iBook G3 700 mhz CD upgrade to combo-drive trouble

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iBook G3 700 mhz CD upgrade to combo-drive trouble

I have an IBook G3 700 Mhz with a build in CD-drive. I just purchased a combo-drive from ebay. This drive comes originally from IBook G3 500 mhz ( It has Apple-sticker on it and it is a Toshiba SD-R2212, which is the recommended drive for this according to www.pbfixit.com.

so I figured that it would work just fine. The trouble is that my Ibook doesn¨t even boot with this combodrive. I even tried with another newer apple combo-drive (Sony CW-8124-C) from an Ibook G4. Same problem - no booting at all.
The computer just flashes this happy apple-face and a questionmark.

So what am I doing wrong ?
Does the CD-rom ribbon-cable only allow CD-roms and not dvd and CD-r?
I realized that the CD-rom-cable does not have wire from each pin on the ide-plug. so maybe that is the trouble.

Jakob

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master / slave?

im not sure, but the first thing i would check would be what the drive you have now is set to, versus what the drive you removed is set too.

im not sure what the settings are for this machine, and i could be sending you the completely wrong way (if i am, someone will correct me very soon... that is the beauty of the 'Fritter Smile )

i believe that with the iBook both the hard drive and the cd drive are on the same IDE channel and that the hard drive is master and the cd drive is slave.

If perhaps your hard drive and CD Drive are both set to master then you would run into a conflict where the system wont boot.

like i said, im not positive that this is your issiue, but i feel that it would be a good place to check, at least initially.

/Bill

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master/slave

The old CD-drive has a jumper, that was as far as I remember set to "slave". The new combo-drive has no jumper, but there is written "slave" on the drive.

The harddrive I don´t know how to see, what it is set to. But in the apple systemprofile it has ID=0, where as the CD-rom drive has ID=1.

The Ibook has only one IDE channel

Jakob

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well...

ID=0 means primary (or master) and ID=1 means seconday (or slave) so... i guess that is not your problem. My apologies for not being able to help you out more.

/Bill

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if it's not booting, i'm will

if it's not booting, i'm willing to bet you missed something when putting it back together. my dead one took over two hours to part out because of all the screws and connectors, so you never know.

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PowerManager and PRAM

did you reset those?

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PowerManager/ Pram

No I didn´t reset anything. It´s sounds like I should have done that.
How do I do that and what is "powermanager" ?

Jakob

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resetting

Ok. now I resetted Pram an PM. both of them twice and still the same problem.
I am really starting to think that it could be the cable.
It says on the cable: "to mainboard"- "to harddrive"- "to cd-rom" and there is not as many connections to the cd-rom than there is to the harddrive.
So maybe this is an apple -gimmick that goes like: Buy a new cable that supports dvd and cd-r.
Like in the old days where you couldn´t use a normal mini-jack for the "sound-in" on the pre-G3 Powermacs, but had to purchase a special one from apple.

Jakob

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it's a standard IDE Cable

i am pretty sure that that is normal for the cable. Like my G3, one of the lines is missing a segment in the dual drive cable (it's got a little piece not there in one of the lines) and apple says that that is normal. An optical drive is an optical drive. Apple doesn't make their own drives, they take a compatible one that someone else makes, puts their logo on it, and ships it out. There is nothing special about it. does the drive show up at all? or does it not show up?
Also, on the CD-Rom part, there should be a little brown connector at the end. if that fits into the CD/DVD/RW drive, then it's the right one. Apple doesn't limit their systems anymore. So, if they had a blu-ray drive for my laptop, i could just throw it in there (the matter would be of course if the software I have supports it) it's all ATAPI (until it turns to SATA)

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Re: iBook G3 700 mhz CD upgrade to combo-drive trouble

so I figured that it would work just fine. The trouble is that my Ibook doesn¨t even boot with this combodrive. I even tried with another newer apple combo-drive (Sony CW-8124-C) from an Ibook G4. Same problem - no booting at all.
The computer just flashes this happy apple-face and a questionmark.

Jakob


That means it can't find a boot drive. I bet the cable came loose from the HD, or the connection to the motherboard is damaged.

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The thing is that I tried to

The thing is that I tried to install the old drive again to make shure the computer still works. And it works. So I am pretty shure everything is connected right.
(Tried reinstall the system osx 10.2 and also 10.3 and tried to boot from all the drives in each of the osx-systems). I even tried to disconnect the dvd-drive during boot resulting in a succesfull boot, just without any dvd-drive attached.

Maybe it could be the firmware. In that case I would be in deep trouble. I could of course flash the drive from a pc or something like that.

Still hoping for help

Jakob

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ok so now I learned something

ok so now I learned something new.
The ribbon cable that is conncted to the hard drive is allso working as a jumper (I read that somwwhere else on this forum). So every time you connect the harddrive the jumper settings is always apple´s own setting (not master, not slave and not cablesellect) Kind of weird though.
The only way around this is to cut out the end of the ribbon-plug(with a saw or sharp knife). After doing that you have the possibility to make your own jumper settings.

Thanks for all the support. I will post my results when I´m done

Jakob

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??????

that should be totally NOT required in any way......

