Hi everyone,I’m trying to transfer a few disk images to my Apple IIc using ADTpro. The bootstrapping process works fine, but whenever I select an option like (D)ir or (R)eceive in ADTpro, a "Host timeout" message appears immediately. I had read that USB-to-serial adapters using the Prolific PL2303 chip don't work very well for this, so I ordered one with an FTDI chip instead—but unfortunately, that hasn't changed the outcome. I’ve already tested both available baud rates.
I also read somewhere that very early Apple IIc motherboards have a timing issue with the serial port...? My motherboard is stamped "1983" (so it should be one of those early boards). There is also a 74LS161 chip installed on the board...
Does anyone have any other ideas on how to get the transfer via ADTpro working?
if the host is a macos machine, could be a directory access permissions issue on the host side. or you are using the tty.* ports and not the cu.* ports.
if the host is windows... :)
I tried it with two different Windows 11 Laptops and with a Raspberry Pi with Raspbian. All three had the same issue.
Would you elaborate more on this.
What do you mean ? You can select two different baud rates (19200 and 115200)... I tried both of them.
Is your server showing the "No activity / Connected" messages after start?
And what happens on server side, when the client requests a DIR?
Should look like the lower part of the picture.
Why does this editor not show the picture?
"No activity" should become "Request: directory contents"
"Connected" should become the active directory of the disk files
ADTPRO.jpg
It´s exactly like you showed in the picture. So, I assume the cable is definitely fine. During bootstrapping, data travels towards the IIc, and the DIR command from the IIc reaches the PC as well.
On which computer?
I’ve set the baud rate to the same value on both the IIc and the PC, if that’s what you mean.
What about the name, ownership or access-rights of the folder holding your disk images?
I can force the error, if the working dir set on server side does not exist or access to it is not allowed.
Did you check this?
That’s a point I’ve thought about, too... To completely rule out permission issues under Windows, it might make sense to share a FAT32-formatted USB drive via the ADTpro server... After all, if there are no permissions involved, they can’t cause any trouble.
At least it's worth a try. What you see in my example is a mapped network drive on my XigmaNAS server.
OK... I tried to start the ADT-Server including the disk folder from an FAT32 formattet USB Stick, but this changed nothing. I also tried to rename one of the .dsk files to ADTPRO.DSK and tried to (R)ecieve this file by entering the filename on the IIc side. Suprisingly the Datatransfer starts for the first time, but stops in the same second at Block 00002. The interesting thing is, that I can start the Transfer every time in that way and it stops everytime at block 00002. I think for a bad connection or something this is a bit to uniform...
I'm following, too. I am having the almost same issue using Windows 7 on a Dell Netbook trying to connect to my IIc.
What PC are you using? What Windows version?
Two Windows 11 Laptops and a Raspberry with Raspbian.
Good morning and hello again,
any news about your problem?
I have some questions:
What java version are you using, do you have an "JRE or JDK" environment installed?
What is version of "slf4j" and "jssc" (check folder "lib" in ADTPRO folder)?
What ADTPro version?
Would you paste a copy of your adtpro.bat?
Here's a copy of mine:
@echo off
set ADTPRO_HOME=D:\Apple-II\APPLE-II ADTPro\
rem set MY_JAVA_HOME=C:\"Program Files"\Java\jre1.8.0_351\bin\
rem set MY_JAVA_HOME=C:\"Program Files"\Java\jdk-11.0.2\bin\
rem set MY_JAVA_HOME=C:\"Program Files"\Java\jdk-12.0.2\bin\
rem set MY_JAVA_HOME=c:\"Program Files"\Java\jdk-20.0.1\bin\
set MY_JAVA_HOME=c:\"Program Files"\Java\jdk-21.0.1\bin\
:start
CD "%ADTPRO_HOME%"
start /min %MY_JAVA_HOME%java -Xms128m -Xmx256m %ADTPRO_EXTRA_JAVA_PARMS% -cp "%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\ADTPro-2.1.0.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\AppleCommander\AppleCommander-1.3.5.13-ac.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\jssc\jssc-2.9.6.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\jssc\slf4j-nop-2.0.12.jar" org.adtpro.ADTPro %*
** This editor drives me crazy **
It´s the Version 2.1.0 which you can download from the github releases page. All files are totally stock as i had downloaded from there... No editing in the adtpro.bat from my side. I allready tried with Java 32 and 64bit, both jre-8u503.
The adtpro.bat looks like this:
@echo off
REM
REM ADTPro - Windows startup batch file
REM
REM Note:
REM Invoke with the name of the communications button to push
REM in order to start with that mode active (i.e. 'adtpro ethernet')
SET ADTPRO_HOME=%CD%\
REM You can set two variables here:
REM 1. %JAVA_HOME% - to pick a particular java to run under
REM 2. %ADTPRO_HOME% - to say where you installed ADTPro
REM
REM e.g. uncomment (remove the "REM" from in front of) and
REM customize the following SET statements.
