PEX Revisited Part III

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67

This is the new thread for the PowerExpress prototype motherboard, which follows on from this previous thread:
http://www.applefritter.com/node/23138

It has arrived safely in England, after a journey from the USA, and I'll be setting it up next week to start experimenting with it.

James.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
It's working...

Hi everyone,

I've loaded the PEX motherboard into a 9600 case and checked it still works, by adding a G4 400Mhz CPU card and a Radeon 9200 PCI.

I can get the chime - so I now know the board is still functioning after it's long journey.

Can't get the video to display, as don't have a VGA compatible monitor to test. Waiting on a serial cable to connect up it's serial output to another mac.

James.

iamdigitalman's picture
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Joined: Mar 2 2004
Posts: 629
older video card?

I was wondering if maybe it's not putting out video because the card is too new? try something a bit older, a bit more period.

If you need it, I have a older video card with a mac video connector on it. It was one from a B&W, the rare edu version. I also have a Rage 128 that might work.

-digital Wink

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
good idea...

Hi digital,

Good idea and thanks for the offer. I have some older vid cards to try, so will give that a go.

So far I have successfully got open firmware to display on another mac, via a serial cable link and ZTerm.

I've installed 10.3 and xpostfacto to a SCSI HD and a ATA HD attached to an Acard PCI ATA card but have not got these boot - as the devices can't be opened.

I've also tried to locate the nvram patches that powersurge9600 had on his website - but this has recently started disappearing from GeoCities where it's hosted.

Does anyone have a copy of these nvram patches text files saved?

Thanks,

James.

Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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Joined: Jan 20 2005
Posts: 1434
Don't know what you've got till it's gone!

Ouch! Where did his website go? We've been taking him for granted. The only email address I've got for him is the one hosted by his website. Funny, his website has been up all these years and suddenly it's down, coincidentally, exactly at the same time as two significant events: my selling the PEX, and the international financial crisis. Hmmm. What to make of it?

Unfortunately, I didn't save any copies of the patches during my recent attempts, but in my archives I've got three documents which may have patches. One document I labeled "Patch 2 short" which reads out:

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > set-defaults ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? false ok
0 > setenv use-nvramrc? true ok
0 > setenv load-base 600000 ok
0 > setenv diag-device ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > nvedit
ok
0 > nvstore ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > reset-all no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? true ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed

****And then I've got another document that I labeled "NVRAM success":

hex

: $D find-device ;

: $E device-end ;

: $L BLpatch ; : $R BRpatch ;

: $X execute ;

: $p 0 to my-self property ;

: $a " /chosen" $D $p $E ;

: helpb " scsi" find-device 0 to my-self

d# 5300 encode-int " AAPL,load-priority" property

unselect-dev ;

10 buffer: km

dev kbd

get-key-map km swap move

$E

: ck 0 do swap dup 3 >> km + c@ 1 rot 7 and << and or loop ;

: bootr 0d word count encode-string " machargs" $a

0 0 1 ck if 0 and else f 3d 0 2 ck if 40 or then then

if bye else helpb 1e 0 do ['] boot catch drop 1f4 ms loop then bye ;

: myboot boot-command eval ;

dev /packages/mac-parts

: $M 7F00 - 4 ;

' my-init-program 34 + ' $M $L

' load-partition dup

80 + ' 2drop $L

104 + ' 0 $L

' load 15C + ' 0 $L

$E

dev /packages/obp-tftp

: $M dup 24 - HIS-ENET-HA 6 move 14 + ;

' open 66C - ' $M $L

$E

" /chaos" ['] find-device catch if 2drop else

0 to my-self 0 0 " AAPL,ignore" property then

unselect-dev

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > set-defaults ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? false ok
0 > setenv use-nvramrc? true ok
0 > setenv load-base 600000 ok
0 > setenv diag-device ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr ok
0 > nvedit
ok
0 > nvstore ok
0 > reset-all load-partition, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > boot /AAPL,ROM load-partition, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > dev /AAPL,ROM ok
0 > words
load open
ok
0 > see load
: load
real_base 400000 <> virt_base -800000 <> or real? or little? or if
10 base ! " FFFFFFFF" " real-base" $setenv " FFFFFFFF" " virt-base" $setenv
" false" " real-mode?" $setenv " false" " little-endian?" $setenv " boot /AA
PL,ROM"
!set-restart cr " RESETing to change Configuration!" type cr reset-all
then
; ok
0 > see open
: open
true ; ok
0 >

