Trouble with colour monitor on the Apple IIe

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Trouble with colour monitor on the Apple IIe

Hello,I'm trying to make the following parts work together, it's my understanding that they should but I'm not having much luck. The parts are:

 

  • Apple Color Composite Monitor IIe  (Model A2M6021X)
  • Apple Extended 80-Column Colour Card (Model A661-91097)
  • Apple IIe Enhanced PAL (Model 607-288-B)

This machine works fine with a monochrome monitor and when I plug the Apple Color Monitor into the on board RCA I get a back and white signal, which is to be expected. However when I plug the Apple Color Monitor into the RCA on the Extended 80 Column Colour card I get no signal. Is there a jumper I need to set or something else I need to do to get this to work? The board is installed in Slot 3 and I have tried reseating it.

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Are you typing PR#3 ?

Are you typing PR#3 ?

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CVT wrote:Are you typing PR#3
CVT wrote:

Are you typing PR#3 ?

I didn't know I had to do that, I connected a monochrome monitor to the on board RCA and tried. So I had both monitors connected at the same time (Color monitor to the card RCA and the monochrome to the onboard RCA). When I did the monochrome monitor went into 80 column mode, but the color monitor did nothing.

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Does the position of the

Does the position of the COLOUR switch make any difference?

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Something is wrong

Hello,

The video signal should be here anytime on the card. If you own a multimeter, you can check the resistance of the L2 component, it should be next to 0 ohm. If it's open, you can temporarily replace it with a wire.

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CVT wrote:Does the position
CVT wrote:

Does the position of the COLOUR switch make any difference?

 [[{"fid":"35235","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","alignment":"","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":false,"field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":false},"link_text":null,"type":"media","field_deltas":{"1":{"format":"default","alignment":"","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":false,"fiel

 

If the Colour monitor is plugged into the Extended 80 Column Card RCA:No difference unfortunately. This does not make the monitor show a picture.If the Colour monitor is plugged into the motherboard RCA:The picture remains in black and white but looks a little sharper in one mode.

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amauget wrote:Hello,The video
amauget wrote:

Hello,

The video signal should be here anytime on the card. If you own a multimeter, you can check the resistance of the L2 component, it should be next to 0 ohm. If it's open, you can temporarily replace it with a wire.

 

So L2 is the resistor near the top/rear of the board. It measures 0.7 ohms. I did note that it goes to a pin on this UX9 connector that doesn't seem to connect to anything.

 

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Found someone else with a

Found someone else with a similar issue!

https://comp.sys.apple2.narkive.com/l12ITFPe/australian-aiie-80col-64k-memory-expansion-and-video-card

 

OK, maybe it won't work.

 

It's not an RF output - these cards were shipped with pre-platinum IIe'swhen customers bought the AppleColor Composite monitor - for some reasonthe video output on the European motherboard produced the 'wrong' colourson that monitor, although exactly why this is I cannot tell you.This card corrected the problem, and produced a nice video output - thebest I've seen on a non-RGB equipped Apple II.The problem went away when the platinum IIe was introduced, as this machinesimply produced a 50hz NTSC signal like the IIc did which the AppleColor monitoraccepts just fine, and the card disappeared into oblivion.

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Now it's clear

Thanks for the picture. The card miss the UX9 component (see below). It's a custom one so you won't be able to replace it the easy way.

 

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With all this in mind, is

With all this in mind, is there another solution to provide an RCA output for a PAL IIe that would work on the Apple Composite Color Monitor? Like a new card?

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To get color from the

To get color from the compostite TV output you should use a PAL monitor/TV set. 

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Cynicide wrote:With all this
Cynicide wrote:

With all this in mind, is there another solution to provide an RCA output for a PAL IIe that would work on the Apple Composite Color Monitor? Like a new card?

 

A2M6021X: 240V 'International NTSC-50' model for the southern hemisphere

 

This is a NTSC-50 monitor. It's pretty useful if you want to get color from an Apple II Europlus or Pravetz 82 - all you have to do is change the crystal to 14.31818 MHz with a 5-45 pF trimmer cap in series. But you won't be able to use it for color with an Apple IIe, because the IIe has a regular PAL video output.

 

Now there might be a way to change the crystal of the European Apple IIe with a 14.31818 MHz + trimmer cap in order to get NTSC-50 when the COLOUR switch is set to MONO, but I don't think anyone has tried it, again because this machine already has color through the PAL chip.

 

More monitor info here: http://www.cvxmelody.net/Platinum_Apple_IIe_varieties_and_AppleColor_monitor.htm

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CVT wrote:More monitor info
CVT wrote:
More monitor info here: http://www.cvxmelody.net/Platinum_Apple_IIe_varieties_and_AppleColor_monitor.htm

 

Yeah, I actually looked at this page. about a quater of the way down  under Screenshots from AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe (A2M6021X 240V NTSC-50 model) he says " or a  220-240V PAL Apple //e with Extended 80-Column Colour Card (A661-91097)" which is what I thought I had.

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This  simply must be an NTSC

This simply must be an NTSC 3.58 monitor more capable of synching at different framerates. But what is much more likely is that monitor to be tolerant to the 50 Hz  mains frequency which sometimes if different from the video framerate interferes badly and the effect is visually observed on screen by their resultant beating frequency.

 

@CVT Why are you adding trimmer capacitor in series to the quartz crystal? ;) There is no such approach in the original Apples. 

