potential purchase on a apple //c...

Mr. Fix,

The //c came out first as model #4000. It turned out to have a timing error with its serial port controller, so some modems don't work properly with it. Apple came out with a revised version (model#4100) that fixed the error, and I think could have a memory expansion card loaded with up to 1MB of memory installed inside. Make sure you get a #4100 if it's a //c.

BTW the standard green screen monitor (9"), and the floppy drives (require maintenance) are typically the first things to go on a system like this, so test them before you buy it.

Frankly, if I were you I'd much rather get the //c+. It had a smart port so that besides the built in 3.5" 800k drive, you could daisy chain up to five more drives to it, including a dual 5.25" floppy drive (compatible with all the old disk formats). Also, the //c+ CAN be upgraded with the (up to) 1MB RAM expansion card (I've got a couple set up this way). There are too many differences/ improvements for me to list so go look up the version differences on Wikipedia.

Mutant Pie

I think the //c's on the whole are very limiting due to their integrated design. Of course, this depends on what you want to use it for, but If you want to do any sort of tweaking or expanding of functionality, you're better off with an enhanced //e. You'll get the same functionality and better compatibility with all of the other Apple II gear out there.

Also, back when I owned my original //c, I recall some popular games like Choplifter not being compatible with it either. These games ran checksums on the Apple ROMs as a form of copy protection and had not yet been updated to account for the new //c ROM.

I got mine for $15 with everything (including imagewriter II and 2 external floppy drives, and a ton of software—it had no boxes though) so I guess I got a great deal. I have no clue how to use it though.

That depends on whether you're an insane Apple collecting freak or not. If you are, then the going rate is whatever you want to pay. $50, $500, $50,0,000,,00,0, whatever you want. If not, then I certainly wouldn't pay more than $20.

Practically speaking, these computers are 100% WORTHLESS. The only reason to pay more than a few dollars would be if you're an insane Apple collecting freak.

Are you an insane Apple collecting freak? If so, then yes. If not, no.

I really dig the Apple //c+ it has the built in hyper speed , which I believe can be disabled with a few keys , it runs darn near everything the //e ever did , and it can take the neweer style 5 1/4 drives! very clean system and compact which makes this model very popular!

Patrick
A24ever.

Thanks to all that have replied. So, basically from what im reading is the asking price is far too much for what the computer is really worth, (i only want it for nostalgia reasons, which i can do with emulators).

I found another seller that has an old //gs for sale, $40. looks like a basic system with only one card in it, i presume its a printer or scsi card. Excuse my ignorance on the //gs but are these capable of running //, //e programs, and do programming in basic/integer/prodos? Is the //gs a better purchase? thanks in advance.

Yeah, $125 is pretty steep. The closer you can get to free, the better. But nostalgia is nostalgia... and in those cases, as you mention, emulation just won't do.
Is it far to the right as you look at the front of the machine? It's most likely a memory card (most likely 256k). They were very, very common.
Yes.
Only if you like it more than a //c. You'll need a separate disk drive and keyboard, items that were built into the //c.

For $40, the IIgs is unequivocally the better purchase. That card is likely a RAM expansion card, since basically everyone had one. It would be equivalent to a Disk ][ controller card inside a II plus or IIe. Everyone expects one.

I'd hazard a guess that if this guy has a IIGS, he also has at least one disk drive for it as well as the keyboard and mouse. But the lack of a keyboard and mouse isn't such a big deal, since they're ADB and you can use any Mac keyboard and mouse.

Okay, I'll bite. Why, in your OPINION, since that's what it is is an OPINION, are //c's WORTHLESS computers?

Even with the first generation of //c's, which mine is, you have most of the usual add on cards for the //e built right in. Granted I can't expand the memory beyond 128k without a major hardware hack, but since I'm not using Appleworks with it that's fine.

I use it primarily to play old Apple II games and they use anywhere from 48k to 128k so I have enough memory as it is. Also I've added an original Playstation 5" LCD display which makes the system much more portable.

Dean

So you just use yours to play games? Is that it? Do you do anything else?

And to clarify, I think that practically speaking, ALL old computers are worthless, not just the Apple IIc. No one really expects to get real work done on them.

Seriously. Do you even do word processing or any other every-day office or home task on them?

LOL, Dog Cow, just exactly how much is this???
Is the new math I have been hearing about?

I bought my IIc in 1985. Expanded it to 1 Meg (Applied Engineering) and used it not only for gaming, but for serious work aboard ship and ashore for ten years. My best friend bought his first and when I saw what he could do with it I decided I wanted one too.
No. It was not expandable with the use of cards like the II, II+, and IIe, but with the 1 Meg ram card installed I could produce and print near letter quality documents, databases and spreadsheets with Appleworks and my Imagewriter II. It was portable. I can take it anywhere and set it up in about five minutes. When my best friend switched over to PC's and wanted to get rid of his IIc I took it off his hands. I still have (and use) both his and mine. I bought a sheet feeder off of eBay for the Imagewriter and more recently I found a VGA convertor box so that I can hook up the IIc to any monitor that uses a VGA connector.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an Apple IIc or IIc+.
The average price of a used IIc (depending on condition and what comes with it) can run anywhere on ebay for as little as $9.99 to as much as $150.
Myself I would never pay $150 (or even $125) for a IIc, but if you remember last year there was some guy who paid several thousand dollars for one that was brand new in the box and had never seen the light of day. As a matter of fact there is a thread here that discusses it.
You have to calm yourself Dogcow...you may be having a puppycalf. lol

Yes, as I said I use it simply to play games. Is there anything wrong with that?

