Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

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G'day everyone,
just scored myself a complete Apple IIe system.
It's an 83 model,
even though it's numbered 82,
as they didn't make them then,
so the Aussie early boards have the wrong date as I've found out on the web,
as they were all made in 83, with this wrong date.
Anyway back to the question.
I got an original mono chrome monitor which I'm not using, and I found a proper color screen, which are hard to find now days Down under. But when I booted it up all is working fine the controls all work, but the colors are wrong. I've tested a few different games, to see if it was one of them, and hooked up a little LCD TV to the apple itself, and the colors are fine. But as soon as I put it back with the apple monitor colors are wrong again.

I know this monitor has been in storage for maybe 20 years and the guy I bought it off tested it in January and reckoned all was working, and I be leave him as every thing works the brightness is fine the tint and the other controls work fine. but the colors are wrong.
I've also tried the switch on the mother board which is only found on Pal boards. And when its on mono I get color but wrong colors. then I switch the mother board switch to color and it comes out black and white. put the tv in and its round the other way with colors working fine.
To give you guys an Idea,
one game is Karateka.

Where the blue is supposed to be in the intro and the 1st level its red instead. and where the orange is meant to be, is green. but all the controls adjust and work like they would if the colors were right.
same thing with Zaxxon.
Where its blue, its red, and where its red its green.
hopefully I can get this working as the colors are quite annoying. and ugly.
I'm guessing its some battery or capacitor on the main board inside the monitor its self come loose, or old and failing.
but I don't know much about repairing these old monitors. so any help is appreciated. Puzzled

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
what kind of cable are you using for the colormonitor ?
Is it the RGB-Cable ( with 15 pins ) ?
And if it is that kind... - was it soldered by somebody ?
It sounds like just the wires inside have been connected wrong....
in that case the cable just should be corrected...

sincerely SpeedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
what kind of cable are you using for the colormonitor ?
Is it the RGB-Cable ( with 15 pins ) ?
And if it is that kind... - was it soldered by somebody ?
It sounds like just the wires inside have been connected wrong....
in that case the cable just should be corrected...

sincerely SpeedyG

G'day,
its the kind that runs an RCA plug only.
here's a photo.
its not mine personally.
but its this same model. to give an idea

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

G'day again, these are some real pic's of my real monitor.
against a working one.
as you can see the colors are shocking.
Shock


the two pics underneath are the way it should be looking


I wish I knew what's causing it, so I can fix it.
hope someone has an idea. Sad

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
so if its not the cable the next step will be to check systematically the possible issues.... and there are many of them - so lets start first with basics: please list the numers of the used PROMS/EPROMS ( Video ROM. MMU chip, IOU Chip, HAL-chip, CD ROM, EF ROM - i.e. 342-0275 the chips can be identified by the white printing on the mainboard close to the related chips .... )
and a picture of the mainboard in general overview and one in detail of the front half ( towards the keyboard ) would be the next step. Thereafter i can advice further points to check after i recognized which kind of mainboard and which kind of Firmware is present......
unfortunatly i am involved in the moving of my girlfriend tomorrow and on saturday so i only can reply in the late evening but on Sunday i´m complete day at home and we can interchange in short periods postings and proceed fast with diagnostics....and hopefully solve the issue...
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
so if its not the cable the next step will be to check systematically the possible issues.... and there are many of them - so lets start first with basics: please list the numers of the used PROMS/EPROMS ( Video ROM. MMU chip, IOU Chip, HAL-chip, CD ROM, EF ROM - i.e. 342-0275 the chips can be identified by the white printing on the mainboard close to the related chips .... )
and a picture of the mainboard in general overview and one in detail of the front half ( towards the keyboard ) would be the next step. Thereafter i can advice further points to check after i recognized which kind of mainboard and which kind of Firmware is present......
unfortunatly i am involved in the moving of my girlfriend tomorrow and on saturday so i only can reply in the late evening but on Sunday i´m complete day at home and we can interchange in short periods postings and proceed fast with diagnostics....and hopefully solve the issue...
sincerely speedyG

