White Box [ or Either or Both ] ) as well as the Browsing and Selection of the Disk Images, and 6502 Code in ROM ( Flash ) would need to be for the UI for the Apple ][ Hypervisor to Interface to the Microcontroller, to Interface to the WIZ811, to Interface to the DiskServer/NAS....

( Now I will read david__schmidt's follow up post... )

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

david__schmidt wrote:
MarkO wrote:

... nor have I looked into all the Hardware currently available for the Apple ]['s ...

Ok, here's a short list of recent software and hardware things you need to look at, then:

Quote:

A2SERVER lets you use your current-day computer (Mac/Windows/Linux/Solaris) as a file server, and network boot server, for Apple II client computers:
http://appleii.ivanx.com/a2server/

Very Cool!!!! This is what I am thinking... But...

"Apple Workstation Card"..... Not seeing many of these on ebay, ( at least in the U.S.A )
"ProDOS 8 / 16"..... What about Apple DOS 3.2/3.2, UCSD Pascal, CP/M???

Quote:

Apple Disk Server - moves whole disks to the Apple over an accelerated audio stream:
http://asciiexpress.net/diskserver/

Very Cool, Too!!!! But...

Seems dependent on iPad.. Although Windows Browsers are Mentioned..
Seems Like the Audio Transfer Section of ADTPro.

Quote:

CFFA3000 - USB and CF storage, including Disk II and SmartPort emulation:
http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php

Very Cool, Also!!!! I will get One or Two of these... But...

It is Like a Solid State Hard Drive.... To add aditional "Disks", I would guess it must be Unmounted, and Mounted in a Internet Enabled, Host Computer...
ProDOS 8 and 16 support... Might or Might Not work with Glen Bredon's DOS.MASTER..

One of these, in conjunction with the Card I am Thinking of, would be a very Cool combination... Although I am thinking this Functionality could be added to the Card I am discussing..

Quote:

Carte Blanche - FPGA-based board that allows existing and new Apple II cards to be recreated and used; based on the programmable Xilinx XC3S250E or 500E:
http://www.applelogic.org/CarteBlanche.html

Mega Cool!!! This could be used for the Caching and Flash Storage, but also as a Z80 Emmulator Card ( CP/M Applications ) and even do the "Heavy Lifting" for a Full Featured Web Browser.... The Apple ][ would be like a Terminal, Keyboard, Mouse and Screen...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello Mark,
the point that i mentioned in topic of the chosen proDOS 8/16 was related to the restrictiones that DOS 3.3 and / or early ProDOS versions ( up till Version 1.1.1 ) have and that show up in similar limitations given at CPM and UCSD too...
All this Disk-Operation-Systems are limited to the adressing within the hardwarelevel of the Disks and therefor had conventions in the handling of the VTOC and FAT. The VTOC ( Volume Table of Contents ) that contained the Directory of the present files on Disk was limited to 96 entries due to the limited space in the amount of sectors of the disk that were availiable to the OS. And the FAT ( File Allocation Table ) was limited too... because of the missing ability to adress sectors beyond a specific limit ( sectors x tracks ). This limits were cracked by ProDOS 8/16 beyond 2.13 ( there were versions from 1.3 and 2.12 ... but they were still very "buggy", what also caused the very soon followup of this 7 (!) versions within less than 3 years .... ). So the real bugfree version was released with System 6.01 as a kind of upgrade from normal ProDOS ( that was related to the fact that in those days also the macintosh went to the stores and the very early macOS versions could be called "cousins" from System 6.01 - so these both had been designed to operate with harddisks and other large storage medias....

to pin the point to the wall: If you want to link the Apple II series ( anything between Apple II and Apple IIGS ) to a Fileserver the Apple must have some kind of ability to handle more than 96 filenames ( see above explanation of VTOC )and to handle more than 3 levels in the directory-structure....

so this is the crackpoint : UCSD has never upgraded beyond vers. 1.3 and neither UCSD nor CPM or very early ProDos versions were able to handle that. The "turn-around" occured when the OS-Systems went off from hardware-adressing and switched to virtual adressing with the use of pathnames ! So the moment the Apple hooks up to the Fileserver with a connection - it needs some kind of ability to do some "file-browsing" like the catalog-command - but without the limitations of the catalog-command - it must be more like a "web-browsing" ! --- so thats one pitfall related to the access of the server....