*****And then maybe this one is the one you want. It's labeled "NVRAM Patch 2":

hex

code ictc! 7E9BFBA6 l, 829F0000 l, 3BFF0004 l, 4E800020 l, c;

: $G FFFF0000 pvr@ and dup 80000 = swap C0000 = or ;

: $I $G if ictc! else drop then ;

: $D find-device ;

: $E device-end ;

: $L BLpatch ; : $R BRpatch ;

: $X execute ;

: $p 0 to my-self property ;

: $a " /chosen" $D $p $E ;

: &c " ata-enable" $call-parent ;

10 buffer: km

dev kbd

get-key-map km swap move

$E

: ck 0 do swap dup 3 >> km + c@ 1 rot 7 and << and or loop ;

: bootr 0d word count encode-string " machargs" $a

0 0 1 ck if 0 and else dup 1 = if 3d 0 1 else f 3d 0 2 then ck if 40 or then th

40 and if bye else 11 $I 1e 0 do ['] boot catch drop 1f4 ms loop then 0 $I bye

: myboot boot-command eval ;

dev enet

' open constant $M

: $M2 $M 710 - $X ;

: rl@ -7D9D40 $X ;

: chstat begin $M2 $M 14f8 - $X -7D6C20 $X rl@ 400 and 0= until ;

: bmstat begin $M2 $M 13F0 - $X rl@ 100 and until ;

: xmt1 get-msecs $M 720 - ! chstat $M A00 - $X bmstat chstat ;

' xmt1 ' WRITE 10 + l!

62 ' READ 7 - c!

: READ { _p _n ; _a } begin _p _n bead -> _a _a 2+

if _p c@ 80 and 0= else 1 then until _a ;

$E

dev /packages/mac-parts

: $M -7E89E0 $X 8000 alloc-mem 7F00 + 4 -7E89E0 $X ;

' load 268 - ' $M $L

' load 160 + ' 0 $L

$E

dev ata0

: open use-ata-interface 0 &c -1 ;

: set-device-ID set-drive-select ;

: reset-atapi-bus reset-ata-bus ;

' reset-ata-bus 2c + ' 2 $L

$E

dev ata1

: open use-ata-interface 0 &c -1 ;

: set-device-ID set-drive-select ;

: reset-atapi-bus reset-ata-bus ;

' reset-ata-bus 2c + ' 2 $L

$E

dev scsi

: $M ['] do-cmd + ;

: $M2 5 us -5f0 $M $X ;

: $M3 -710 $M f over $X $X ;

: $M4 1 ms ;

-1AC $M ' $M2 $L

100 $M ' $M3 $L

120 $M ' $M4 $L

124 $M ' 1 $L

$E

ff000000 dup dup 400 28 do-map 4+ w@ 10 and 0=

if 90b7 f3000032 w! then

unselect-dev

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > set-defaults ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? false ok
0 > setenv use-nvramrc? true ok
0 > setenv load-base 600000 ok
0 > setenv diag-device ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > nvedit
ok
0 > nvstore ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > reset-all no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > dev pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > " pci1/@e/@0:6" open-dev ok
1 > init-deblocker ok
2 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > setenv auto-boot? true ok
0 > setenv boot-device pci1/@e/@0:6 ok
0 > setenv boot-command 0 bootr -v ok
0 > boot CLAIM failed
ok
0 > BYE no active packagecan't find devicedo-cmd, huh??
CLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM failedCLAIM fa
iledCan't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6Can't open deblocker package
can't OPEN: pci1/@e/@0:6DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFFFFFF3 at %SRR0: FF80D0EC %S
RR1: 0000B070

Open Firmware 2.0a9
To continue booting the MacOS type:
BYE
To continue booting from the default boot device type:
BOOT
ok
0 > BOOT DEFAULT CATCH!, code=FFFFFFF3 at %SRR0: FF80D0D4 %SRR1: 0000B070
ok
0 >

Of course, not all of it is patch. You'll have to figure out where to extract it.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
PC Floppy Drive & OF Info...

