Apple ][ + gets put into machine learning when using Apple disk server

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Apple ][ + gets put into machine learning when using Apple disk server

when ever I try loading one of the programs on https://asciiexpress.net/diskserver/ the computer beeps and after a few seconds goes into machine learning mode. I tried muliple files and modes and all do the same thing.

I found some other cassete wav files on https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Software/Cassettes/ and I wanted to use the ram test but that one makes the computer not recognize any comands. Pressing return with any comand will just move down a line no matter what I type even after pressing ctr-reset. I get simmular problems with other programs instead it will say syntax error on line (something) but its different depending on the program. A lot of the programs that do this give a error right when the data starts coming. Some programs do work like Lemonade, Brians Theme, Penny arcade, Phone list.

I dont know if these problems are related but I would like to get them fixed as I just finished fixing the motherboad.

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AsciiExpress

Not really sure what the post above has to do with your issue...looks spammy to me.  But anyway, what type device are you using to access the files to stream to your computer's cassette port?  I have found if I try any of my Macbooks they give the same type issues you are seeing...regardless of their OSX version - although my oldest is a Mid-2012 unit, and it also doesn't work.  However, if I use my iPhone it works perfectly.  So I have an old iPhone 6 that isn't even activated as a phone anymore that I just leave connected to my IIe and use it whenever I want to pull up something from AsciiExpress.  They have a new GameClient disk that is nifty for that too - you load that program from floppy and then find the game you want and a QR code is presented on your Apple II screen then you use any of the free QR code readers from the app store to scan the code and it immediately loads the game from the iPhone.  However in your case you can't even get that far to make that floppy.  Try using a phone with the site - turned up to about 3/4 or 7/8 volume with all notifications and such disabled so that a random text or notification background noise doesn't mess up the transfer.  I have really good luck with it but had zero successes with Macbooks.  

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Still not working

Im using my windows 10 desktop. I also used my iphone 6 and tried it but its either too low and doesant get recognized or any louder I go into machine learning.

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8K or Hifi? - disk site or game site?

Interesting.  So its not the sending device necessarily.  I assume you've tried both the 8Kfi and the Hifi types - the 8kFi usually works with fewer errors for me.  Also are you trying the game site or the disk server site?  The Disk server site first tries to format a floppy (must be in slot 6 drive 1 - not changeable)  prior to downloading whereas the Gameserver side of the site just loads the game directly.  Do both sides of the site give you the same results?

 

http://asciiexpress.net/gameserver/

 

http://asciiexpress.net/diskserver/

 

 

 

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Clarifying format

Clarifying comment - the DiskServer side first tries to Format the disk in Slot 6 Drive 1 IF you choose the 8k or HiFi "Format" option...if you do not choose the format option then the disk you have in the floppy has to have been already formatted - and you need to know the correct format (DOS or ProDos) for the file/disk you are downloading...so I usually just use the Format version to play since I have no idea the native format of the disks on the site just by looking (usually).  Either way the disk needs to be in SLot 6 Drive 1 position since that is where the site tries to create the disk from.  The gameserver site just loads to memory and doesnt need the disk/drive

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Both dont work

I tried lofi and hifi for the games and it puts me into machine learning. I also tried all the options for the disk server.

I also dont know if my floppy drive works it is in slot 6 and it is drive 1 but its a vista drive conroller. I actually wanted to test to see if it works. When I turn the computer on it spins and keeps spinning till I hit reset which I rad is normal. But I wanted a program to test for shure the floppy works.

 

Also if theres missing E's its beacause this hp keyboard sucks.

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Cassette Port

Ok so by machine learning you mean the "monitor" prompt mode, right?  The asterisk prompt (*) is the "Monitor prompt".   Does the computer boot with any real disks or do you have any disks?  The Diskserver definitely needs a working floppy disk card in slot 6, and a real floppy drive with a floppy disk in drive 1, but the Game server side doesn't need the disk or drive.  Now some of the games on the site require 48k of Ram (or more), some even require an 80col card,  however "most" of the games are probably the 48 k types. Have you tried cleaning the Cassette input jack really well and have a really good quality 3.5mm patch cable?  Usually the monitor mode either means you have a RAM issue, OR a communication issue loading the file - static, noise, or an interruption from something mid-stream like a text message or notification alert on the phone.   

 

I do not have a II Plus, however from what another posted posted in a thread on here last year you can try this:

1. Get a basic prompt by pressing ctrl-reset at startup

2. Go to the monitor prompt (I think this is what you are calling the machine learning mode) Type "CALL -151" without the quotes - this should get you the asterisk prompt3. Type in the following code (don't forget the space between 34:14 and Return).

C050 C053 C054 C057 N 265:FF N 266<265.BFFEM 266<265.BFFEV 265:0 N 266<265.BFFEM 266<265.BFFEV 34:14 (Return)

 The Apple II will go to HGR mode and display white and dark graphic screen along with question marks and inverse @ characters at the bottom of the screen.If some RAM chips are bad, faulty addresses will be printed on the bottom of the screen.