and the second real big pitfall is related to the appleII series themselves below the IIGS - i.e. those with a 6502 Processor .... at the one side each slot in the apple has a very limited window were you might access within that window the software on the card that was dropped in the eprom and a limited frame where to exchange the data from and back to the card - in the sense of a kind of "data-exchange-port". At least with the models with a 6502 CPU inside you´ll face the problem of limited hardware adressing and the urgent need for a "virtual-adressing-mode" to handle the program at the card in "inter-action" with the limited space of RAM in the Computer itself ( it will be wise to restict that to the space of the language card itself only - and that are only 16 kB !) and the slot itself only provides a window of 2 kB....and at the IIGS the small window of the slot remains with the same limitation....
so at least my guess to the attempt of the project would be first to get a scetch of a proposal with the link to the file-server and the apple and then making decessions which part of software or software-interface to locate at which point of the link ( Apple II Languagecard - slot - Interface card - hostinterface - hostcomputer ) .....
and that was the reason i proposed to examine first the apple-share system..... because that system solved large parts of those problems and it would be wise to keep close to that system - because it is already integrated in the system 6.01 with proper drivers ....
besides the wildcard would be an interesting kind of attempt ... but i fear that the problem would turn up, that it won´t solve the issue - the reason will be because the wild-card only can handle one single disk first - and it only can handle software up to 48 k second - and the code and use of the slot by the wild-card does not leave enough space to the slots to handle additional communication with a host will be the third issue.... all this issues have already been solved with apple-share...

__________________

In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

Hello Mark,

Hello....

As the Idiom goes, There is more than one way to skin a cat... Or connect a "clasic apple"..

Quote:

the point that i mentioned in topic of the chosen proDOS 8/16 was related to the restrictiones that DOS 3.3 and / or early ProDOS versions ( up till Version 1.1.1 ) have and that show up in similar limitations given at CPM and UCSD too...
All this Disk-Operation-Systems are limited to the adressing within the hardwarelevel of the Disks and therefor had conventions in the handling of the VTOC and FAT. The VTOC ( Volume Table of Contents ) that contained the Directory of the present files on Disk was limited to 96 entries due to the limited space in the amount of sectors of the disk that were availiable to the OS. And the FAT ( File Allocation Table ) was limited too... because of the missing ability to adress sectors beyond a specific limit ( sectors x tracks ). This limits were cracked by ProDOS 8/16 beyond 2.13 ( there were versions from 1.3 and 2.12 ... but they were still very "buggy", what also caused the very soon followup of this 7 (!) versions within less than 3 years .... ). So the real bugfree version was released with System 6.01 as a kind of upgrade from normal ProDOS ( that was related to the fact that in those days also the macintosh went to the stores and the very early macOS versions could be called "cousins" from System 6.01 - so these both had been designed to operate with harddisks and other large storage medias....

I concur with the Limitations of the Older OSs and the Improvements made in Later versions of ProDOS and System 6.01... An 8 Bit Apple is not the best device to Directly Connect to a Modern OS.....

Quote:

to pin the point to the wall: If you want to link the Apple II series ( anything between Apple II and Apple IIGS ) to a Fileserver the Apple must have some kind of ability to handle more than 96 filenames ( see above explanation of VTOC )and to handle more than 3 levels in the directory-structure....

Only IF, you want the Apple to read the Fileserver's Native Directory Structure... I was envisioning the Embedded Controller doing that, and presenting a Mounted Disk Image to the Apple. The Apple OS would need no Modification at all... Unless you wanted to support File/Record/Sector/Disk sharing.

Quote:

so this is the crackpoint : UCSD has never upgraded beyond vers. 1.3 and neither UCSD nor CPM or very early ProDos versions were able to handle that. The "turn-around" occured when the OS-Systems went off from hardware-adressing and switched to virtual adressing with the use of pathnames ! So the moment the Apple hooks up to the Fileserver with a connection - it needs some kind of ability to do some "file-browsing" like the catalog-command - but without the limitations of the catalog-command - it must be more like a "web-browsing" ! --- so thats one pitfall related to the access of the server....

Yes, the Embedded Layer would support the overhead of the File Browsing, using the Apple like a Terminal... Once a Disk Image was mounted as a Disk, the Embedded System would make that Remote, Mounted Disk Image, appear like a Floppy Disk in a Local Disk Drive.. The resident Apple OS, would never know the Difference....

Quote:

and the second real big pitfall is related to the appleII series themselves below the IIGS - i.e. those with a 6502 Processor .... at the one side each slot in the apple has a very limited window were you might access within that window the software on the card that was dropped in the eprom and a limited frame where to exchange the data from and back to the card - in the sense of a kind of "data-exchange-port". At least with the models with a 6502 CPU inside you´ll face the problem of limited hardware adressing and the urgent need for a "virtual-adressing-mode" to handle the program at the card in "inter-action" with the limited space of RAM in the Computer itself ( it will be wise to restict that to the space of the language card itself only - and that are only 16 kB !) and the slot itself only provides a window of 2 kB....and at the IIGS the small window of the slot remains with the same limitation....
so at least my guess to the attempt of the project would be first to get a scetch of a proposal with the link to the file-server and the apple and then making decessions which part of software or software-interface to locate at which point of the link ( Apple II Languagecard - slot - Interface card - hostinterface - hostcomputer ) .....

The small memory space allotted each Slot is Enough to setup a Boot Strap process, to allow the Card to Take Over the Apple ][ for a small Amount of Time.. The Language Card RAM or Additional RAM added to the Apple ][ would not even need to be used... A Microcontroller with 128Kb-256Kb of RAM would Suffice to keeping the Running Apple ][ Program while the Embedded System "connects" the Apple ][ to a Disk Image...