Thanks for the open firmware info, HawaiiCruser, I've also managed to rescue most of the firmware patches as text files, using Yahoo's cache of the Geocities site.

It all seems to be have been removed now Sad

I've also obtained a couple of PC floppy disk drives with cables from the local recycling tip.

Will hopefully have some time soon to play.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
Rom chips...

Hi,

I've had a play with the PEX Prototype over the holiday season and have tried all the approached tried here in the past to try and get it booting.

However, so far I have been unsucessful. Persuing another avenue that a floppy drive boot might work, but with the version of the open firmware I have not supporting this, I was wondering if anyone else with the removal PLCC roms would be willing to post them to me.

I'd pay postage there and back. I would make a copy of these roms and send them right back.

Thanks,

James.

iamdigitalman's picture
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Joined: Mar 2 2004
Posts: 629
Would the ROM from a Workgrou

Would the ROM from a Workgroup Server 9650 work? It is essentially a PM9600, and I happen to have one.

I also have a beige G3 which might work, I just don't know where the ROM is or if it's removable.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
Hi,I think ROMs from earl

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I think ROMs from earlier or later models prob. won't work, as each ROM and version of Open Firmware has hardware-specific information for only that model of Mac.

I've got a Beige G3 rom - but could you double-check that the ROM from the WGS 9650 is a rom card and not a cache-simm. If it is a ROM I would be interested.

James.

iamdigitalman's picture
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Posts: 629
My bad, it's a cache simm. I

My bad, it's a cache simm. I could have sworn the ROM on those models was socketed. I wonder what other models might work...

Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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Posts: 1434
PEX ROM

Just a reminder from the original thread, Digibarn's PEX has an installed ROM card right next to the first RAM slot:

Possibly the only one in existence. We never heard any updates from them whether they ever got that machine to boot. I always wondered why they seem unmotivated on pursuing the idea.

(This image location is the digibarn site location...I didn't ask their permission...don't know if that's within AF's rules.)

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
PEX ROM...

Hi,

Thanks for the heads up on the ROM... I was aware that this seems to be the missing key in getting the PEX to boot easily. I e-mailed Bruce at Digibarn a couple of months ago asking if either he could setup the PEX or simply extract the ROM SIMM and post it to me, but he said that it's currently in storage and he doesn't have the time to do this.

I might send him another e-mail to try and persuade him again. I was thinking of getting together a donation amount for the Museum to see if this would persuade him (via http://www.justgiving.com/)?

James.

iamdigitalman's picture
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Posts: 629
The internet ated my last post

I know why the machine did not boot. In one of the pictures, they show they tried to boot from a System 7.1.1 floppy, which the system rejected. However, it does show the flashing question mark on a floppy, which is why they probably thought a floppy would work. I am sure if you booted off a OS 9 CD, it would boot right up; and if you had the Norton boot CD (as I do), you could probably recover the hard drives and find some very interesting stuff, including this mythical video editing OS they talk about.

If we could get them to release the ROM so we could dump it, or provide them with instructions on how to do that, then perhaps someone could burn it to a blank ROM, assuming you had some soldering skills to make the custom ROM board.

Maybe someone could get them to lend the machine out to one of us for a few months, so we could try these things. I could try, but shipping this machine from California to Michigan might run into some money. But hey, it never hurts to try.

-digital Wink

themike's picture
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Joined: Jul 21 2004
Posts: 455
I have the time. And I live j

I have the time. And I live just outside Santa Cruz. I wonder if they'd let me play around with it...

__________________

dream it, think it, feel it, be it

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
Hi, Excellent news... if

Hi,

Excellent news... if they would let you play around with it that would be amazing.

It would be great to try and their one booting, and saving the ROM.

I'd be happy to e-mail them again to try and facilitate this, as well as asking about borrowing the rom simm from them - or of course you could e-mail them too/instead.

James.

iamdigitalman's picture
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Joined: Mar 2 2004
Posts: 629
when you do contact them, ple

when you do contact them, please mention you have an existing PEX. They seem to think they have the only one in the world. I would take pictures of it to prove it to them.