can it still be the motherboard if its working fine through other tvs.
cause it works fine through an old CRT TV of mine and through a 20cm LCD TV also.
or can it still be somthing on the main board causing the issue.
just let me know, and if needed still, I list all motherboard chips for you.
thanks for helping. Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,

as i explained in the last post there are several possible issues that might lead to the mistake:
1rst possibility: inconsistent ROMs ( i.e. mixing of US-NTSC with European PAL or
mixing of enhanced and unenhanced version... both can cause unpredictable results....
2nd possibility: bad timing ( i.e. using PAL chips on NTSC-Board or vice versa....
3rd possibility: bad chip or capacitor in the trace of the colorsignal.....
4rth possibility: bad influence of third party card to timing of the mainboard....

so you see the list has a multiple of choices... and i´d prefer to follow up the list above
because it is also the common order of more common issues to less common issues.....
the 4rth is rather rare so it would be the last to examine.... while 1rst is one of the most common sources of mistakes...

the one thing we can say at the moment is that it seems to be a kind of shifting in the timing of the signal...
some displays can handle that and display correct although there is a slight shift present and other display
can´t handle the slight shifting and startup with wrong display.....

If you for example take a IOU-chip from a NTSC Board and insert it in a PAL board ( as it could have occured
by a less skilled repair ) that could result to such mistake ( but recognize: thats a "can" not a "must" ! )

As far as there is no entire history of the board known - also no records of the repairs exist....
so that can´t be excluded....
sometimes a repair solved an issue and caused another issue without being recognized because that was not tested ....

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
if you want to
get by yourself further in understanding the topic, i recommend you to read in the meantime parts of the book from Jim Sather - Understanding the Apple IIe.pdf and downloading it from:

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Book/Jim%20Sather%20-%20Understanding%20the%20Apple%20IIe.pdf

there in the book your eyemark should concentrate to the following chapters and parts of the chapters:
Chapter 3
from 3-2 to 3-19

Chapter 7
specially 7-23
Chapter 8
color related 8-6 ff
and
8-21 ff
and
8-47 ff

as well as
10-10
and
G-2
amd
I-2
it anyhow should be a good idea to download the book and read it sometime entirely to better unterstand the IIe in depth..... and using that time will be well invested for the future of your Apple.....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,

as i explained in the last post there are several possible issues that might lead to the mistake:
1rst possibility: inconsistent ROMs ( i.e. mixing of US-NTSC with European PAL or
mixing of enhanced and unenhanced version... both can cause unpredictable results....
2nd possibility: bad timing ( i.e. using PAL chips on NTSC-Board or vice versa....
3rd possibility: bad chip or capacitor in the trace of the colorsignal.....
4rth possibility: bad influence of third party card to timing of the mainboard....

so you see the list has a multiple of choices... and i´d prefer to follow up the list above
because it is also the common order of more common issues to less common issues.....
the 4rth is rather rare so it would be the last to examine.... while 1rst is one of the most common sources of mistakes...

the one thing we can say at the moment is that it seems to be a kind of shifting in the timing of the signal...
some displays can handle that and display correct although there is a slight shift present and other display
can´t handle the slight shifting and startup with wrong display.....

If you for example take a IOU-chip from a NTSC Board and insert it in a PAL board ( as it could have occured
by a less skilled repair ) that could result to such mistake ( but recognize: thats a "can" not a "must" ! )

As far as there is no entire history of the board known - also no records of the repairs exist....
so that can´t be excluded....
sometimes a repair solved an issue and caused another issue without being recognized because that was not tested ....

sincerely speedyG

G'day, SpeedyG.
here's some nice clear shots of my motherboard, so you can see what's happening. their in HD so it might take a few seconds to load. Cool
also the link above doesn't seem to go anywere.