You previously mentioned an Article to Upgrade an Apple II from 48K to 192K ( which I have not located, yet )... IF the Embedded System has access to that additional RAM, it could easily Swap Out all the Lower 48Kb to run its own Native 6502 Based Control Program in that RAM. That Native Control Program would Communicate with the Embedded System, that Communicates with WIZ811, that Communicates with One or More Diskserver/NAS or even another Apple ][ with a similar Communication Card...

The more I think about this, the more this reminded me of the IBM 3270 PC. More on the "magic" of the PC 3270 Later...

Quote:

and that was the reason i proposed to examine first the apple-share system..... because that system solved large parts of those problems and it would be wise to keep close to that system - because it is already integrated in the system 6.01 with proper drivers ....

There is no reason, for support of Apple-Share enable OSs to be left out....

Quote:

besides the wildcard would be an interesting kind of attempt ... but i fear that the problem would turn up, that it won´t solve the issue - the reason will be because the wild-card only can handle one single disk first - and it only can handle software up to 48 k second - and the code and use of the slot by the wild-card does not leave enough space to the slots to handle additional communication with a host will be the third issue.... all this issues have already been solved with apple-share...

I mentioned the "Wildcard", because it uses a Boot Strap Process to Save the Lower 16Kb, to the Language Card, so its Program in ROM can be Copied Down and Run.. I would assume that the Wildcard contains a complete Apple OS to duplicate the Memory of the Language Card and the next 32Kb to the Floppy Disk..

The power of Microcontrollers has grown so much in the last 15-20 years, the results are almost scary..

This is an Image of a STMicroelectronics STM32F103RGT6 Discovery Kit Board < full size >.. It has a STM32F103RGT6 ARM Cortex-M3 with 1Mb of Flash and 96Kb of SRAM.

If just this Microcontroller was mounted to an Apple ][ Interface card, and connected to a WIZ812MJ, it Could store the lower 48Kb of the Apple ]['s Main Memory in its SRAM, and download a 6502 Control Program stored in its Flash Memory to the Apple ]['s Main Memory, and then use that program to communicate with Another Program, stored in the Cortex-M3's Flash and Executing on the ARM Processor, that could communicate with the WIZ812MJ and a Web Server or a Disk Server, or just another Computer with Ethernet and a TCP/IP Stack..

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I just ordered a couple of the WIZ812MJ.

I think that fact that the TX, RX and LINK are placed on Pins, will make it easier to Interface to an Embedded Processor and the Apple ][..

Does anyone know of a Source of Apple ][ Proto Boards, or the Gerber File for such Item, or The Layout files for making the Gerbers, that Make the Board, that Install in the Apple....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello Mark,
in recent times the german company Rademacher sold the PCB labeled as "Rademacher 942" and that card was very often used for prototyping. The problem is that the Card isn´t produced any more and only shows up very rarely at ebay. Unforttunatly about 2 or 3 months ago several such cards have been sold here in Germany and thereafter no further offers had been published. The company Rademacher still exist but don´t make the card anymore. I could send you a hires scan of an unused card if you like.
The last ebay auction with those cards was here:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Apple-II-3-Stueck-Experimentierkarten-Rademacher-942-Erweiterungskarten-/260878813919

besides i have seen in several other hardware projects another very common and likefull alternative:
Several companies still offer old prototypeboards for the old XT and AT PC´s! The developer just has to cut away several nothches from the connectero by cutting a small part away from the connector with a small saw to shorten it to 50pin connector size and probably cut off 2 or three lines from the top rows with a small saw to make it fit at the APPLE ....

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

Hello Mark,
in recent times the german company Rademacher sold the PCB labeled as "Rademacher 942" and that card was very often used for prototyping. The problem is that the Card isn´t produced any more and only shows up very rarely at ebay. Unforttunatly about 2 or 3 months ago several such cards have been sold here in Germany and thereafter no further offers had been published. The company Rademacher still exist but don´t make the card anymore. I could send you a hires scan of an unused card if you like.

Yes, please do.... apple AT markoverholser.com

Those look very nice!!!

Quote:

besides i have seen in several other hardware projects another very common and likefull alternative:
Several companies still offer old prototypeboards for the old XT and AT PC´s! The developer just has to cut away several nothches from the connectero by cutting a small part away from the connector with a small saw to shorten it to 50pin connector size and probably cut off 2 or three lines from the top rows with a small saw to make it fit at the APPLE ....

Right... I forgot that the Spacing of the Connector is very Close, if not Identical....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I just added a page in my Applebox with the closeup scans of that card and you can pickup the Photos in high-resolution by rightclick and save picture...:

the \"Rademacher 942\" exprimentalcard

http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/Rademacher942.htm

somewhere deep in my dungeons i still have the film for the ISA-Version of a similar card published in 1988 by the european magazine "elektor". I guess there is a good chance that i´ll find them too and mail them to you...
and: the spacing is absolute identical between ISA and Apple the ISA just has at each side 4 or 5 more connectionpads....