Quote:

The following system (a prototype) was given to us by an anonymous former Apple manager who was a manager of the attempt by Apple of creating a system powerful enough to compete with Avid, which then dominated the nonlinear video editing market. The following was one of fifty systems built by Apple for internal development. According to the manager this is the only one that survived, the other 49 having gone into the crusher. Apple abandoned the program after the return of Steve Jobs (and the determination that Apple would lose money on every system they made in trying to compete with Avid). This prototype has some very unusual features which we will share with you. For late 1997 this was one of the most powerful desktop computer systems ever built.

themike's picture
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Joined: Jul 21 2004
Posts: 455
Yeah, what is his email? I ca

Yeah, what is his email? I can ask him as well... maybe seeing significant interest will make a difference!

__________________

dream it, think it, feel it, be it

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Posts: 67
I think they're right in thin

I think they're right in thinking initially that they had the only feature-complete one - however later on in the article they do mention that someone else had contacted him saying that they had a fully functioning one too:

A comment from Mark Crutchfield (May 2006):
I saw several postings to the effect that you have the only working PowerExpress prototype in existence. Well, I hate to bust your bubble, but I have had one for several years that I obtained in some surplus equipment that came from Motorola. It is missing the G3 275MHZ card, but runs fine with a 604 processor card. It boots from either SCSI bus, the IDE bus or from CD. It is quite stable and I actually used it in my business for a while.
(from: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/mac-powerexpress/index.html)

I do agree it's frustrating that they don't seem willing to try and set it up further - perhaps they simply don't have the time - it's certainly one large collection of computers that they have.

themike - I've PM'ed you Bruce's e-mail address for you to contact him too. I'll send an e-mail today asking 2 things:

1) If someone came and visited the museum whether they could have a go with the PEX and if so would they be able, at the end, remove the ROM simm to post to the UK (I will pay the postage both ways).

2) If he would be willing to extract the ROM simm and post it to me.

James.

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Posts: 67
Hawaii Crusier, Hope you h

Hawaii Crusier,

Hope you had a good start to the new year.

I was wondering if you had a copy of the bootx iso 9660 cd image that was made for you by powersurge9600?

I'm having trouble getting bootx to load from a CD and I think it may be that I've gone wrong somewhere with creating my own cd.

Thanks,

James.

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Posts: 67
I've not managed to get BOOTX

I've not managed to get BOOTX to load properly from an ISO 9660 CD ROM - it keeps erroring stating:

unrecognized Client Program formatstate not valid

According to the netbsd website this means:

"This is a general Open Firmware error message indicating that the filename you tried to open either doesn't exist or is in the wrong format. For Open Firmware 1 and 2 machines, it must be an XCOFF file (such as ofwboot.xcf) and for Open Firmware 3 machines, it must be either XCOFF or ELF (such as a kernel)."

However I have managed to get another bootloader for NetBSD to load from an IS0 9660 CD ROM and tried to boot a NETBSD kernel, which worked for a little bit, but then froze at a point... if anyone is familiar with netbsd and has some pointers that wold be great.

Picture to follow.

James.

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Posts: 67
BOOTX now working...

Thanks to Hawaii Cruiser sending through his copy of BOOTX I have now got it loading on the PEX.

I've tried pointing the boot sequence to a HD connected to the second channel of the ATA card - however it stops saying"MAC-PARTS: ERROR ON FIND-PACKAGE".

In the previous thread PowerSurge9600 stated that bootx updates the mac-parts and mac-files section of open firmware so that HFS disks can be read.

I'm guessing that this isn't working correctly with this version of open firmware. If anyone has any experience of open firmware/nvram patches and has any ideas it would be much appreciated.

Regards,

James.

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Posts: 67
ROM News...

Hi,

I've been in contact with Bruce at Digibarn who has agreed to extract the ROM SIMM and lend it to me for a short while, to see if I can boot my PEX with it.

I've also asked him to send along the HD and the flash ROM chips from his board to see if they help. He's currently on a trip but will get round to this in a few weeks.

As a way of saying thank you and also to support the Digibarn (as they really do have an impressive computer collection and hosted events) I've set up a donation page to their non-profit section called the 'contact consortium' and started it off with $50:

http://www.firstgiving.com/digibarn/

Any donations to them would be appreciated - and of course I'll keep posting here anyway with updates on progress that the ROM SIMM may bring.

James.

