spreading 800KB 3.5" IIgs disks over several 140KB 5.25" disks

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spreading 800KB 3.5" IIgs disks over several 140KB 5.25" disks

Is it possible to take an existing disk image 800KB from a IIgs program and spread it out over several 140KB  5.25" floppy disks? IS this something ciderpress can do? Why? Lets just say someone has a working IIgs and several 5.25" drives but no 3.5" drive and cant afford one. No emulation, strictly real floppy disks.

 

Can it be done and how?

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If its a retail program, this

If its a retail program, this most likely would not work.  The program needs to know that it is split over multiple disks and to prompt the user to change them when needed.

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Ciderpress is not a retail

Ciderpress is not a retail program.    https://a2ciderpress.com/

 

Has anyone done this before?

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I'm very familiar with

I'm very familiar with ciderpress. I didn't mean ciderpress when I said I mean any retail program written for the IIgs. I meant a retail program like Print Shop IIgs or Apple Works IIgs. A retail program written for a single 800k disk expects to be on a single 800k disk. It's not going to like being split up on 5 or 6 140k disks. Because it's going to expect a file to be there that isn't. And if it doesn't know it was split up, it won't gracefully ask you to insert disk X of 6. It will just crash because it can't find the file it's looking for. 

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Ah ok, I misunderstood you.

Ah ok, I misunderstood you. So you are saying its in the actual code to look for the next disk and that cannot be altered?

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Correct. 

Correct. 

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If you have enough RAM, you

If you have enough RAM, you could put the files from a 3.5" disk onto 5.25" disks then copy them to a RAMdisk. Then boot off that

I knew someone that did that with GSOS until he could a afford a 3.5" drive.

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Thats interesting, how do you

Thats interesting, how do you get the 3.5 disk to 5.25" disks thouh? I could try that but how do you break up the disks?

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It wont really matter how you

It wont really matter how you break them down using ciderpress (ie. won't matter if the file named "TOOLS10" is on 5 1/4 disk #1 or disk #2), as all the files will be on one "disk" again once you copy the files back to the RAM disk.  I've never used my RAM disk to boot from.

 

But as I understand it, it has to be initialized with a ProDOS boot sector first, then you will copy all the files from the multiple 5.25 disks to the RAM disk, then reboot to the RAM disk (which now has all the same files on it as a single 800k floppy would).  I'm sure someone else can provide more detailed instructions, but this would be the process at a high level as I understand it.

 

 

Although, this begs the question.  What method are you using to get the 5 1/4 images on to real floppies?

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If you can get the files onto

If you can get the files onto 5.25” disks then it’s fairly easy

Go into your control panel and set the size of the RAMdisk.

Boot something like copy2plus and format the RAMdisk then copy the files onto it.

Go back into your control panel and set startup to RAMdisk

Then do an Apple-Control-Reset and you’re booting off the RAMdisk.

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Thanks guys, Not the work

Thanks guys, Not the work around I hoped for but certainly better than nothing and at least I can get some use out of the SSD card.

 

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I have no clue why you want

I have no clue why you want to do this. What is your immediate goal?

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Timelord wrote:I have no clue
Timelord wrote:

I have no clue why you want to do this. What is your immediate goal?

Says in the first post. No 3.5" drive and the price of 3.5" drives online is really cost prohibitive.

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I know everyone's financial

I know everyone's financial situations are different, but IMO prices on 3.5" drives are not that bad.  On ebay I frequently see them for $40-$60 USD, with maybe another $10 shipping.  Especially when you consider the time savings and effort wasted in the long run of making all those 5.25" disks, just to copy them back to the ram drive every single time you want to boot the program.

 

Of course, in the long run the ultimate time saver would be a floppy Emu, which can be had as low as I think $110 USD, with no case.  you can add in a case and SD card for like $140 or so.  No copying anything to real media.  Certainly more expensive (alomst double a 3.5" drive), but a lot more flexible (and reliable than 30-40 year old media and drives).  Of course, I sort of miss the nostalgia factor of real disks/drives.

 

But to each their own.  What your time and effort is worth to you is different than mine or the next guy.

 

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nick3092 wrote:I know
nick3092 wrote:

I know everyone's financial situations are different, but IMO prices on 3.5" drives are not that bad.  On ebay I frequently see them for $40-$60 USD, with maybe another $10 shipping.  Especially when you consider the time savings and effort wasted in the long run of making all those 5.25" disks, just to copy them back to the ram drive every single time you want to boot the program.

 Sure you can get lucky and find them for $40. But on average I see them all the time for $75.00 plus shipping.

 

I also have a floppy EMU but its not a sure fire replacement for me. I have HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of 5.25" floppies. I actually might have 50 3.5" floppies if I am lucky. Regardless $75.00 to $100+ is cost prohibitive. And Time and Effort? Its a hobby thats the fun of it! I dont mind in the slightest!

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Verault wrote:Timelord wrote
Verault wrote:
Timelord wrote:

I have no clue why you want to do this. What is your immediate goal?

Says in the first post. No 3.5" drive and the price of 3.5" drives online is really cost prohibitive.

 

Sure, but that doesn't define an explcit end goal. If it is just for file access, then aye, you can do this, but I cannot think of any commercial softare that came on 800K media that could be split up. In fact, a lot of it required two attached 800K drives, to work at all. You certainly cannot split up GS/OS to boot that way, and if you have multiple ProDOS volumes with the same label attached, you will either get OS errors, or you will have data corruption, so that isn't a solution. 

 

Tetris is one of the few titles that I can name that came on 800K media for the //e, that would happily live on 5.25 media, but it was sold on both, and depending on if it detected a //gs or not, the 800K version played music. 

 

http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_apple.html

 

If you want a fairly priced refurbished drive, contact Herb Johnson. Ask for an 800k drive with an eject button. In poor cosmetic condition, he sells them at a reasonable price, and they will actually work, unlike the 1:10 drives on eBay that wll work for every ten that you buy, at an inflated price. Drives sold on eBay are at best a lottery. If you buy a known bad drive, and want to refurbish it, you can also go that route, but success is not guaranteed. Various components on these drive can fail and you may end up with a most costly project than buying a known working drive. 

 

The following are the known faults on these mechanisms:

Springloaded mechanism lubrication is dry. Strip and re-lubricate.

Lubrication on eject cog has eroded it: Strip clean cogs, replace with new cog, and relubricate. 

Drive eject motor is dead: Replace motor.

Drive analgue spindle motor is bad: Replace analogue board.

Drive analogue board is bad: Isolate defective components or replace analogue board.

Drive disk window sensor is bad: Clean or replace sensor.

Drive head does not read: Head may be dirty, or spring mechanism has been bent. Clean head, adjust spring so that tension is correct, or replace head. 

 

Without having a mechanism in your hands, unless every aspect has been tested, any of of these faults can become a timesink, or a money pit. Years ago one of my tasks was to refurbish SONY 51 and 75 series mechanisms, and at that time, the most common faults were the analogue board, head tension, and eject motor, and at that time (eary to mid 1990s), those parts remained plentiful. 

 

I have a stack of 3.5 drive mechs, that I need to go through, to this day.

 

If you order a drive: Be sure that it has an eject button. Never attempt to use the models that lack this, as they can have different circuitry that can blow the IWM.

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You are absolutely right

You are absolutely right about the ebay drives being a complete gamble.. Its so true.

 

You know i reached out to herb johnson years ago to buy something. Forget what though. I can reach out again.

 

Thank you for all the great info.

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