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

It's not all that hard to etch your own custom 2 sided card. Check this one out.

http://www.willegal.net/photo/repair/besttester.htm

Also...

I've done quite a bit of tweaking on my "super proto" card layout over the past several months and it's likely I'll make a run within the next several months.
http://www.willegal.net/blog/?cat=15

Regards,
Mike Willegal

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

In the meantime I´ve also found the films for the Prototype board based on the common used ISA boards and that i thereafter modified back to something like

a mix from Rademacher board and common ISA board:

http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxdownload.htm
there is a link to the page with high-res-pictures and to a PDF-file that prints on DIN A4 Paper in correct scale.

Another new point in that page is a link to another project published 1985 in the german magazine mc:

it´s a 68008 CPU card for the Apple II series

- and it´s rather simple to make the card as DIY-project.....
this card is a real hit, it works with regular CPM and it´s able to run native 68000 code ! There is just even the possibility to use the additional memory of memorycards plugged in the Apple II series. Allthough the texts are at the moment still in german language - i´ll handle it the same way as with the 192kB project.... i´ll translate within the next 2 months the entire text and make a english PDF-file and an english-reading-page of the entire text.....
and as soon as possible ( as soon as I find the stuff within my archives ) the software and codelisting for the use of the card will be added....

__________________

In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
the second part includes less friends but a lot more joy on life....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

I just added a page in my Applebox with the closeup scans of that card and you can pickup the Photos in high-resolution by rightclick and save picture...:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/Rademacher942.htm

somewhere deep in my dungeons i still have the film for the ISA-Version of a similar card published in 1988 by the european magazine "elektor". I guess there is a good chance that i´ll find them too and mail them to you...
and: the spacing is absolute identical between ISA and Apple the ISA just has at each side 4 or 5 more connectionpads....

Thank You... That is exactly the type of Board I was looking for...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Mike WIllegal wrote:

It's not all that hard to etch your own custom 2 sided card. Check this one out.

http://www.willegal.net/photo/repair/besttester.htm

Also...

I've done quite a bit of tweaking on my "super proto" card layout over the past several months and it's likely I'll make a run within the next several months.
http://www.willegal.net/blog/?cat=15

Regards,
Mike Willegal

How many do you make in a run?? What would you charge per board?? The "super proto" looks like a good place to start with the 74LS logic set...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

In the meantime I´ve also found the films for the Prototype board based on the common used ISA boards and that i thereafter modified back to something like a mix from Rademacher board and common ISA board:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxdownload.htm
there is a link to the page with high-res-pictures and to a PDF-file that prints on DIN A4 Paper in correct scale.

Another new point in that page is a link to another project published 1985 in the german magazine mc:

it´s a 68008 CPU card for the Apple II series
- and it´s rather simple to make the card as DIY-project.....
this card is a real hit, it works with regular CPM and it´s able to run native 68000 code ! There is just even the possibility to use the additional memory of memorycards plugged in the Apple II series. Allthough the texts are at the moment still in german language - i´ll handle it the same way as with the 192kB project.... i´ll translate within the next 2 months the entire text and make a english PDF-file and an english-reading-page of the entire text.....
and as soon as possible ( as soon as I find the stuff within my archives ) the software and codelisting for the use of the card will be added....

Thanks for the Pictures and PDF of the Proto Board Layouts...

The 68000 Project would be helpful too... I am looking forward to the Translation... Also, I have not located your Translation of the Apple ][, 192kB Project.. Can you provide a Link???

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I just added the translation within the page spotted somewhere above in the thread:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleIIupgrade196kB.htm
that page contains links to all 3 versions of modification....
....
and as explained in the text there the most advanced version of the modification which is also displaysd in the photos is the c´t version of the modification which was later translated by me... the link to the
english pdf was added in that page and the direct link to the translation is:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/Manuals/ct192kmodenglishtransl.pdf
...
as soon as i find the related disks to that project ( i had written some libraries of code for usage within UCSD pascal, CPM - and there with Aztac C, Fortran and Microsoft Basic - and of course the library for use with Applesoft - also swapping between 6 Hires-pages and so on ) they will be uploaded and linked in too....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I just received, via Fed Ex, straight from San Jose, California, two WIZ812MJ modules.. I selected the WIZ812MJ over the WIZ811MJ, because the J29 GND->RX_LED, J210 GND->TX_LED, J219 GND->LINK_LED are available to the Host Microcontroller..

In pursuing my Apple ][ Diskless Workstation idea, I am working on the following::

I am Currently Mounting the WIZ812MJ to a Radio-Shack 276-150 Proto-Board, with some DIP Socket Connectors.

For the Initial Testing I am using the STM32VL Discovery Board, mounted to a Radio-Shack 276-170 Proto-Board, with some SIP Socket Connectors. I have 4 of these boards, I bought them a couple years ago for $11.80 ( USD ), each..