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Posts: 67
I've now acquired a plcc rom

I've now acquired a plcc rom programmer so that I can backup and duplicate the plcc roms on the PEX and the ones that hopefully Bruce will be sending over.

I've also acquired some more of the plcc rom chips (am29F040) to make a backup.

Regards,

James.

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Posts: 67
ROMs

Hi,

I've now successfully read the PEX flash chips and saved them for safekeeping. I've also managed to make copies of them onto new plcc chips.

If anyone would like them to try on their PEX (if any PEX owners are still out there!) let me know.

Each of the chips is 4megabits (512kilobytes) - making a total of 1MB of ROM. I was thinking that these chips must only contain open firmware - as this is the size of the open firmware chips on new-world macs. PPC ROMs are 4MB - which I guess means that the Mac Toolbox, 68k emulator, etc takes up 3MB.

I guess the development PEX's are the only old-world mac to have potentially updateable open firmware!

I'm assuming that on Digibarn's ROM Simm open firmware and the toolbox, etc are all combined into one. It may be possible to extract the later version of open firmware from this ROM simm or to copy the rom simm to larger 16megabits (2megabyte) plcc chips, if the motherboard support this.

James.

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Posts: 67
They're on their way...

Hi All,

Just to let you know Bruce at Digibarn has shipped the ROM SIMM, the 2 PLCC flash chips and the 2 HDs from his PEX over to me - should be arriving sometime later this week.

I'll be playing with them this weekend so fingers crossed.

James.

PS> Let me know if people are tired of these mini-updates - I could just post larger less frequent updates.

tmtomh's picture
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Joined: Dec 20 2003
Posts: 568
NO!!! Please keep posting upd

NO!!! Please keep posting updates as they occur. Very interesting!

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
There may be trouble ahead...

Bruce from Digibarn shipped out the HDs, ROM SIMM and Flash Chips via UPS last Tuesday (09/02/2009) - but they seem to have gone AWOL before catching the flight to the UK: http://www.simpletracking.com/QuickTrack/?TrackingNumber=1ZF71V316794589073

Hopefully the package will turn up! If anyone happens to live near the Louisville, KY, UPS depot and fancies putting some pressure / looking for the package if it's not traced it would be appreciated.

Fingers crossed!

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Posts: 67
Package found...

Hi,

After getting more anxious over the past week that the package was missing in action and might never been seen again, and with the package tracer put on it by UPS not turning anything up I turned to the power of the internet:

http://www.browncafe.com/forum/ups_discussions/223401-hub_louisville_ky_reward_offered.html

Amazingly, a UPS employee tracked it down for me and it is now being re-sent to England as we speak. Touch wood it might arrive in time for this weekend, as I have some spare time to play with the PEX.

James.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
Package has arrived... very interesting...

Hey,

The package arrived safe and sound this morning. So far I've successfully read, saved and copied the flash eprom chips from the Digibarn board.

The rom simm is very interesting, as it's actually made up of 16 flash-able chips (AMD 28F020), 256k each, for a total of 4096 kilobytes of rom - the standard PPC mac rom size.

In other news I've contacted Mark Crutchfield who is the only other person (apart from the Digibarn) to own a feature-complete 9700 to see if I can get some more information about his setup.

The fun bit will be tomorrow - putting in the chips and rom simm and seeing if the board will boot, and scavenging the HDs to see if anything remains of the 'souped-up video editing version of the MacOS' that has been talked about on the Digibarn page.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
It lives!!!

Hey people,

Just to let you know the PEX is now booting Mac OS 8.6 and almost booted OS X.

I will post full details soon... in summary it's been a very tricky beast - even with the ROM SIMM and updated flash chips from the digibarn.

Quick insight:

* The Digibarn ROM chips contain open firmware 2.3.
* The Digibarn ROM SIMM provides the full Mac OS ROM.
* A 200Mhz 604e card allows the Mac OS ROM to boot - a G4 upgrade card hangs the whole thing.
* Onboard mouse and keyboard don't work - but USB-attached ones do.
* Booting into the classic Mac OS - the flash chips provide a boot chime, which then loads the code from the ROM SIMM, which causes another boot chime (not the standard mac one) to then load the classic rom.

James.

Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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Joined: Jan 20 2005
Posts: 1434
History is made!

Amazing! Congratulations! How about some screen shots of ASP? What does ASP call it? Strange that the ADB doesn't work. Maybe you could post an audio file of the second chime. A detailed photo of the ROM card would also be welcome.

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
ROM SIMM Pics...

Hi,

Here are some closeup pics of the ROM SIMM:

Front:
pex_rom_side_1.jpg

Back:pex_rom_side_2.jpg

Larger versions are available in my profile gallery.

James.

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Joined: Jan 20 2005
Posts: 700
ive been semi watching the p

ive been semi watching the progress of this thread for a while now and i must say ive never seen such devotion before!

__________________

-Justin
(dead) PB100, Q650, PB Wallstreet, beige G3, Imac snow 600, Ibook g4, SE30, (dead) IIsi, TiBook 667VGA, PBg4 1.5, MDD dual 1.25ghz, 1.8ghz g5 tower.
OS7.5 to 10.3.9. I LOVE CLASSIC MACS!

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Joined: Jun 1 2004
Posts: 67
ASP Reports & OS 9

Hi,

Here is an ASP report from the PEX running Mac OS 8.6.

Of note are the fact that the machine name is missing, but the model number is 409.

Also, the internal video isn't identified properly on the PCI bus in 8.6, but still works and is recognised.
ASP_Report_OS_8_6.txt

I have now also booted Mac OS 9.0.4 on it.

Here is the ASP Report from 9.0.4 - which has more info than the one from 8.6:
ASP_Report_OS_9_0_4.txt

It won't boot anything above 9.0.4 as after the happy mac loads it then freezes on a gray screen, just before the next section of 'Mac OS 9' screen showing. I have a hunch that perhaps it's something to do with the machine name not showing.

If anyone remembers how to hack / add supported system ids to OS 9 any info would be appreciated. I'm going to use the following information to try and add support back in:
* http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/os8_68030.html
* http://support.apple.com/kb/TA47453?viewlocale=en_US
* http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OS9/os_9_2_1_install_mods.html
* http://www.rgaros.nl/gestalt/chapters/ch-06.html
* http://gestlab.free.fr/gestlab/glab_us.html#Top

Hawaii Cruiser's picture
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The "PEX HD" is located on th

The "PEX HD" is located on the onboard 50pin SCSI bus? Your attempts to boot X were on the same bus? Which version of X were you trying to boot and how did you install X on a 50pin SCSI drive?

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Okay, this is truly awesome.

The _only_ way this could _possibly_ get any cooler would be if one of the legendary dual 350 MHz PPC 604ev Mach V processor cards were to surface somewhere. You, friend, have made history, and I take my hat off to you.

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Yeah, this is very cool - wel

Yeah, this is very cool - well done, and keep it up!

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ROM SIMM DUMP...

Thanks... I've now dumped the ROM SIMM and would be willing to e-mail to anyone who is interested if you PM me your e-mail address.

Next step is to get OS X booting on this.

James.

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Re: Okay, this is truly awesome.

StevieC wrote:

The _only_ way this could _possibly_ get any cooler would be if one of the legendary dual 350 MHz PPC 604ev Mach V processor cards were to surface somewhere. You, friend, have made history, and I take my hat off to you.

Thank you very much! Will keep my eyes peeled for one of those cards Smile

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Re: The "PEX HD" is located on th

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

The "PEX HD" is located on the onboard 50pin SCSI bus? Your attempts to boot X were on the same bus? Which version of X were you trying to boot and how did you install X on a 50pin SCSI drive?

Hi, Before I was trying to boot OSX from an ATA-HD connected via an ATA-PCI card. However, now I know the internetal / external SCSI buses work (as does a ATTO PCI SCSI card I have) I'll try the internal busses first.

I'll be using a Digital Audio G4, with the ATTO PCI SCSI card to install OS X on the SCSI HD.

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Re:OS X

A couple of things about installing OS X which you probably already know, but just in case: "Old World" Macs, supposedly, will only boot from a drive that was formatted with Drive Setup, not Disk Utility. I created my X systems for the PEX using XpostFacto 3 in a PM 9600--another "Old World" "legacy" Mac (when is it right to use those terms?). Of course, the DA is not "Old World," so that may be important--don't know.