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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
just got up for coffee and then picking up the truck for the moving of my girlfriend today as explained in earlier posting.... Pictures are good and i´ll start immediatly with suggestiones on testing on sunday morning, because today after giving the truck back and arriving at home i will surely just drop into bed ( somewhere around 23:30.......
in the meantime you could probably just follow my advise and download the book...
if you hit the link it starts to load the book ( 130 MB ) into a page with adobereader....and that requires time depending to the speed of your connection....
probably you can just instead use the rightclick of the mouse and choose ( "save target to"-option) instead...
alternate if the link didn´t work you probably need to copy it manually to the adressline
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
just got up for coffee and then picking up the truck for the moving of my girlfriend today as explained in earlier posting.... Pictures are good and i´ll start immediatly with suggestiones on testing on sunday morning, because today after giving the truck back and arriving at home i will surely just drop into bed ( somewhere around 23:30.......
in the meantime you could probably just follow my advise and download the book...
if you hit the link it starts to load the book ( 130 MB ) into a page with adobereader....and that requires time depending to the speed of your connection....
probably you can just instead use the rightclick of the mouse and choose ( "save target to"-option) instead...
alternate if the link didn´t work you probably need to copy it manually to the adressline
sincerely speedyG

G'day SpeedyG
I tried the link you posted again and it leads to a blank page.
I've tried saving just the link and it only gets to 300 bites which is a split second and stops.
I think its been taken down. Sad

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
the link was direct to the book, but you might use instead the shorter link to the page

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/

choose Apple II Documentation Project from that list
then choose the directory Books....
then choose Jim Sather - Understanding the IIe.pdf
with the entire listings of availiable books and chose the book from the listing....
if you are using Adobe Reader 9 you will see at the right bottom the load-bar crawling upwards to 130 MB and then you can save the book with the adobe-command-bar or the disk-symbol to your harddisk after the book has been loaded entirely .....

Just besides.... the entry-link itself:

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/

takes you to a page that lists all availiable mirrosites with all complete Apple in the so called:
"Apple Web Ring"....

you probably could use several days to view all that contents ( documantation, manuals, books, Technotes, software,
and so on.... all links from that entrypage together amount up to several 80 to 90 Gigabytes....

Please excuse the misfits... i did not recognize till up to now that direct links don´t seem to work in every browser and every system....
sincerely yours
speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
the link was direct to the book, but you might use instead the shorter link to the page

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/

choose Apple II Documentation Project from that list
then choose the directory Books....
then choose Jim Sather - Understanding the IIe.pdf
with the entire listings of availiable books and chose the book from the listing....
if you are using Adobe Reader 9 you will see at the right bottom the load-bar crawling upwards to 130 MB and then you can save the book with the adobe-command-bar or the disk-symbol to your harddisk after the book has been loaded entirely .....

Just besides.... the entry-link itself:

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/

takes you to a page that lists all availiable mirrosites with all complete Apple in the so called:
"Apple Web Ring"....

you probably could use several days to view all that contents ( documantation, manuals, books, Technotes, software,
and so on.... all links from that entrypage together amount up to several 80 to 90 Gigabytes....

Please excuse the misfits... i did not recognize till up to now that direct links don´t seem to work in every browser and every system....
sincerely yours
speedyG

ok thanks, it's working now Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
as a result from this thread i am updating my site with a new page that will treat the correct chipsets......
it seems to be usefull for checking issues caused by wrong chipsets - but at the moment that page will be
"under construction" thrughout the next 2 days, because I´m creating it for all Apple II series computers
beginning from first versions of Apple II, II+, IIc and IIe as well as for the II GS.....
so table will change within the next 2 days and some parts may be corrected after revision of the tables....
tables will also change after updates and inserting information missing at the moment.....
I started first with the IIe in respect to this running thread......
but please bear in mind that also several remarks are still missing....
for example it seems undocumented but there seem to be 2 different versions of the HAL-chip and the IOU Chip
on the market.... one for the U.S. - NTSC Version and one set for the European - PAL Version....

and it takes quite a lot time to go along with my own archives, which exeeds more than 60 GB of documents
including all the tech-notes ( from Apple themselves ) and some 15 years of User-magazines from IAC ( International Apple Core ) and AUGE ( Apple User Group Europe ).... and thats quite time-eating....
nevertheless i will switch throughout today at least each hour once to this thread... add remarks and hints or comments
and besides answer questions...