I don't know how usable this STM32VL Discovery Board is, because it only has 8Kb of RAM and 128Kb of ROM (e.g. Flash). It might not be able to Establish and/or Maintain a Network Connection to a File Server... There might be other variations of the ST Discovery Board, like the STM32L Discovery Board that might be a better choice.. I have one that was specially made for the STM32 Design Challenge, that has 96Kb of RAM and 1Mb of ROM (e.g. Flash). This might be the level of Microcontroller needed for this task..

A Proto-Card in the Apple ][ will be needed to connect to the STM32VL Discovery Board, which is connected to the WIZ812MJ, and then the Network..

Also, I just received my monthly subscription to Elektor (North America Edition), which has an article on Pages 36-39, ".Net-MF for Electronics Engineers", using the WIZ812MJ for Internet Access ..

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello Mark,
the post was in one point amazing to me.... I didn´t know that elektor is now availiable in USA too....
i read that mag allreay since 1978 and realized lots of projects in that time related to different audio topics and several projects related to the computer branch... in the most time of that period the mag was limited to the european market due to the fact that the meinoffice is located close to the Netherlands/German border ... the editions in very first year only in Netherland Language and at the second or third year they started to publish in German Language too .... of course it was a big deal 2 or 3 years ago when elektor joined together with the circuit cellar magazine... so how long is the mag already availiable in the US ? The british version came into the market about in the late 80´s....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

Hello Mark,
the post was in one point amazing to me.... I didn´t know that elektor is now availiable in USA too....
i read that mag allreay since 1978 and realized lots of projects in that time related to different audio topics and several projects related to the computer branch... in the most time of that period the mag was limited to the european market due to the fact that the meinoffice is located close to the Netherlands/German border ... the editions in very first year only in Netherland Language and at the second or third year they started to publish in German Language too .... of course it was a big deal 2 or 3 years ago when elektor joined together with the circuit cellar magazine... so how long is the mag already availiable in the US ? The british version came into the market about in the late 80´s....

I have been subscribing for about 15 Months.. According to the Wikipedia Page, they announced entering the US/Canada Market in DEC-2009. The US/Canada Elektor Office is the Office for Circuit Cellar too...

I really appreciate Elektor, because it give a slightly different focus than the North American magazines like Nuts and Volts, Servo and Robot Magazine.. I also subscribe to Make Magazine.

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Then just 2 hints for the future:
each year the issue for July/August is a double-issue with more than 100 circuitplans and ideas -
it´s worth to be collected as a library for years and as a kind of archive... i´ve collected them for years and it´s even today a good startup for new projects and ideas and to be used in larger projects as pickup for partial solutions on parts of a problem....
and the second: at the end of the next years first quarter they allways publish a DVD with the collection of all issues of past year and that DVD is indexed very well for research on special solutions or topics... so each year i pick it up.... searching a specific thing works much faster on the DVD than at the single issues... and you get the topic served as PDF-File in complete and with links to corrections .... so up to your reply they entered the US market very soon after merging with the circuit cellar.... allready in the old apple-days in the nibble-magazin there was allways a section called "Garcie´s circuit cellar" where Garcia always introduced hardware projects for the apple series.... if i remember well it´s the same guy that afterwards separeted from nibble and besides started up with the circuit cellar magazin.... at the moment i´m still sorting out the stuff related to the sound-card like datasheets about related chips that i want to redesign new....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I just found another potential Device, the mbed with NXP-LPC1768.

It appears to be around $50.00 ( USD ), the company is actually based in the UK, so there is European Availability and a Text Book available soon.

This is more than a STMicrotronics Development board, but there is Ethernet directly available on it...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

I also found a very nice Reference Book at Apple2OnLine, called Apple Interfacing. Unfortunately is is Locked from Printing and is formatted 4 Book Pages per page, so it is real Hard to read...

I ordered a Used Copy through Amazon.com..... I should have it in a week or so...

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Nice book... its one of those that i bought in the beginning 80´s a reference in the shelf....
I guess your talking about the one from Jonathan A. Titus, ISBN 067221862-3
the more comprehessive one is from Charles J.Engelshere "Interfacing & Digital Experiments with your Apple"
ISBN 0-8306-1717-5, its good for the high school level as teaching intr with additional intro to basic electronic knowledge,
but my favorite is "Hardware Interfacing with the Apple II Plus" from John E. Uffenbeck,
ISBN 0-13-383844-7 because its for engineer level the best one .... it also includes the main parts of the related datasheets to and samplelines of code to access the related Interfaces and really nice projects...
it might be a good idea to get that one too....