I'm wondering, since the PEX is contemporary with the Beige G3, if perhaps an early X would boot without XPF. The Beige could install unaided up through Jaguar OS 10.2, so maybe that would be the ceiling for the PEX, especially since the PEX processor might have been a G3. OS X Beta has the kext file for the PEX, but I was never successful installing the Beta X onto a SCSI drive. I resorted to cloning.

I'm guessing that's the older ATTO PCI Express card. I've got a couple of ATTO UL2D cards which were OEM in some B&W's, but they've never worked in any of my machines earlier than the B&W. I had a PCI Express card, too. Funny, I never thought of trying it in the PEX. SCSI might be more likely for success than ATA, although there's native ATA on the PEX too.

Will be pretty cool if someday you can get that machine maxed out. Would be interesting to see it do video. I wonder if anywhere in the world--like in someone's desk drawer at Apple--there's a VCI card around. That would be the icing on the cake.

I'm really glad you picked up the PEX. You're doing a great job with it!

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Re:OS X

Hawaii Cruiser wrote:

A couple of things about installing OS X which you probably already know, but just in case: "Old World" Macs, supposedly, will only boot from a drive that was formatted with Drive Setup, not Disk Utility. I created my X systems for the PEX using XpostFacto 3 in a PM 9600--another "Old World" "legacy" Mac (when is it right to use those terms?). Of course, the DA is not "Old World," so that may be important--don't know.

I'm wondering, since the PEX is contemporary with the Beige G3, if perhaps an early X would boot without XPF. The Beige could install unaided up through Jaguar OS 10.2, so maybe that would be the ceiling for the PEX, especially since the PEX processor might have been a G3. OS X Beta has the kext file for the PEX, but I was never successful installing the Beta X onto a SCSI drive. I resorted to cloning.

I'm guessing that's the older ATTO PCI Express card. I've got a couple of ATTO UL2D cards which were OEM in some B&W's, but they've never worked in any of my machines earlier than the B&W. I had a PCI Express card, too. Funny, I never thought of trying it in the PEX. SCSI might be more likely for success than ATA, although there's native ATA on the PEX too.

Will be pretty cool if someday you can get that machine maxed out. Would be interesting to see it do video. I wonder if anywhere in the world--like in someone's desk drawer at Apple--there's a VCI card around. That would be the icing on the cake.

I'm really glad you picked up the PEX. You're doing a great job with it!

Thanks HC for all the tips... I was wondering about early versions of Mac OS X too... I've got my hands on OS X Public Beta, 10.1.4 and 10.2 to see if these will now boot with the ROM SIMM - will certainly give them a go.

In terms of video, I was thinking of trying some A/V connectors from a PM 8500 (with ribbon cable) and seeing if this will fit the similar-looking slot on the PEX. A VCI card would be cool - you never know what might turn up.

If people would like to have a play around with the ROM files I've made available the following:

* PEX ROM SIMM Dump
* Original OF 2.0a9 Flash Chips Dump
* Digibarn OF 2.3 Flash Chips Dump
* OF 2.3 Device Tree listing (from Digibarn's Flash chips)

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HDs...

Digibarn also sent over the SCSI HD which were in their prototype - however they both don't work:

1 x Quantum Viking 3.5 series 455 68pin SCSI-2. Drive spins up but never becomes logically ready

1x Seagate Barracuda ST34371W 68pin SCSI-2. Drive spins up with lots of vibration but then cuts out.

Due to the way they were arranged in the case I suspect that the Quantum Viking would have been the boot disk, and the Seagate the additional HD.

I was thinking of getting a HD specialist (www.xytron.co.uk) to try and resurrect the system HD to see if there were any interesting files on this. I've found a reliable place that would charge £195 ($274.238) if data could be recovered.

Would anyone be prepared to chip in to enable this to happen?

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G3 Upgrade...

It's not quite the 275Mhz G3 that would have shipped with it - but I've obtained a Newertech G3 400Mhz to see if the ROM SIMM will recognise this and boot.

This would simplify things when trying to boot anything above Mac OS X 10.2 which require a G3 CPU (or a re-complied kernel).

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ROM Sound....

