Hi I plan to replace my G3 Desktop (sonnet G4 500MHz) with A Power Mac G4 AGP 400MHz. Do you think it worth it? Is the PM G4 AGP much faster even though less MHz?
Thanx for some advice as I have to give an offer to a machine for sale near me... hence the "Urgent" 
You won't see much of a speed difference, but you will be able to get better faster video cards.
So it should be the same but it will take Tiger of course
What about the available CPU upgrades?
I got it! A lovely looking machine the G4 AGP! It is my first shiny plastic MAC
I wish the best of you and your new computer. Let us know what you do with the thing, (i.e.: Upgrade the Hell out of it, etc...)
Already looking at the CPU upgrades
then upgrade it too the max!
The previous owner was still on 9.2.2, I am just booting up now on my OS 10.3 DVD
here starts the fun 
I ran Panther on G4 400 AGP with a gig of RAM and it ran beautifully. I think its great how an older box like that can still be a very capable machine. Enjoy!
Any ideas on future compatibility of such a card under OS 10.4? I am running 10.3.9 now and it is just smooth with 512Kb Ram
The AGP G4 has far faster CPU upgrades for it (remember faster G4 upgrades for a B&W require declocking the bus to 66MHz) and faster video cards (up to an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro). If the price is right, grab it. The first AGP (sawtooth) used a standard ATX power supply as well, so its east to convert over. Although the Digital Audio with is 4x AGP and 133MHz bus make a far better machine for upgrading, the faster bus and AGP *do* make a noticable difference. As I ran test compairing a gigabit to a digital audio using the same ram/cpu/videocard/HD setup. The DA was a good 10-35% faster depending on the function.
oh yeah, you *HAVE* to have a Radeon 9600 or higher, or an nVidia 5200FX (only mac AGP is an AGP Pro, which is G5 only, although flashing may or may not work) in order to work with Tigers Core™ technology. There is
way to hack in an older card to make it work. The card has to have hardware support for ARB_fragment_program, which earlier cards do not have.
What upgrades did you have in mind and at what prices?
Basically any of the upgrades listed here:
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?model=164&type=Processor&TI=%23TimeFormat%28Now%28%29%2C+&shoupgrds=Show+Upgrades
However, if it is a Sawtooth, you are limited to a single CPU upgrde most likely, unless its one of the rare Sawtooths that had UNI-N7 chipset, which allows for dual cpu's.
All very nice, thanx for the links
The question is will al these work under 10.4? I shall stck with the old 400MHz for the time being until I can get some feed back about compatibility issues...
Thanx again
The OWC ones dont requires any firmware mods or anything. They just plug in and work, zero software. Some other ones do require firmware changes, which may need to be updated for tiger, not real sure as Tiger hasent "officially" shipped yet.
Have you got an OWC upgrade? Which one?
You can see some info on the G4 here: http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g4saw.shtml
You can get the Apple Service Manual here:
http://www.whoopis.com/computer_repair/
Cheers, Tom (G4 AGP 400MHz)
Mac Troubleshooting, Maintenance & Tips
http://www.geocities.com/texas_macman/MacTroubleshoot.html
I have a 1.25GHz 7455B running at 1.33GHz. I have tested it up to 1.5GHz, bu its not stable, even with voltage boosting. So it stays at 1.33 for now until a fast enough upgrade comes out to make it worth while to change out. A 1.67GHz 7457 would be nice. Or the fabled 7460 with a 1MB L2 cache.
I can't help myself, I have to post my some what negative reply to those that advocate the "upgrade to the max" mentality... If you go that route, you are looking at lots of $$$ and a never ending black hole of money put into an aged machine.
A G4 1 GHz upgrade from OWC has become a good deal, but the quest for speed quickly looses it's value once you move up in price. Add it up. If you are willing to spend $400-$500 on a Processor upgrade, you might be better off selling the Mac and buying a faster one to start off with... I DO understand that most of us can't afford to put out that kind of cash all at once, but the incrimental upgrades always cost more money in the long run...