I´m still waiting for a lot of ten pcs. PIC16F877A-I/P that i ordered 4 weeks ago from Hong Kong..... they should arrive within the next 2 or 3 weeks and i also ordered 4 times the AY-3-8910 ( the big ond in 40 pin DIP... )the first shipment was gone lost and the replacement should arrive in 3 or 4 weeks too and i´m still looking for some SSI 263A at an acceptable price ( 75 bucks per chip is too expensive to me ... ) and for the recording path i got rather cheap the ADC 0833 CN ( 4 pcs ) for stereorecording and mixing 2 stereo-channels.... and besides i´ve exrended my research to the TI chip SN 76489 sound chip and the SC-01 Speech chip from Votrax. the bread boeards are warmed up and ready for playing and the clone apple is ready and setup for playing the host for the experiments...

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

Nice book... its one of those that i bought in the beginning 80´s a reference in the shelf....
I guess your talking about the one from Jonathan A. Titus, ISBN 067221862-3
the more comprehessive one is from Charles J.Engelshere "Interfacing & Digital Experiments with your Apple"
ISBN 0-8306-1717-5, its good for the high school level as teaching intr with additional intro to basic electronic knowledge,
but my favorite is "Hardware Interfacing with the Apple II Plus" from John E. Uffenbeck,
ISBN 0-13-383844-7 because its for engineer level the best one .... it also includes the main parts of the related datasheets to and samplelines of code to access the related Interfaces and really nice projects...
it might be a good idea to get that one too....

Yes, the Jonathan A. Titus book...

It is ~$30.00 ( USD ) to ~$100.00 ( USD ) for "Hardware Interfacing with the Apple II Plus" on Amazon.com.. I will go ahead and order it.. I still want to get the mbed with NXP-LPC1768...

Quote:

I´m still waiting for a lot of ten pcs. PIC16F877A-I/P that i ordered 4 weeks ago from Hong Kong..... they should arrive within the next 2 or 3 weeks and i also ordered 4 times the AY-3-8910 ( the big ond in 40 pin DIP... )the first shipment was gone lost and the replacement should arrive in 3 or 4 weeks too and i´m still looking for some SSI 263A at an acceptable price ( 75 bucks per chip is too expensive to me ... ) and for the recording path i got rather cheap the ADC 0833 CN ( 4 pcs ) for stereorecording and mixing 2 stereo-channels.... and besides i´ve exrended my research to the TI chip SN 76489 sound chip and the SC-01 Speech chip from Votrax. the bread boeards are warmed up and ready for playing and the clone apple is ready and setup for playing the host for the experiments...

I can order PIC's direct from Microchip, and get them in 4-5 Days, straight from Thailand. I would have been looking for the Missing Order after a Week....

Are you going to Publish your Board Design for the Sound Card, or just sell the Un-Assembled and/or Assembled products????

A couple years. ago, I inherited a project that used the 16F877A in it.. Since I was using CAN bus for my project, that Pic was not a good fit. Luckily, Microchip has a "Pic for All Occasions"... We were able to substitute the 18F4580 for it... in fact if you are using 16F877A for PWM output, the 18F4580 has more channels.. We could have replaced the Two of the 16F877A with One of the 18F4580, if I wanted to Rewrite the PWM Setup Code. I did not have time, so Two of the 16F877A became Two of the 18F4580...

I still have One of the 16F877A and Two of the 18F4580, setting on my Desk....

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well up to the books - i´ve bought all 3 within the 80´s .... and back to the questions ...
the PIC´s were bought at ebay and traced by shipment no. and same was to the soundchips too ... they had been ordered from a source in USA and after a week there was no advance in the tracing records for more than another week which indicated the loss of the shipment ( if a shipment gets accepted at the acceptance facility but does not arrive at the sorting facility within one week - its the point to indicate that something went wrong ... ) so i asked the seller to checkout and make inquiry at the USPS system and instead start a replacement shipment...
in regular items bought in the US arrive within about 4 weeks after payment here in Germany so up to my experience there´s usually no reason to get up worried too soon... and items bought from Hong Kong and mailed with Hong Kong Post usually need up to 5 or 6 weeks to my place if they have to pass customs clearance too...

I bought more of the PICs due to the fact that i plan to use them for different purposes too.... i have bought several weeks ago from the elektor magazin the book "PIC Microcontroller -50 experimants for beginners and experienced users" from Bert van Dam....
another purpose will be to build up a regulation for a large industrial motor with 220 Volt and 7,5 Ampere to control precisely the rotation with limitation to some area between 1400 and 1410 rpm.... - but thats a project for a friend of mine....

and the soundcard... it will be a project that everybody can afterwards pickup as do-it-yourself-project...
similar to the 196kB upgrade it will be published with fotos, buildup at a prototypboard, circuitplans and probably also with published gerber files for giving away a order to etch the board from a company if someone likes to do that that.... i don´t want to make any comercial profit from that project....
but i do have the goal to make a mostly sophisticated design for two channels with soundchip or speechchip usage and on the same card a port for the IIGS connector to the ensonique-chip with stereo input and output including the capability of recording in high quality... and i want to try keeping it that far compatible that most common software availiable for the mocking-board will work with the card properly....

in fact as result of the differences between the IIGS and the IIe i must probably add somewhere on the Card a switch to chose if the card is running at an IIe without the use of the ensonique-port and related firmware or the use in a IIGS with the use of proper firmware and and the use of the ensonique-port.