I thought I'd heard the unusual second boot sound the PEX makes - it's the same as the one that had been previously uncovered by Applefritter members: http://www.applefritter.com/node/3376

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An Update...

Hi fellow lurkers,

Just to let you know that I've still safely got all the parts that Digibarn sent over. I'm currently liaising with someone to help clone the original PEX ROM SIMM onto a flashable custom-made ROM SIMM. He's quite busy, but we'll get there.

I've currently not yet had time to fiddle any more with the PEX, but will start writing up booting the classic Mac OS adventures before I start tinkering again with OS X.

Regards,

James.

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ROM SOUNDS...

Also... via a thread on www.68kmla.org someone has kindly extracted the various startup ROM sounds contained on the different versions of the flash chips and on the ROM SIMM:

http://68kmla.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9297&start=25#p94436

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signing back on for the project . . .

I'm glad to be back online with all of you PEx-aholics! Laughing out loud

The good news is: I've cleaned up my TELCO Rack, re-arranged the A/V setup and have so far got my tape deck playin' on my revived, if somewhat ancient, 5.1 Home Theater System. After I debug the rest of the lashup, ( an amazing assemblage of cables and speaker wiring) I'll be ready for the next impossible project.

The better news is: the top shelf is empty and I think my testbed/tower/humongous power supply kluge will fit . . . :?

. . . if not I'll drop all the equipment a scootch and re-enlist for this current PExHackin' offensive!

jt: crazy as ever! :Smile

{night court} . . . but I'm feeling MUUUUUCH Better NOW!{/night court}

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Back in the MacHackin'Biz =8-D

Weeeellllllll:

I've completely redone my Telco Rack. Flipped the Aluminum Angle Base upside down and created four leveling legs with 5/8" Hex Head Bolts w/nuts top & bottom.

It's more stable than ever sittin' on the carpet of the bedroom floor! Smile
Just gotta plumb up one axis now that I've loaded the sucker back up. Wink

Four levels of Media Storage drawers acquired at Goodwill now sit on the Big@$$ Hex Lock-Nuts, creating a new shelf level! And for the first time EVER, I've got a leftover HomeBrew (read formed on my "former" 48" x 16 gauge box-n-pan brake w/matchin' 4" x 16 gauge notcher, WOOT!!!!!!!) Rack Shelf after rearrangin' the TelCo Monster's config! =8-O

Sitting above all the A/V crud I've been talking about in another thread . . .

. . . are the two original steel Shelves that came with my $15 TelCo Rack, nabbed at my local Metal Recycler back-n-da-Bronx!

On one sits my favorite hack-in-progress: the MedusaDock, no lid a-tall and a minimalist Powerbook Duo 230 TestBed in the usual position, but with the LCD & NuBus Slots functional. Flippin'it over reveals the greatly modified BasePlate/KBD-Trackball-Deck of my beloved BabyPB & a REAlly purty RED Radius 1/2 length NuBus Display Adapter.

When I nabbed a PB100 in even better shape than my very first and onliest-ever purchased NEW PowerBook, a VERY pampered PB100. Eventually it'll be a retro (bass-ackwards?) Digital PictureFrame Hack.

But on the top shelf I've got two more MacHackin' favorites:
The nearly completed PPC Quadra 700 with graftted on four slot @$$-end . . . Wink
. . . and the PEx MoBo/9600 Frame TestBed, all set up & ready to rock! Laughing out loud

When I get some extra & money for the time & extra wampum . . .
. . . for exactly the right Accelerator :Smile

jt: still dreamin'on! =8-/

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Anyone else for a ROM SIMM?

Hi,

The PEX itself has gone on the backburner for now while while trag (http://www.applefritter.com/user/1470) is helping me replicate the original PEX ROM SIMM onto a re-programmable ROM SIMM.

I was thinking would anyone else like a copy made of the PEX ROM SIMM for use in their prototype?

Alternatively, this ROM SIMM will also be a re-programmable ROM SIMM that could be used in any of the PowerSurge PowerMac models.

James.

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You betcha! Just send me a . . .

. . . private message about how much it's gonna cost.

How many layers is the ROM SIMM PCB?

Who's doing the PCB layout/artwork & how?

How are you prototyping it, or are you going straight to a fabricator?

Inquiring lunatics want to know! Cool

jt Wink