the page with the tables are located at the moment at:
http://www.harrowalsh.de/Elektronik/APPLEBOX/appleboxChipsets.htm
and each version of computer gets dependent from its type a own vertical row listing a correct fitting set by the label-numbers.
sincerly speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
first of all there seems to be an unconsistant set of ROMs...
by the other chips the board identifies as US NTSC version....
( see the list in the tables mentioned above )
instead of the correct version 134-0133-A there is the 341-0160.....
- but by board-layout the board is european PAL-version...
in that case the ROM should be a 341-0161-A !
second and more important:
within the third picture at the right top edge ( from the mainboard pictures ) - and just besides that chip does not seem to be seated correct in the socket !
the 74S109 ( location on the mainboard at marking Row C column 11 ) isn´t a S-Type but instead a F-Type...
so it should be a good idea to change back that chip to a 74S109 !
Just for the reference: checkout page 60 out of the above mentioned book at the top right side just before the end of the 3,5M signal
which you probably remember from the text to be essential for the timing and base of the color-signal.
There is a rather good chance that the F-Type is too fast and causes the slight shifting which i mentioned.
It would be the first step when attempting to a solution.
Just another point:
Testing the colors with games is a common practice.... but it surely will be better to use instead the
"Apple Dealers Disk for the IIe" instead, because there are all colors dispülayed and adjusting them to the reference is surely a better solution.....
to get that disk as image for use with ADT take the mantioned basic link above,
choose landover.no-ip.com
choose applications
choose:
Apple Extended 80-Column Text - AppleColor Card Demo, The (19xx)(Apple)(Disk 1 of 2).dsk
or
Apple IIe Diagnostic v2.0 (19xx)(-).dsk
sincerely yours
speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
first of all there seems to be an unconsistant set of ROMs...
by the other chips the board identifies as US NTSC version....
( see the list in the tables mentioned above )
instead of the correct version 134-0133-A there is the 341-0160.....
- but by board-layout the board is european PAL-version...
in that case the ROM should be a 341-0161-A !
second and more important:
within the third picture at the right top edge ( from the mainboard pictures ) - and just besides that chip does not seem to be seated correct in the socket !
the 74S109 ( location on the mainboard at marking Row C column 11 ) isn´t a S-Type but instead a F-Type...
so it should be a good idea to change back that chip to a 74S109 !
Just for the reference: checkout page 60 out of the above mentioned book at the top right side just before the end of the 3,5M signal
which you probably remember from the text to be essential for the timing and base of the color-signal.
There is a rather good chance that the F-Type is too fast and causes the slight shifting which i mentioned.
It would be the first step when attempting to a solution.
Just another point:
Testing the colors with games is a common practice.... but it surely will be better to use instead the
"Apple Dealers Disk for the IIe" instead, because there are all colors dispülayed and adjusting them to the reference is surely a better solution.....
to get that disk as image for use with ADT take the mantioned basic link above,
choose landover.no-ip.com
choose applications
choose:
Apple Extended 80-Column Text - AppleColor Card Demo, The (19xx)(Apple)(Disk 1 of 2).dsk
or
Apple IIe Diagnostic v2.0 (19xx)(-).dsk
sincerely yours
speedyG