REM Note: They must have a trailing backslash as in the examples!
REM
REM SET ADTPRO_HOME=C:\src\workspace\35\adtpro\build\
REM SET MY_JAVA_HOME=C:\Progra~1\IBM\Java142\bin\
:start
CD "%ADTPRO_HOME%"
start /min %MY_JAVA_HOME%java -Xms128m -Xmx256m %ADTPRO_EXTRA_JAVA_PARMS% -cp "%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\ADTPro-2.1.0.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\AppleCommander\AppleCommander-1.3.5.13-ac.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\jssc\jssc-2.9.2.jar";"%ADTPRO_HOME%lib\jssc\slf4j-nop-1.7.9.jar" org.adtpro.ADTPro %*
What is the response if you open a command-line-interface and type the command "java -version" ?
Does it show the version 8u503 ?
It shows:
java version "1.8.0_503"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_503-b01)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.503-b01, Mixed mode, Sharing)
@tiktok4321 What Model is your IIc ? Mine is a German PAL machine. I use ROM4x in it.
I'm using APPLE II+ and APPLE //e , and both are working fine.
... German PAL ... , are you also located in GERMANY ?
Also i'm running out of ideas! Have you ever tried to start a terminal program on both machines, to see if you can sent some text in both directions ?
Yes, I'm from Germany (Duisburg).
I have no Terminal program for the IIc... I could transfer one with ADTpro... Ohhh... ;D
Oh, also NRW ! I live in Wilnsdorf, near Siegen.
there is a file called CableArt.txt here:
https://github.com/ADTPro/adtpro/tree/main/doc
it shows the cable configuration for some APPLE types, it seems that some bridges are required on APPLE side as well as on the DB9 connector.
I think the section with the DIN5 connector should be valid for your IIc.
Do you have a multimeter available to check the cable connections?
Another idea is:
Is hardware handshaking disabled on the USB-serial port?
I"ve build the cable from that instructions including the bridges. Hardware handshake is switched off in PC side in the config of the USB to serial adapter.
If it was me, I would have:
1. Started PUTTY or other terminal program on windows PC and tried IN#2 "console" on Apple2c side to see if all typed characters reach the opposite sides;
2. Tried to use a winxp/win7 PC with possibly non-USB RS232 port for tests.
That's a good point!
On my APPLE II+ with SSC i can do following:
Boot a standard DOS33 disk (ProDos -> BASIC.SYSTEM also works)
IN#2
PR#2
Start a terminal program on PC (i use TeraTerm) with parameters 4800/7/n/1 and open the port.
I can remotely control my APPLE and execute commands from the PC like LIST, CATALOG or RUN simple basic program.
The APPLE screen is exactly mirrored in the terminal window.
Comm-parameters may be different on your IIc, you may need to try out some values.
OK, I tried this with a 9600baud connection and it worked. Then I tried it with a 19200baud connection and this worked, too. So I think the Adapter and the cable are both fine.
Yes, that's true. Connection seems to be OK!
But, to be onnest, i do not have anymore useful ideas ... :-(
Windows and RS232 make for a terrible combination.I had a similar issue with data transfer—despite numerous attempts, transmission errors kept occurring.I didn't manage to solve the problem completely, but the error rate dropped significantly after I closed unnecessary applications and set a higher priority for the data transfer program in Windows Task Manager.You could also try maximizing the I/O buffer settings for the COM port.
Good luck. ;)
Ooops, what went wrong there ...?
I'm using serial lines since the 80's on different machines and Windows versions, up to todays W11pro, and never encountered any serious problems, except wrong configured or broken cables.
Are you ready for an adventure?
If so, download 'com0com' and 'AppleWin'.
com0com is a nullmodem emulator
AppleWin is an Apple emulator
https://sourceforge.net/projects/com0com/
https://github.com/AppleWin/AppleWin/tree/v1.31.0.0
In com0com create a nullmodem cable like this.
com0com.jpg
Start AppleWin and connect it to your ADTPro server using the virtual cable:
AppleWin-conf.jpg
If the virtual Apple can connect to your ADTPro server, the server should be running fine and your problem seems to be your IIc (or cable).
I did the test on:
Windows 11 Pro
Version 23H2
Build 22631.6199
It's running fine.
OK, this Test only shows, that ADTpro runs in general, but hast nothing to do with my IIc Hardware...
OK, I’ve checked a few things with my oscilloscope. It seems the MMU is receiving the signal to switch to Aux RAM, but the switch doesn't actually happen, and it just keeps using Main RAM. I’m borrowing a second IIc in a few days to test a few things, but I think I should start looking for a replacement MMU. Does anyone have any ideas on the best place to get one with cheap shipping to Germany?
What happens if you type PR#3 and press [Return] after power on?
Oddly enough, the 80-character mode works completely normally—as can be seen on the oscilloscope—but during an Aux RAM test, for example, the scope display suggests that only Main RAM is being used.