 

(Here is the whole thread: https://www.applefritter.com/content/apple-ii-bad-memoryrom)

 

Try that and see what happens

 

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Solid @

I tried doing the code multiple times the first time it was all @ the second time all ? marks and now ? marks on the bottom 4 rows and all white on top then @ on the four bottom rows then black on top and a code gets printed out 3fff-00 (04) and it keps repeating (also when the patern changes my tv makes a wierd noise.)

Also I do have a 80 collum card I just dont have a swich to swich to it I have to make one. And a ram issue is posible since that was the original problem with the pc.

I also dont have any apple ][ boot disks to test. And I cleaned the conector no difference. 

And yes its the machine language monitor I must have heard something and just wrote what I heard.

 

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Pattern

Well looking at that other thread, those @ symbols and ? symbols are a normal part of the test, however if there are no errors found the test just loops continually.  However, if an error in RAM is found, it prints the location on the screen.  So sounds like maybe you have a bad ram chip at the 3fff location which  is: 

 

$2000 - $3FFF (8192 - 16383): High Resolution Graphics Page 1.  

 

This would make sense if anything you were attempting to load was calling the HRG mode...As to what RAM chip(s) that would be on a II+ I am not sure...but I believe it is in the lower 48 and not on the 80col/expansion card.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the II+ can chime in here for something more to test out.  Also if you're in the Facebook Apple II Enthusiasts group there are a lot of folks there who are great with RAM diagnosing...many of the people there are here too however. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Swapping RAM banks

Not sure if you've tried this, but you could always swap the third row of RAM chips with the 2nd row of ram chips, then run that code again and see if the error moves to a different location.  Likewise could move the 1st row with the 2nd row, test again, etc..  If the error moves around to different locations  then at least you know its a RAM chip.  I think you can actually run with only one row of chips (16K) in the 1st bank, however I doubt you would be able to access anything from the game server with only 16 or 32 K.  But you could put in one bank, run that test and see what happens, add another row and test again, etc.  You did mention the 80 col card you have...is it the kind with the flat ribbon cable that goes into the white socket to replace that last 16k chip?  And if you dont have the card inserted you did put a 16K chip back into that empty socket, right? Without the card in that socket there should be a 16K chip occupying it.   If you have the card inserted and its cable/pin occupies that white socket, then could be you need the card switched correctly too as that could be what is causing the issue. 

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My 80 collum card is a videx

My 80 collum card is a videx videoterm clone. But I do have a language card in the computer.  I will try moving the ram chips around.

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Different code

I left only the ram in the c row now the computer gives the code 3fff-00 (ff) and sometimes bcbf-ff (ff) its hard to tell for shure my camera wont focus pointing at a crt butthis is what I get now.

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No more ram codes

After cleaning the ram and resocketing it there are no longer codes that come up when I type the code in machine language monitor It also doesant go into language monitor when I load a disk server program it now does nothing. Sometimes it just puts a few question makrs under where I typed load.

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Other programs?

Well sounds like you're making progress.  What happens when you load one of the other site wav files - Lemonade, etc...do they run ok?  What if you type in some other simple basic program at the basic prompt and run it? Like the simple low-res Jumping jack program from page 32 here: https://archive.org/details/InCider198307/page/n29/mode/2up

 

The old Incider magazines have a lot of short simple programs you can type in at the basic prompt line by line, then run them, and that might help establish whether you have a communications issue or a computer issue.

 

 Where are you located?  If you were in NYC I have a ton of disks you could borrow to try.  Do you have a disk drive and controller installed? What happens if you remove those and then try something really basic from the Game service side of the asciiexpress site like asteroids?  

 

The Disk server side of the Ascii website requires you to have a disk drive and blank floppy inserted since it actually formats the floppy, then downloads and writes out the floppy to make a disk.  However the Game server side just loads the program to memory  http://asciiexpress.net/gameserver/

 

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Loading games

So I retsted the game lemonade and I also wrote the code on the link both worked. I ried loading lemonade from my laptop but that didnt work. And im located in montreal. also when I tested the game server I tested it with and without a drive controller. I looked online about disk controller clones in case it was the disk controller and I found this http://www.applelogic.org/PseudoDisk2.html but it didnt seem to have the files to make it.

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Pseudo Disk

Ah interesting.  So you have one of the SD Floppy emulators.  For that one it looks like you load it up with DSK images from your PC first, just by saving the DSK images as files to the SD card,  then move the SD card over to the card in the Apple.  It does say you will be presented with some method to choose which file to boot - and I would think this would be from the card's ROM presented onscreen since that card rests fully inside the case unlike some of the other floppy emulators which have a cable and you control them from the device itself.  That shouldn't really affect your ability to load WAV files through the cassette port however, but I don't think it would allow you to use the Disk Server side of the AsciiExpress site since it needs a real floppy disk II card and disk drive.  The Gamer server side, however just loads the file to memory and then once transferred says hit Return to boot the game.  