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

I just added a page in my Applebox with the closeup scans of that card and you can pickup the Photos in high-resolution by rightclick and save picture...:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/Rademacher942.htm

somewhere deep in my dungeons i still have the film for the ISA-Version of a similar card published in 1988 by the european magazine "elektor". I guess there is a good chance that i´ll find them too and mail them to you...
and: the spacing is absolute identical between ISA and Apple the ISA just has at each side 4 or 5 more connectionpads....

!!!! IMPORTANT UPDATE !!!!


The german Company
Rademacher has relaunched again the famous prototypeboard for the IBM AT ISA Slots
!
the card is distributed by the german electronic supplier internet shop of CONRAD electronics !
the card is availiable for the amount of 23,95 Euro.
for details and measurement of the new issue please view the online order page.
CONRAD electronics is within Germany / Europe one of the largest and reliable internet suppliers for electronic engineers.
http://www.conrad.at/ce/de/product/527208/EXPERIMENTIERKARTE-953-HP-334-x-108-IBM/2512022&ref=list
as explained in an earlier posting this card is both-sided card and the Slotconnectors have the same spacing like the apple slot with just one difference: the AT.card has the additional connection to the small second 16bit ISA Connector of the former PC AT. so to make that card fit in the apple the small connector part of the front must be cut off entirely and from the large slot-connection some of the front slot-connections must be cut of with a fine saw too. And due to the fact that this card is really mighty ( 33,4 cm length and it is higher than normal apple-cards - 10,8 cm height -it must be shorted from 33,4 cm to about 25 cm and the 4 or 5 top rows must be cut off to fit in the apple.

allthough some handcraft is needed to use the card in an apple by sizing it down its one of the best cards for apple-prototyping...... I´ve allready immediatly ordered 10 of them to fill up my stock again....

In the meantime i´ve contacted the distributer Conrad-electronic and they replied that they only ship within the European Union. So it might be usefull that users in the USA link themselves together and organize a summary-order by using a contact-person ( an Old Guard from AF for example )within the EU for example in England and collect the orders and payment and get a collected shipment from there to the USA.

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

i have a idea to interfacing a super serial board to a xport tcp brige device thats under 40 dollars something like the xport serial to tcp converter (http://www.gridconnect.com/xportdpnc.html)that acts as a web server .
thxs kdhill
have a great day

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

In the meantime i´ve contacted the distributer Conrad-electronic and they replied that they only ship within the European Union. So it might be usefull that users in the USA link themselves together and organize a summary-order by using a contact-person ( an Old Guard from AF for example )within the EU for example in England and collect the orders and payment and get a collected shipment from there to the USA.

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

speedyG wrote:

Another new point in that page is a link to another project published 1985 in the german magazine mc:

it´s a 68008 CPU card for the Apple II series
- and it´s rather simple to make the card as DIY-project.....
this card is a real hit, it works with regular CPM and it´s able to run native 68000 code ! There is just even the possibility to use the additional memory of memorycards plugged in the Apple II series. Allthough the texts are at the moment still in german language - i´ll handle it the same way as with the 192kB project.... i´ll translate within the next 2 months the entire text and make a english PDF-file and an english-reading-page of the entire text.....
and as soon as possible ( as soon as I find the stuff within my archives ) the software and codelisting for the use of the card will be added....

at the moment i am translating the german instructions today and tommorow to english language and the translation should be completed till tommorow evening CET-time and uploaded as PDF-file ! so warmup the the lights to make a PCB and warm up the soldering irons! This 68008 card can be realized with an amount of less than $ 60,00 US Dollars !
you can allready take a view to the german circuitplan and the german pictures of the card and the partlist !

http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/MC68008pageGer.htm

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

It´s done !

the english translation of the pages is availiable at:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/MC68008page.htm

and the link to the PDF-File is added at the section within
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxdownload.htm

so enjoy it....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

hello AF-members,
as i anounced several days ago in another thread i´ve now scanned the documentpages of

the ElComp Slotrepeater

including the PCB-docs and layout and i´ve published it in my Applebox-pages at:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/slotrepeater.htm
so you can download the PDF-File from there and view the document.
As explained in earlier posting i suggest this to be the preliminary publishing that lead up to the development of the Mountain Expansion Box....

happy downloading and happy building...

speedyG

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Hello,

here a short story how to expand your IIGS with 4 MB really cheap for less than $ 50 ....

while waiting for the stuff from the mountainbox, i spent again some time with one of my IIGS computers,
and when i switched on the one i wanted to use, it turned out to have the normal 1MB expansioncard of the
mid 80´s. I examined my storage for a 4 MB card and found out, that all that cards were in use in other
IIGS´s. Next i examined in the web the possibility to buy a card.... it turned out that such a card at
ebay would sell at something about $200 or so.... and i continued my strawl along the lane in the web....

next i found a description how to modify a 1MB card to be used with 4 pieces of 1 MB SIMM modules and thereafter
i stumbled across the desription of the garberstreetcard from Briel computers.....
the card is not to expensive ( $49 ) but i´m living in Germany and a order in the US and mailing to Germany and
transportationfees together with customfees the card would add up to $80 to $90 and i would have to wait another 3 to 4 weeks....