Why do you think ADTPro needs AUX RAM at all?
That sort of came out of the issue I opened on the ADTpro GitHub page... Link
Ii looks your apple //c is fine, so far, except I don't like that 4X ROM replacement in it, and I am unaware what other mods are there in. If you continue messing with it most likely you will damage it. Change your PC entirely -- use older windows just for a test om different PC with non USB COM port. I am not going to repeat that advice for the third time, and I am not surprised Germany became the motor of inflation of the EU.
Have you tried setting the priority for ADTpro to "High" or "Real-time" in Windows ?
I’d certainly like it to work, but I can't imagine that everything is okay with my Apple IIc. ADTpro simply refuses to work, and I can't use any ProDOS disks either (Relocation/Configuration Error). I’ve already tried using different computers as ADTpro Server. Two running Windows 11 and one Raspberry Pi running Raspbian, but the error is exactly the same with all three. I even tried setting the process priority higher, but that didn't make any difference.As for the IIc's modifications... It has a ROM 4X and the mods Apple later implemented at the factory like replacing the 74LS161 with a crystal oscillator.
Edit: I just reverted the ROM4x modification as a test and reinstalled the original 255 ROM; that didn't change anything regarding the problems, either.
But the common thing among all your PCs and RPi is ....the USB to serial converter, right? You are constantly deviating from advices given here, so you must face reluctance of others to help. By the way, diskettes written off-platform, especially with Greaze...whatever this toy is, in most cases can't be reliable. The error you are facing with ProDOS can simply be caused by bad data written on the diskette, by bad diskette itself, by a dirty head of the DISK II drive, etc., etc. Find another apple2 if you are so convinced your //c has a hardware problem to prove it. Take your RPi or win11 (a disgusting OS -- deserves only to be pirated) laptop and the rest of the setup and visit a friend, see the results with their apple2. But even then this won't prove with absolute certainty your //c has a hardware fault, knowing these Asian USB converters and the humble voltage levels they reach (way below +- 12V regular RS232 signals) with their step-up converters. If you can, it is a good idea to measure the amplitude with your scope of the //c output RS232 signals while some communication is ongoing to rule out a possible partial problem with the //c output 1488 buffers, or their +-12V power supply rails.
No, it isn't always the same USB converter. As I mentioned earlier, I tested it with a converter using an FTDI chip and one using a Prolific PL2303 chip. Unfortunately, I don't have any devices that still feature a classic RS232 port.
What are the advices that I am constantly deviating from...? I don't know, but maybe you could Tell me ?
The ProDOS Disks are not made with the Greaseweazle. These are Disks which are made with another IIc (no, I don't have this other IIc here). And the problem only occurs with ProDOS disks. AppleDOS disks load without any issues... it would be strange if a dirty head were the cause.
I'll get another IIc for Testing in a few days (maybe until Weekend).
Regarding the USB-to-serial adapters again... did you read posts #27 and #28? After all, communication works in both directions.
Yes, I read them, the advice for these tests was mine. Still this is insufficient to draw conclusion, especially considering there was no answer what exactly did you do , and how many chars were exchanged between computers. ProDOS is more susceptable to media errors, especially in that part of the booting process, nothing but the Greazexxxx in the booting process where the problems may exist with the media/drive is to be excluded according to your statement. Yes, to your surprise, a dirty head and bad media can lead to a situation where some diskettes are read, others - not. Treat the diskette recording and drives as an analogue data/devices, not purely digital.
Of course, that isn't a large number of characters transmitted via the serial interface during this remote-control session... on the other hand, given that image transfer via ADTpro always aborts right at block 2—and even the directory retrieval fails—the number of characters transmitted in this instance likely wasn't much higher.
I have already thoroughly cleaned the drive (including the head) and re-lubricated it. Initially, the drive did indeed have reading issues (sometimes failing to recognize disks), but this was resolved by adjusting the rotational speed.
Okay, here is a quick test that an AI created for me, since I unfortunately can't program myself. What does the test do? It writes the value AA to a memory location in Main RAM and then writes the value 55 to the corresponding location in Aux RAM. Afterward, both memory locations are read back and displayed. My result is 55 55, which means the switch from Main to Aux RAM isn't happening. As I mentioned, an AI wrote this program... so it would be great if someone could enter it into the Monitor (call-151) on their IIc.
60: 2C 04 C0 A9 AA 8D 00 60 2C 05 C0 A9 55 8D 00 60 2C 04 C0 2C 02 C0 AD 00 60 85 70 2C 03 C0 AD 00 60 85 71 2C 02 C0 60
300: 20 60 00 A5 70 20 DA FD A9 A0 20 ED FD A5 71 20 DA FD 60
Then start it with 300G.
Hi Snocksman. My IIc is the regular US based A2S4000. I, too, have a ROM 4x in it.
Have you tried the little program i mentioned above ? Would be very interesting...
You can try it yourself in an AppleWin emulator on your windows 11 PCs.