I'm new to the Applefritter forums, and I thought I'd post my goal on this website to see if anyone can help me out.
I am an aspiring Apple Lisa collector and restorer. Earlier this year, I bought 3 Lisa 2s, and now one of them works (I also own 3 ProFile drives, 1 keyboard, 1 Lisa mouse, and a non-working SunRem 20MB hard drive). The other two are suffering from corrosion damage, and are still getting fixed.
My ultimate goal is to convert one of my Lisa 2's back to a Lisa 1 (two of my Lisa 2s were originally Lisa 1s). I realize this is a very difficult endeavor, but I want to make it work nevertheless. My upgraded Lisa 1s are fairly low serial number models (#668 and #730), and I would like to bring another Lisa 1 back into the Apple collecting world.
I am looking for these items for my Lisa collection, working or non-working:
Keyboards and Mice
Boxes for anything Lisa
I am also looking for the materials to downgrade a Lisa 2 back to a Lisa 1, namely:
Lisa 1 faceplates
Twiggy drives and disks (Even one drive would do, working or not)
A set of "D" ROMs
If anyone has any of these parts, or any other parts that pertain to the Apple Lisa that they want to sell, please contact me. I'm looking forward to possibly reviving a Lisa 1, and I would be thrilled to add one to my collection. Also, once my other Lisa 2s are fixed, they will be sold on eBay; keep an eye out.
Please contact me with any items you may have, and a ballpark number you're thinking for the price. I'll respond to any offers and try to be fair. I look forward to doing business with some of you!
My eyes might have been fooling me, but I think I did see D ROMs on ebay recently. In the last month or two. Can't find any record of them now though.
I'm curious as to how you determined yours were originally Lisa 1s? Does the serial number start with B? I've been wondering if mine was a 1 originally -- has the 1 drive cage, but I don't think the 1 motherboard (no notch for the mouse). The case now has a MacXL part number and the serial starts with A, but the applenet number and production date are within a few hundred of a few known Lisa 1's I've tracked down on the web.
Good luck on the Twiggys. The last time I saw one for sale was on ebay 10+ years ago. And it went for a tidy sum. I wouldn't hold out on it, unless you'd like to join me on a little.. ahem.. archaeological dig.. in Logan, Utah (although I think those are all 2's the buried there).
I did see some D ROMs on eBay as well, sold by vintagemicros. I might invest in those, we'll see. I think they're still active.
I determined my Lisa models by many methods. First of all, two of my models have serial numbers that start with B, and they have the 1 motherboard (with the notched mouse). My third Lisa is a genuine Lisa 2. As for determining age, this information might be useful to you. The AppleNet numbers started with 00100001, and go up consecutively from there with every Lisa made. My 3 AppleNet numbers, for example, are 00100740 (#740, I realized I made a typo earlier with this one), 00100668 (#668), and 00110858 (#10858). The "manufactured" number on the Lisa will tell you the date that that specific computer rolled off of the assembly line. If you have a 5 number code, the first two numbers will be the year; if you have a 4 number code, the first number will be the year. The next 3 numbers will be the day of that year that the Lisa was made. For example, one of my upgraded Lisa 1s has manufactured date 83080, translating to the 80th day of 1983, or a production date of March 21, 1983. The Lisa 2 has a manufactured date of 4193, translating to the 193rd day of 1984, or a production date of July 11, 1984. I hope this helps you out with identifying your Lisa model. If you want, post all of your Lisa numbers on here and I can give them an analysis for you.
Yeah, finding a twiggy drive is going to be a difficult endeavor, to be sure. I'd probably settle for owning a disk, just for history's sake. Still, if anyone out there's got a box of parts, even, from a Lisa 1, contact me and let me know. I might have to take you up on that archaeological dig
Even just finding the faceplate would be interesting. If I ever found one I could probably use my casting skills to recreate it. Not like I use the floppy anyway.
Here's the numbers off mine:
I'm guessing if yours still have the B serial numbers on them then Apple wasn't in a habit or reissuing the 'rebuilt' machines with different serials, etc. Unless maybe mine was a Lisa 1 that never left their inventory and was rebuilt before being shipped?
The model number stamped on the bottom corresponds to Mac XL. I just found it interesting that it had, according to my sources, a Lisa 1 drive cage with the special adapter required for the 3.5" drive, including the little standoffs that help raise it to the right height.
Are you experienced in 3D modeling? It would be cool to 3D print a front bezel.
Your Lisa 2 is #4316, manufactured on September 2, 1983. I don't believe that Apple ever changed the serial number when upgrading the machine. Normally dealers would perform the upgrade locally, and they wouldn't have had the ability to replace machines and serial numbers, I believe.
You bring up an interesting point about your Lisa maybe having been a 1 that never shipped and was upgraded. I've been told that there were around 11,000 Lisa 1s made before the 2 was released. My original Lisa 2 #10858 was made in July of 1984; there must have been some overlap with the AppleNet numbers, because I'm sure that Apple produced thousands of machines every few months, and they stopped making the Lisa 1 in the early days of 1984, if I remember correctly. Say the last Lisa 1 had an AppleNet number of 00111000. My Lisa 2, made half a year after the production of the 1 was halted, has a lower number than the supposed last Lisa 1. There must be some overlapping going on here. I'll do some more research.