G'day again,
those are good points I would never have known. This F-type chip you refer to, to replace. You wouldn't know where to find one of these S-type chips these days so I can fix it.
cause I wouldn't really know.
thanks
again SpeedyG,
for taking the time to help me.
I really appreciate it. Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
well the 74S109 is rather common and not completely "out of date" so you should get it at a local electronic-dealer or a electronics shop - alternate most electronic-shops in the internet offer that chip and also at ebay you should be able to get it within a time of 1 or 2 weeks....
if you hunt at ebay please remember that some shops don´t set everything to an auction... so its a advice if you see a shop offering anyhow some 74Sxxx chips it might be a good idea to check out also the link to the shop itself and take a look there too....
otherwise take a look to google and make inquiry to electronics-supplier or electronics shop and large town next to you....
if there is a "old-fashioned" computer-repair-service locally availiable its worth a call too....
the chip should amount to not more than $3,00 U.S.Dollars....
If you know somebody who is able to program eproms it would also be a good idea to pick the correct ROM-image and to get a 2764 eprom and get that programmed with the correct version 341-0161-A.
To get the image of that eprom go to:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/
choose:
Apple II Documentation Project
choose:
Computers
choose:
Apple II
choose:
Apple IIe
choose:
ROM Images
choose:
Apple IIe Video ROM - 341-0161-A - US-DE 1982.bin 8.0K
save image to disk.
another remark:
in the 4th picture - bottom - middle .... there are 2 trimming resistors marked as R63 and R64.
in the mentioned book this corelates to the circuitplan at page 224 - center - and they are marked to V_Bal and U_Bal ( volt balance and current balance ) and both have effect to the color-burst signal and also the ceramic trim marked as C112 in the same page below the TCA650 chip also has influence to the color-time-base - but if you attempt this trimmers you must mark the initial position somehow with a markerpen - and the capacitor-trimmer may only be moved with a plastic-adjustment-screwdriver because metal affects the adjustment !

sincerely yours speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

G'day again, Speedy G
I've been looking around every ware for the 74s109dc chip and no one stocks it anymore.
would you know ware to go these days to hunt one down. As ebay and online stores, and my local electronics store's don't have them. as there coming up out of print.
any help to find one would be a big help. also do I have to also replace my Eprom chip with a 2764 version ? or just reprogram it ?.
thanks again Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
to give advice for source of 74S109 i´d have to know in which country you live....
yes you can reprogram the 2764 if you have a correct source of ultraviolett light for erasing the eprom.....
don´t try it with the sun .... that´s waisting time.... you would need several days.....
usually in elecronic supply shops there are special lightbulbs availiable for that task...
they perform the job within 20 to 35 minutes.....
and of course you would need to have a programmer for eproms together with the software that can do the job with the 2764...
as soon as i know where you live i can give advice for source of the chip....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza,
to give advice for source of 74S109 i´d have to know in which country you live....
yes you can reprogram the 2764 if you have a correct source of ultraviolett light for erasing the eprom.....
don´t try it with the sun .... that´s waisting time.... you would need several days.....
usually in elecronic supply shops there are special lightbulbs availiable for that task...
they perform the job within 20 to 35 minutes.....
and of course you would need to have a programmer for eproms together with the software that can do the job with the 2764...
as soon as i know where you live i can give advice for source of the chip....
sincerely speedyG

G'day,
I've Sent you a Private Message.
thanks again Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

G'day, SpeedyG,
I got the 74S109 chip sent out but its got PC at the end of the number instead of DC, are these chips the same or totally different. as I think the guy from the UK I found might have mixed the order up.
let me know what you think.

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
i guess it will be O.K. But to make it sure because there are different kinds of cases availiable i mailed that shop ( little diode offer at ebay ) the following question ( i assume that´s the offer you are talking about ... ) :
"Is this chip in 16pin DIP-case or what kind of package ?? If you don´t issue picture you should at least give precise information !"
lets wait for the answer to be sure.....

If the Answer from the seller is yes the offer will be O.K. for you.

besides little-diode is one of the largest distributors for IC´s in Great Britian and USA. So what i can say is:
i have ordered seveal times from them, and they are reliable and rather fast in handling orders... ( shipments left the shop within 3 days after payment.... the rest of the time was in the responsibility of transport.....
and the price would also be O.K. due to the fact that chips from the 74Sxxx series are obsolete instead of the regular chips from the LS series... this is also indicated by the letter where S = Shottky only and normal speed ( but nowadays obsolete ) and LS = Low Power Schottky at normal speed ( but due to Low Power probably a weaker output ) and F is for extrem fast.

for further info read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7400_series
and there the paragraph:
7400 series derivative families
and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
in the meantime the dealer answered the question.
The case is DIL which is same as DIP.
DIL = Dual In Line package = DIP = Dual Inline Package

so it´s O.K. to order.