Are you looking to make it a gaming machine? Or, are you an average user?
I use a DP 500 G4 at work for CAD, and it works fine, the only time I need to move to the DP 2.0 G5 is for rendering , otherwise, the DP G4 500 serves me well...
I feel like an "Old Fart" for poo pooing the joy of getting your Mac up to speed, but it might not be the best way to spend your Mac dollars.
Cheers.
Oh upgrading isnt allways the best choice. But if you upgrade you mac a bit at a time over the first two years you have it (RAM, HD's, maybe a video card) then getting a CPU upgrade allows you to use those upgrades longer than if you bought a new machine. Then there are people like me who dont care about the cost so much, and are just addicted to hardware tweaking. I only own two (out of the 10 that I have) mac's that arent tweaked some how (three of them having complete case conversions, etc), and thats because they are two old to do much with. If you starting with a bone stock machine, than its only worth it to get one of the cheaper cpu upgrades so that you can have a bit more speed without breaking the bank. My personal machine here that is heavily modded out performs all the low to mid range Mac's currently sold in most cases. Although I am sure the iMac's will get an video card upgrade to the 9600 soon which may change that. But so long as they have the 5200FX, they suck for anything involving the video card. The mini is a great bang for the buck, but severely limited video wise. The eMac is in the same boat.
...with both of you. It is a question of choice. Apple at this time don't seem to have a new machine that suits me, but the G4 AGP I love, so it will be upgrade but probably a moderate upgrade. I already have 80 GB HD, 896 MB RAM, 128 MB ATI 9200 video card (for the moment...), so a 1 GHz or more CPU would be nice... I shall tell you what I do... I shall just wait for feed back from users that have upgrades under Tiger.
Why did you put a PCI video card into an AGP machine? (unless your driving 3-4 monitors)
Without hearing what Louis has to say about the PCI card, I will chime in and say (again- sorry) , I too purchased a 9200 128 MB ($129@OWC) for my B&W 500 G4 and also played with a friends G4 500 with a $70 AGP Radeon 8500 64 MB (ebay), and saw similar performance... I spent the money and was stuck with the card. This is the kind of "hopeful" purchase I was talking about... The money would have been better spent on an AGP card.
I agree that a 1 GHz processor upgrade would be a great start, and worth the money.
I'm done with my never ending diatribe about upgrades...
I do think, for what it's worth, that you have a great platform for future upgrades... With a little luck and googling for deals, It will serve you well into the future.
Cheers.
BTW: I wasn't talking about a "new" Mac, Perhaps a G4 466-933? I picked up a 733 QS for $450 off ebay, and sold the B&W 500 for $250... The performance gain was small with no L3 cache but the upgrade possibilities are far better. I think a DA 733(w/L3) would be a good buy...
If your going to buy a machine for upgrading, best to go with a bare bones 466 DA (which is what I did). If your putting in an upgrade, there is no point in spending money on a higher end proc, when the boards are the same.
I got caught by the arrival of Tiger and thought it was time to move on from my G3 266 MHz Desktop with a ZIF G4 500 MHz but I wanted to keep my costs as low as possible and that means until I have enough money for a good AGP card (256 Mb min) I have to stay with the PCI ATI 9200 128 Mb... In the first place I will have the CPU upgrade
PS If your wondering why it took me long to reply well I couldn't get on to the Applefritter site it kept telling me the server was not responding...
There isnt a 256MB card made for G4's. The X800 is G5 only, the new 9650 in G5's may work in 4x AGP's unless its an AGP pro, in which case the fastest card for a G4 is a Radeon 9800 Pro. Ans BTW, VRAm does not denote GPU speed. A 9800 Pro is leaps and bounds faster than a 9200 PCI, even though both have 128MB of ram. The ram just allows for more textures to be loaded onto the card at one time so they dont have to be fetched as often.