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Check this out http://www.ma

Check this out
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060329123602853

I hope and think I am on the right track

Jakob

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same issue,,,? master/slkave

Hi...could use some help. I was trying to upgrade my mini G4 from a combo (mod CW-8123) to a super (UJ-845)drive..I couldn't get the superdrive to work...In fact, the mini won't boot with it in..its as if it is trying to boot from the superdrive maybe....get the folder and ? not the apple (use OS 10.3.9)..I also tried a few other combo drives I had lying around (also 8123 and they do the same thing). Are all these dirves bad? or is there some master/slave setting (didn't know there were on these) that is causing trouble or something else...The superdrive was bought used but the guy said it worked fine/was tested...the other drives I'm going to check in my ibook to see if they work there..but any ideas appreciated..I read an old post here that noted ibboks and minis have different default master slave settings...but I don't know how to change or set if that is the issue...help me please...
thanks, rick

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its not like a regular HD

these drives are not like a regular IDE drive where there is just a jumper to set. Both of you are having Master/slave problems... there MAY be something you can physically do for it... but...

that is why in this situation (when the Mac has a LAPTOP drive i.e. manc mini, mac laptops, and imacs) you really really have to be sure you know what to buy

Now, as far as the Mac Mini... The laptop style drives for our Macs that are available from OWC cost +/- 5 to 10 percent above what you would find them for wholesale... and are shipped safely and quickly to you, and guaranteed to work.... and yes even though PHYSICALLY the drive from a G5 iMac fits in a mac mini... it wont work as the master/slave settings are different. In the G4 mac minis case, the removeable drive needs to be set (internally) to SLAVE.

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On the right drives & master or slave

Hi, and mostly in response to last not from 'evilrobot.' I do believe as well this is a master-slave problem and not with the drives I have...They are exactly the models (CW-8123, CW-8124,UJ-845C) that are used in Macs with Apple logo and all on them. But I do wonder if the letter number after the 8123 for example, like A or C, matters. I've been told it doesn't, but perhaps (maybe I'm reaching here) it relates to master - slave setting. I have been installing some of these in iBook Clamshells (I cut a nice slot in the bezel...works great) with no problem, but only ran into this with the mini...My mini currently works fine with the 8213A combo drive, but seems to be looking and can't ever find system when I try the 8123, 8124 combos or the 845 superdrive...Your last line says the removable drive needs to be set (internally) to SLAVE...which seems to make better sense than some advising to make the hard drive slave...so, and this is the question...how do you set the combo or superdrive to SLAVE, or does it have to be done at the factory....Or do I just use these drives in my modified clamshells where I suspect they will all work..I'll let you know....Thanks in advance for the answer to this queston:)...Rick

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ahh...

by internally, i meant in the firmware.

If it is a problem with the Mac Mini specifically... a quick workaround (although it makes start up take longer) is to remove the hard drive and set it as slave (effectivley swapping the drive order around [orig from factory on mini... slave for cd, master for hd... after putting the drives you have in and then jumpering the hd: slave for HD and master for CD)

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not sure, firmware?

Well, I'm back to just using the original combo drive in the mini..don't want to turn the hard drive into a slave...literally. Actually, it works quite fine and I burn dvds with external cd/dvdrw pleztor drive...was really just consiering the dvdrw drive in the mini since I had one, but was miffed when I tried to test this as well as other combo drives..Regarding other combos, I guess the letter after the 8123 (A, B or C) may signify different settings...for example the A came and works in my mini, the Cs do not (is A set as Master and Cs Slave maybe?...just curious if you know...since you know more on this than I have found anywhere (3 forums so far:)...thanks for help...I'll use the drives in iBook clamshells where I don't believe it matters (correct?). When you say 'internally....the firmware' do you mean firmware that can be upgraded or changed in the mini motherboard (?) or in the drive(?) or just the way it is that cannot be changed...I'm learning about this here, so thanks much....rick

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please refer to your original post

rickame, please look at your original post here:

http://www.applefritter.com/node/20429

where i believe that i answered most of your questions...

but, to recap, in this case when i say firmware, i mean the firmware of the dvd/cdrw drive itself, not the openfirmware of the mac. also... im not sure if the A, B, or C designation has anyhing to do with it (it might, i just dont know)

The matter at hand is wheter or not the drive is master or slave, and which setting anyones particular system needs.

in YOUR specific case, the G4 Mac Mini has 1 IDE channel that both the optical drive and the hard drive are connected to, with the hard drive being set to master and the optical drive set to slave.

If you connect an optical drive that is set to MASTER on the same channel as a hard drive which is ALSO set to MASTER a conflict will arise and the machine will not boot....

so, given that situation (specific to the Mac Mini, some iMacs I have heard DO NOT respond to this...) you either need to get the optical drive set to SLAVE (kind of a challange) or leave the optical drive set to MASTER and change the Hard Drive to SLAVE (really easy, just a jumper... if you decide to do this the diagram for the jumper settings should be on top of the drive.)

As far as flashing the firmware (wheter it be from master to slave, or vice versa) you will need to have a PC to do the flash from, and an adapter board to connect the notebook drive to a standard PC IDE connector (available from a company called SLC, i believe that is their name, for about $6.00 US plus shipping... google is your friend)

The utilities and required firmware for the drives should in most cases be able to be found by followind the links that I have posted in rickame's thread.

http://www.applefritter.com/node/20429

/Bill

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thanks...last request on this...

Sorry about two threads...I do think I now understand...thanks for best answers here (other forums like apple and macrumors...no such luck:)..do you know if the drive letter like A B or C a the end has anything to do with whether it is master or slave from factory? What I'm getting at, if you buy a used drive, is there anyway to know if it is master or slave set, as I'd want the latter for use in mini. And really finally, if I wanted to upgrade to superdrive for mini, what drive do you recommend:)
Rick

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for the mini..

i would really just recomennd going to OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Panasonic/MMINISL8XDL/)

and purchasing their upgrade superdrive for the Mac Mini for $99.00

It would be brand new, guaranteed to work, and OWC is a great company to deal with. Super fast shpping and ive never had a problem with them.

also, powerbook g4 drives will work.

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