due to the fact that the chip is obsolete - it might be a good idea to order 2 of them ( one as spare.... it won´t get easier in the future to get that chip again... )

sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

g'day again, speedyg.
been away for a week at my sisters house, just got back home before.
I've installed the new chip all fits fine.
but when booted up, the colors are still the same wrong colors.
what should be the next step to do.
thanks
again for your help. Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
well if the 74S109 is not resulting the trouble we´re back to the posting #14 and #16 .....
did you also check the inconsistancy of the Video ROM ( on the Board is: 342-0160 A while by list the european PAL version should contain the 342-0161 A...... )
and to the second part related to the 2 trimmers R63 and R64 and the capacitor C112 .....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

G'day speedyg
I've just noticed something weird.
I noticed the switch on the motherboard that's used to control the color is round the wrong way.
I've noticed that it had been set to mono on the board and I'm getting weird colors which should be B&W when switched to mono.
but then when switched to color on the Board.
every thing works but the colors B&W.
then put my lcd monitor into it and all works fine.
the mono's mono
and the colors color.
strange Puzzled

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza,
you have mentioned this in a posting above and i kept this in mind... the reason for that might be that there was a wrong kind of switch used ( possibly as replacemant for a repair ? ) - but finnaly i left that beside because you mentioned that the colors are wrong when colors are displayed....
so the question is:
are the colors still in wrong order or not ?
If that is so, the switch should not be the problem and the issue will rather more be a problen in shifted timing at the generation of the colorsignal....
( see the chapters at the book mentioned above.... you must recognize that the video signal is a "added sum" of different sources ( colorinformation is generated by "shifting" with a time delay the colors and then adding them back to the carriersignal ) .....
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

G'day,
yes that's whats happening which I didn't realize till earlier. I thought that it was on color, when It's been on mono, as the weird colors were coming through, and I thought it was on color.
but then today I had a closer look and its been on mono the whole time with the weird colors coming through. then when I flicked the switch to color it was black and white.
but through a modern tv it clears up.
so dose that mean where getting closer to solving this, now we know more of whats happening Puzzled

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Bazza, its just as explained above.... we don´t have to bother it... unless the switch itself would be bad....
but judging the pictures at the beginning of the thread it´s not our problem.... so we have to continue as explained in the last posting and checking the adjustments of the resistors and the capacitor as explained above and at the ealier postings st #14 and #16. if that also does not solve the problem we would nedd to proceed ahead to the following step... first i would start with the correct eprom.... and then the capacitor and finally the trimming of the resistors. then give feedback if the problem is solved or not... if not i´ll explain next step...
sincerely speedyG

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza, its just as explained above.... we don´t have to bother it... unless the switch itself would be bad....
but judging the pictures at the beginning of the thread it´s not our problem.... so we have to continue as explained in the last posting and checking the adjustments of the resistors and the capacitor as explained above and at the ealier postings st #14 and #16. if that also does not solve the problem we would nedd to proceed ahead to the following step... first i would start with the correct eprom.... and then the capacitor and finally the trimming of the resistors. then give feedback if the problem is solved or not... if not i´ll explain next step...
sincerely speedyG

G'day Speedyg,
I've been busy for awile with other things.
and thought I'd try to solve this problem once and for all if I can, as I've got some more time to work on it.
I've done everything now except for the re programing of the eprom. which I've never done before, so I'd need step by step help to reprogram. if you can I'd be grate full.
so this can finally be fixed once and for all. Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Bazza wrote:
speedyG wrote:

Hello Bazza, its just as explained above.... we don´t have to bother it... unless the switch itself would be bad....
but judging the pictures at the beginning of the thread it´s not our problem.... so we have to continue as explained in the last posting and checking the adjustments of the resistors and the capacitor as explained above and at the ealier postings st #14 and #16. if that also does not solve the problem we would nedd to proceed ahead to the following step... first i would start with the correct eprom.... and then the capacitor and finally the trimming of the resistors. then give feedback if the problem is solved or not... if not i´ll explain next step...
sincerely speedyG