So if they're all worthless why do you bother with retro-computing, why have a retro-computing website?

As I said the //c is for gaming. I have a GS also that I'm contemplating using to do a newsletter. I have a copy of both Publish It! 4 and GeoPublish, both of which I used back in the 80's to do a Star Trek fan club newsletter, that I might switch between to do the newsletter. Before you ask, yes I also have a copy of GraphicWriter III for the GS, along with Adobe InDesign for my Mac. But I like the simpler style that the Apple II 8 bit programs have. I'll probably even use Appleworks, version 3, to do the articles to import into the newsletter.

As far as "serious" computing with the II, it can be done, it just depends on what you want to do and what programs you have. Lots of small businesses used the II back in the day to run their offices, those programs are pretty much abandonware now and can be found online.

So, as I said before, if you consider ALL old computers worthless why are you into retro-computing? I gave you my reasons, let's hear yours.

Dean

Dean, relax. We're all on the same side here.

Look at Dogcow's post where he says Practically speaking. He said the same thing in his first response to you. Retro computers are worthless solely from a practical point of view. You could get a Pentium III from the side of the curb that will provide far more functionality in a modern computing environment. What you could do "back in the day" is irrelevant except to fans like us.
That's all that was meant: the value we place in these old systems is subjective to our own interest.

That's why, for 8-bit computing, I'm more an Atari guy than Apple. That's what I had back in the day. I'm familiar with the hardware and software, so that's what I collect. A 410 cassette program recorder is going to be a doorstop to anyone but another Atari fan, but I still want one!

It's a joke. It just stands for whatever ridiculously expensive price one can imagine.

That's exactly what I mean! When the IIc was a new computer, and even when it was just a few years old, it was still practically useful. There wasn't anything else that was just so much better than it, unless you had a mainframe or minicomputer or something (or a Mac! :lol: ) It was worth much more money.

Because I like putzing around with them, and they're simple enough for me to write lower-level programs than I could on today's computers, and I can understand more or less everything that is involved in their operation. But I sure as heck don't type my papers or manage my web site or balance my check book on an Apple II, even though I _could_ do it, and people did do it 20 years ago.

I find myself in a quandry over Dogcows use of the term "Practically Useful".

Every Apple II I have ( just as every other older computer I have) has a "Practical Use". No matter the model.
When I tear them down to clean and rebuild them I learn something new that I did not know before. It's a "Continuing Education" thing for me.
I make actual documents with my IIc and my imagewriter II. Is it "Practically Useful" to do this when I have a brand new Dell 3-in-1 sitting in my office? No, but I get enjoyment from the doing.

I am not a programmer, but I intend to learn how at some point and the software I want to learn is Basic. So what better machine to learn on than an Apple II, or IIc? Is it "Practically Useful"?
No. There are newer languages and faster machines.

The point is... it's all relative.

- 9" green monochrome monitor (works)
- 14" color RGB monitor (works)
- Apple //c with carrying case (computer works but keybd switch is sticky)
- 14400 baud modem (works)
- mini modem (300 or 1200 baud)
- UHF TV modulator from apple
- Db15 to RCA port modulator from apple
- Apple // SCM fastex 80 (anybody know what this is???)
- joystick
- a bunch of original software (that microsoft one is actually a database/spreadsheet prg for the apple ii's)

i hate nostalgia, but i didnt pay 125.00 for it also.

only problem i have now is the computer and monitors are all yellowed, anybody know of a good technique of getting rid of the yellowing?

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/
Is all you need to know.

there was once a guy in this forum and I can't for the life of me remember his name? he got the actual paint scheme colors for the II+ and //e series of computers and was able to strip down completely and prime and spray the bodies to match exactly the color that the computers came out with. It was a little costly but from what I was told was a computer that came out Mint Condition when done! I think he resides somewhere in California , would have to do some research on older threads but it had to do with the paint scheme color .

I am sure one could just clean the heck out of a //c bodie and spray paint it to match as best as he could , but that would be a crappy way of doing things . If the item in question is worth the investment , then do it right , especially if one wishes to keep it as investment piece.

Patrick.
A24ever.

hmm, thanks i'll look into those methods. As for the computer itself, im keeping it for nostalgia reasons, and also to revisit programming. Back in the late 80's i wrote my own BBS program in basic, and dribbled in machine language, stopped all that once i went to college.