I took a second view and compared the documents to both solutions and the pictures of the first solution
(adding the SIMMs on a 1 MB expansioncard ) were ( to my opinion ) rather poor . So i revisited the pages with the
Card from Briel computers and after a closer look it turned out to be rather simple to make such a card
"on the fly" by wiring a prototypcard. Having 2 old mainboards of 386/486 CPU computers in the cellar i decided to
use up a day with the soldering iron.

First i picked up an old 486 board pulled off the 1 MB SIMM modules and stored them in a antistatic-bag.
Next i picked up the hotairfan and gently extracted the 4 connectors for the SIMM-mudules and cleaned them from the solderinglead and put them besides on the table. Next i pulled off the shelf a 16 pin socket and
placed it to the heap at the table and went to town to a local electronic store and bought a 74 HCT 138 for
$2 and thereafter i just made a short visit at the local junkyard where the collection for recycling of
electronics is performed and i just pulled out an old 8 bit ISA card ( a old IBM scanner interfacecard )
from the heap and paid 50 cent.

Back home again i took the small saw and cutted off the goldplated ISA-slot-connector from that card and adding/leaving a border of 6 millimeters around the contacts and then i shortened
the ISA-connector to 22 contacts per side ( i.e. 44 contacts together ) and used a small file to make the connector fit correct centered in the memory-expansion slot of the IIGS.

Then i took a standard 10cm by 16cm standard experimental card and sized it down to be glued with two-component-glue
with the connector to fit in the IIGS memory expansion slot.

then i examined the heap on the table:

the modified experimantal-card with slotconnectionpads $2 together....
the 4 pcs. 1 MB modules dragged off from the old mainboard and the 4 pcs. moduleconnectors... no cost....
probably if bought at ebay or in a electronic-shop worth some $15 to $20 together....
the 16 pin-socket and the 74-HCT-138 chip together another $2.

Within the following 3 hours i carefully soldered the stuff together and - yippy yeah ! - the IIGS recognizes
4 MB instead of the former 1 MB.

I revised the steps and splitted it to a 6 step description and created a PDF-document from that afternoon-project:

the 1MB SIMM adaptor for IIGS a 4 MB card

( garberstreetcard soldered on experimental card )

You may view it and download the PDF from:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxIIGS4MBRAM.htm
and have some fun......
speedyG

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Speedy,

I really have to hand it to you.
You constantly reveal a wealth of information on how to accomplish things.
I for one welcome the instructions.

Steven Smile

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

hello together.....
just another afternoon with the pictures of earlier "soldering-iron-attacks" i now completed text and drawings...
the story:

how do I upgrade my powersupply from standard 65 Watt

( standard apple power supply )

to apowerbusting 200 Watt upgraded power-buster-powersupply


with less than $40 to $50 bucks
and never ever again get anoyed because my apple is loaded in every single slot and the system starts crashing or freezing....

http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/powersupply_upgrading.htm

enjoy it... share it ....

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics
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Thanks for the update Speedy! Smile

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Hello all together,
just another neat little handcraft-task for a saturdy afternoon.....
several of us old dinosaurs and old guards have plenty stuff in the shelves for spare.....
if among that stuff a old //e case is availiable or a //e with no chance to repair
and if also a old IIGS mainboard with ROM0 or ROM1 is in that heap of spares why not make
a //e to IIGS Upgrade by yourself ? Apple sold upgradekits in the mid 80´s when introducing the IIGS.
But with very few handcraft you can perform this upgrade with any ROM0 or ROM1 Board because the spare solderingpoints are on each board..... you just must desolder that points ( suck out the solderlead )
and the board is ready for that pupose.....
Just check out the description of the

//e to IIGS Upgrade

on this page:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxlIIe2IIGSupgrade.htm
and enjoy the story... and have fun....

and just besides,
i started to make

documentation on my small collection of apples that are all still in use

...
and some of them have remarkeble "goodies" inside....

the link to the entry of that pages:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/AppolecornerPage01.htm

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Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Speedy,

LOL And I thought I was bad! LOL Smile

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Steven (gsmcten)

"Apple ][.....It's ALIVE!!!!!"

magnusfalkirk's picture
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Joined: Feb 18 2007
Posts: 260
Re: Hardware Developement and special Topics

Here's a page from a guy in Australia, Mike Stephens aka PolyMorph on CSA2 and a few other Apple 2 groups, that also did his own IIe to IIGS upgrade: http://www.cirruscomms.com.au/~mike_stephens/apple2/IIe_to_IIgs/index.html

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