I wasn't aware that there was a difference in the styles of the drive cages. Could you describe yours? Both of mine, from the 1s, have one solid wall, and one wall with slots in it, as well as a circle cut out on the bottom. Is this what yours looks like as well?
The special adaptor is the LisaLite card. It allowed the signals for the Twiggy drive controllers to interface with the 3.5" floppy drive upgrade. Apple left the connectors for the Twiggy drives in the Lisa until the Lisa 2/10. Basically, if your drive cage has two ribbon cables of the same width, you have either an upgraded Lisa 1 or a Lisa 2/5. If your cage has two cables of two different widths, you have a 2/10.
What do you mean by the "little standoffs that help raise it to the right height"?
Also, does your Lisa work? What peripherals do you have for it (keyboard, mouse, manuals, disks, Widget drive, ProFile drive)?
Mine is same. Solid wall on the left side, slots on the right I think. Have pictures of it. I was told this was a key difference because the Lisa 2 cage was different, having accommodation for the Widget drive and being designed from the outset for a 3.5" drive. Mine has holes that would support twiggys, the bottom holes and areas around them are scratched.. so I'm assuming something that was in there was taken out.
But who knows, the cage could have come from a parts computer somewhere.
The Lisa Lite card on mine is mounted lower than where I've seen it on many Lisa 2s. The whole way the drive was mounted seemed pretty ad hoc.
I think the key would be knowing when Lisa 1 production definitively stopped. I had thought 2 production didn't begin until 84 too, so in theory that would do the trick.
I did some more research on the dates for the Lisa. The Lisa 1 was introduced in January of 1983, and started to ship in June of that year. In January of 1984, the Lisa 2 was introduced. I don't have any more information than that, but I'd assume that once the Lisa 2 was introduced, no more 1s were made, and they probably sold off the rest of their 1 stock and moved on to 2s.
Okay so it's a fairly safe bet mine started out as a 1 then, but maybe was re-issued a different serial, maybe never actually made it into an owner's hands before being converted?
But I'm curious -- it has a Mac XL model number on the bottom of the case, opposite side of the serial sticker... they wouldn't have been offering the 'Mac XL' at that point yet, right? Maybe it went back again?
The Mac XL wasn't offered until 1985, if my sources were correct. Then again, a Mac XL is just a 2 that runs MacWorks, so maybe your model number is just for a 2? I'll do some more research on this point.
I don't believe that Apple would have re-assigned serial numbers in any case. Think about it... if the AppleNet numbers are designed to specifically number machines, if a machine was re-serialed, all of a sudden, an old AppleNet number would not correspond to any machine. Plus, the dealer would have no idea what number to assign the machine, due to the fact that machine were being constantly made. Your Lisa's number still intrigues me though...
Here's an idea: put your Lisa in Service Mode. When the memory is being tested, press the shift key. Then, try to boot up from a blank floppy drive, the Lisa will respond with an error. Then type Apple-S and you'll get to service mode. Click on "Display Mem". When prompted for "Address?", type 240, and click enter. When prompted for "Count?", type 20. You will then receive two lines of code. Copy them to this forum and I'll decode them for you. It should, when decoded, tell you the serial number and AppleNet number originally encoded to your CPU board, which should have not changed in the upgrading process. Maybe by looking at the serials for the CPU, we can discover what happened to your Lisa.
Okay here they are:
00000240 0F0F 0100 0804 0306 0500 0207 0200 0F0F
00000250 0000 0100 0809 0903 0006 0800 0000 0000
I decoded it myself
If I understand correctly it is:
Made in 84
365th day (Dec 30 -- 84 was a leap year)
Serial number: 2720 (which does not match the one on the case).
Now the serial number -- that isn't influenced by the ROMs, right? ie. if it had been earlier ROMs that were swapped out, that wouldn't change the serial for the CPU board?
Either way.. doesn't match the data on the case.. so it has been rebuilt in some way for sure.
Here's an interesting one.
It has the serial number that starts with B on the case, rather than A like mine. But, both the production date and applenet number fall *after* mine.
I decoded it myself today. Here's what I got.
Built in 1984, 365th day.
Serial number is 0272.
AppleNet number is 00108993, which places it at Lisa #8993.
You're right, it doesn't match the one on your case. Interesting. You may be right in thinking that the numbers would change from ROM to ROM, but I'm not entirely sure. I have an extra set of ROMs that I can maybe swap into my machine, and I can see if the numbers are the same.
Yeah.. very weird. The case im fairly confident was Lisa 1 at one point. I'm looking at pics of the io board on my phone here.. all the production dates are 83 or earlier. Do the chips in your Lisa 2 have any 84 date codes in them?
Looking at your post you seem to know a bit about working out dates of production for the Lisa, I have a lisa 1 but the serial number is 12725 that's it no A or B any idea's?