G'day Speedyg,
I've been busy for awile with other things.
and thought I'd try to solve this problem once and for all if I can, as I've got some more time to work on it.
I've done everything now except for the re programing of the eprom. which I've never done before, so I'd need step by step help to reprogram. if you can I'd be grate full.
so this can finally be fixed once and for all. Cool

G'day again Speedyg not sure if you've seen this new post or not just bumping it up so you might notice.
I'm still on my summer vacation time as down here Christmas is a very hot summer. was 43 degree's_C the other day, so lucky I've got Air Conditioning Cool Mac or most of my computers would be
fried Shock.
thanks again. Cool

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Re: Weird colors on composite monitor IIe Pal ver. help ?

Hello Baza,

well throughout the last days i have been caught up with tasks releted to the Apple 1 cards
i have developed ( as explained in another thread ) and with the development of a sound- and
speechcard for the Apple II series ( also in another thread ). So now after the first order
for testboards went out and i´m at the moment bending a LEXAN-board to get a transparent case
for a MIMEO from Mike Willegal, i reviewed the entire thread to remind the isues and steps
we have solved yet....

one question not realy solved with reply is:
which standard of TV-Sets is commen in Australia ?
the NTSC standard like in the USA or the PAL-standard like used in the UK and Europe ?

This question has become immportant again because in the posting No.16 at the 3rd picture
from above in the top center left from the 74F109 ( which should now after change be 74S109 )
the one HAL-Chip is labeled on the Mainboard to be a PAL HAL with the No. 341-0170-A:

This would indicate that the Mainboard is not a NTSC-Version like in the USA but instead a
European Version with PAL-Standard like sold in UK and Germany..... - this is confirmed by
the company label close to the powerplug ( 6th picture ).

So with this indicators the Mainboard should display the colors correct if it´s connected to
a TV-Set or a Monitor that also operates with the PAL-Standard. If the Monitor is NTSC-Standard
the display should not work correct.

If the Monitor or TV-Set is PAL and the colors don´t work correct then the next possible
reason for that could be as guessed the inconsistance of the Video ROM.
In that case the Video ROM should carry the Number 341-0161-A instead of the 341-160-A as
displayed in the 2nd picture.

Instead of erasing the Eprom with ultraviolett light and reprogramming it is a better
recommendation to just get another 2764 Eprom and get that programmed with the correct data
loaded from:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple II Documentation Project/
selecting:
Computers
selecting:
Apple II
selecting:
Apple IIe
selecting:
ROM Images
selecting:
Apple IIe Video ROM - 341-0161-A - US-DE 1982.bin 8.0K
and saving that file to disk for use with the Eprom programmer.
By that way you keep at least the wrong Eprom on the shelf as spare if something goes wrong....

Also the switch is really looking very bad as mentioned earlier.... but by the labeling of
that switch with on towards the Mono-Option and Off towards the color-Option is normal and
correct. Probably desoldering that switch from the bottow and removing all of the solder
from the leads of that switch and cleaning it very carefully with Isopropanol-alcohol and
then operating the switch very often to remove inside oxidation and then drying that switch
very carefully and taking proof of clean operation by testing it with a multimeter and if
it operates clean again - reinserting and soldering it back again in the mainboard will be
a good idea.

As mentioned above in earlier posting it´s recommended to better use the regular testing software
for the color adjustments instead of the games....:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/landover.no-ip.com/
select:
Applications
select:
[VID] Apple IIe Diagnostic v2.1 (19xx)(-).dsk 140K
and:
Apple Extended 80-Column Text - AppleColor Card Demo, The (19xx)(Apple)(Disk 1 of 2).dsk
and:
Apple Extended 80-Column Text - AppleColor Card Demo, The (19xx)(Apple)(Disk 2 of 2).dsk 140K
save to Harddisk and generate Disk as explained with ADTpro at:
http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/
and reading previously the pages linked at the left side about
connections. bootstrapping, operations ....

if you are at thet stage give feedback and further hints and explaénations will be given....

sincerely speedyG

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In early days I had a lot of money but no time - now I have no money but a lot of time....
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