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Just a thought - did you

Just a thought - did you check the rectangular mono toggle button at the front panel of the Monitor?  With this button in COLOUR position and the PAL //e motherboard colour switch configured for MONO you should actually see some colour (NTSC) from the //e RCA jack, assuming the monitor isn't faulty.    But  even so, the colour palette will be mismatched (this is normal).  The A661 card is designed to address that issue but unless you can find one with intact UX9 component you won't make headway with this.  In the meantime you can test the colour functionality of the Monitor with other 50hz Apples i.e. the IIc, Europlus or platinum IIe ("Intl NTSC").   They will do colour in their stock, unmodified form (14.250 main oscillator) with this particular Monitor.  If you attach a regular TV you will likely see black & white or weird colour spectrum at best.

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ben23239 wrote:Just a thought
ben23239 wrote:

Just a thought - did you check the rectangular mono toggle button at the front panel of the Monitor? 

 

Yes, in both the onboard and the card based RCA. That button fascinated me as a kid!

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@retro_devices   "This simply

@retro_devices   "This simply must be an NTSC 3.58 monitor more capable of synching at different framerates."

These monitors aren't even compatible with 3.58 NTSC.  Different beast than the North American model.  Here is the video spec that they support:-

This is for the ColorMonitor IIe/IIc but same applies for the platinum-themed models that replaced them.

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 ben23239 wrote:These

 

ben23239 wrote:

These monitors aren't even compatible with 3.58 NTSC. 

Why did you claim this?

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ben23239 wrote:@retro_devices
ben23239 wrote:

@retro_devices   "This simply must be an NTSC 3.58 monitor more capable of synching at different framerates."

These monitors aren't even compatible with 3.58 NTSC.  Different beast than the North American model.  Here is the video spec that they support:-

[[{"fid":"39368","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","alignment":"","field_file_

Let me disappoint you -- these versions are almost alike ;) 

 

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retro_devices wrote:This
retro_devices wrote:

This simply must be an NTSC 3.58 monitor more capable of synching at different framerates. But what is much more likely is that monitor to be tolerant to the 50 Hz  mains frequency which sometimes if different from the video framerate interferes badly and the effect is visually observed on screen by their resultant beating frequency.

 

@CVT Why are you adding trimmer capacitor in series to the quartz crystal? ;) There is no such approach in the original Apples. 

 

All the credit has to go to Plamen's original post "Who painted my Pravetz green?". ;)

 

But now I am really curious if a PAL Apple IIe can't be modded to output NTSC-50 then the SW1 switch is set to MONO and PAL when set to COLOUR using the same approach as the Apple II Europlus and Pravetz 82. If that is possible, the author’s Apple monitor will show color. I am strongly tempted to try it, since I happen to have a PAL Apple IIe and monitor that supports NTSC-50 (a 14" JVC F-14EE), but I don't have any free time right now.

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@jeffmazur  Why did you claim

@jeffmazur  Why did you claim this?

It's widely known the Apple IIgs outputs a very standard NTSC 3.58, yet it will only do monochrome with this monitor (A2M6021X) - see example below.  Same deal with PAL (4.43) colour signal.  So this is in fact a highly specialized colour monitor that only caters to the 50Hz 8-bit Apples with their peculiar hybrid signal.

 

@CVT  I am strongly tempted to try it, since I happen to have a PAL Apple IIe and monitor that supports NTSC-50 (a 14" JVC F-14EE)

That's really interesting. When JVC and other monitor makers cite support for "NTSC-50" I assume they are referring to NTSC 3.58 @ 50Hz.

A lot of CRT TV's should be able to cope with that signal as well.

Apple's take on "NTSC-50" is NTSC 3.56 @ 50Hz, a pseudo-standard nobody else supports and which has even been described as a "travesty".  But it's not all bad news.  With correct matching monitor (in practice A2M6021X or one of the other -X models), you get a lovely colour picture, NTSC fringing and all, as Woz intended

 

 

 

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ben23239 wrote:...That's
ben23239 wrote:

...

That's really interesting. When JVC and other monitor makers cite support for "NTSC-50" I assume they are referring to NTSC 3.58 @ 50Hz.

A lot of CRT TV's should be able to cope with that signal as well.

...

 

Yes, NTSC-50 is simply NTSC 3.58 @ 50Hz, which is exactly what you get when you just replace the crystal with a 14.31818 MHz on an Apple II+ (14.31818 / 4 = 3.58). The JVC F-14EE doesn't say anywhere that it supports NTSC-50, but it does. A lot of other 14" TVs in Europe like the Sony Trinitrons actually don't, even though they support regular NTSC.

 

Here is Total Replay in NTSC-50 on that monitor:
 
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Very nice.  The Apple IIgs is

Very nice.  The Apple IIgs is also capable of NTSC 3.58 @ 50Hz.  Just hold down OPTION at startup and set system standards for 50 hertz.  Not sure I prefer the Apple IIgs "look" for hi-res graphics though.

Quite a few Asian Apple II clones exported to PAL markets have this combination of 14.31818 MHz and 50Hz as well, and will do easy colour with suitable TV/monitor

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Cynicide wrote:CVT wrote:More
Cynicide wrote:
CVT wrote:
More monitor info here: http://www.cvxmelody.net/Platinum_Apple_IIe_varieties_and_AppleColor_monitor.htm

 

Yeah, I actually looked at this page. about a quater of the way down  under Screensho

It should work, based upon this addendum I found to the card:

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