 

Regarding the SD Card peripheral...have you tried formatting an SD card using FAT on your windows computer and putting some DSK image files on it, then taking the card from the PC and inserting it into the Apple Pseudo Card slot and rebooting?  There are thousands of files on Asimov that you can download and try.  https://www.apple.asimov.net/images/

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I dont have a pseudo I wanted to make one

I dont have one of these I was saying I found this online and I was thinking of making one but I dont even know if its compatible with the apple ii plus it might be only for the iie

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SD EMU

AH, I misread.  Sorry.  Yes I have no idea about these since I kind of like the real floppy experience and also have a real 20MB SCSI hard drive for my IIe.  I don't use the floppies all that much as I dont play a lot of games, but every now and then will play one or if friends with kids come over they love to play the old games.  So you have a real floppy drive and regular disk II controller card in your II+?  If so, even without a disk in it, are you able to access it by doing a PR#6 from the Basic/Applesoft prompt - ie does it light up and try to spin even with no disk installed or does it light up and spin when you first turn the computer on as it searches for a bootable disk?

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Disk drive

The controller im using is from vista computers image here https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/Disk%20Drive%20Controllers/Vista%20Disk%20Controller/Photos/

The drive itself also has a vista floppy drive in it. When I turn on the computer it starts spinning makes a few clicking noises and just continues spinning untill I press reset same when I do pr#6 with or without a floppy nothing changes. I know theres nothing wrong with the drive since I found a old box of drives with the same conector that all do the same thing.

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Drive

Cool.  And yes that is the expected behavior without a bootable floppy in the drive.  They search forever and do not time out.  And I guess you don't actually have a bootable floppy anywhere to try...henace why you are attempting to get/make one from the Diskserver site where you can create DOS/Prodor even game or application disks over WAV.  So...if you do put a disk in the drive...and use the Diskserver side of the site...do you ever get anything drive-activity wise at all...like once the transfer starts before it actually formats the disk or downloads...normally when I use the Diskserver and choose the 8K Format file type, after getting the basic promot and typing Load and pressing return...then when I press Play on the file I first get a beep, then I get a screen saying something about a file formatter...then the drive spins up and starts.  Usually at this point is where if it breaks, it goes into the Monitor mode.  How far are you getting before it drops to the Monitor?

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Drive

After a few second running any program the computer beeps once then around ~11 ~12 seconds in the whole screen shifts up one line and beeps at the same time no error is displayed. No disk activity at all. And nothing else happends.

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Facebook Group

Are you on Facebook - I really recommend if so you join the Apple II Enthusiasts group.  I am so raw in the Apple II+ world that I really had hoped someone else might chime in here with ideas.  I think you probably have some sort of Ram or hardware related issue but since I don't have a II+ I dont reallty know where to help.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/5251478676 is the url.  

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ADT Pro Bootstrap

Since you have a Windows machine...have you thought of trying ADTpro and bootstrapping your Apple ii+ with a cable for force-loading a bootable program? You can use ADTpro on your Windows laptop and force boot-strap a disk image such as DOS or a diagnostic (AppleCillian, MECC Computer inspector, etc) which would allow it to run and diagnose any potential RAM or other issues all by using a cable and ADTPro on your host Windows machine.  I did that with my IIe when I first got it to check out hardware issues until I ordered a ProDOS disk and the subsequently discovered the various means to get everything else  for free.  

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ADT Pro

Well I tried adt pro first sending the prodos and then making it show the pro dos screen after sending adtpro over audio and starting it does nothing. The computer freezes after launching it.

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Prodos

Which version of ProDos did you send over?  The Apple II+ can only use Prodos 1.0 or 1.0.2 (with 48k RAM), or the new unofficial 2.4.2 with at least 64K RAM.  ProDos 1.1 and above (with the exception of the new unofficial 2.4.2) won't run on the II+ unless you have 64K, and the real Apple Prodos 2.0 has to have a IIe  65C02 processor.   So...make sure you only try ProDOS 1.0/1.0.2,  OR if you have 64K installed try 2.4.2.  Also try DOS 3.3 and see what it might do as well as maybe AppleCillian or the MECC Computer Inspector images as I think those are both DOS 3.3 based and should run. 

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Adtpro changing disks

How do I send over diferent disks I found A folder full of images But how do I download diferent versions. 

Edit: I actually found version 1.0.2 but if I wanted to send apple-cillin how do I do that.

Edit 2: Version 1.0.0 and 1.0.2 give a relocaion/ configuration error

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Bootstrapping/Relocation issue

The thing about Apple II disks is almost every one of them is self-booting except maybe data disks...so you should be able to do the bootstrap procedure with one of the other disks such as Applecillian or Computer Inspector or similar.  The relocation error does sound like something is off with RAM...ProDos attempts to relocate itself into the Language Card if one is available...so maybe the language card has been the culprit all along?  Have you tried bootstrapping with literally no cards in the system at all - including the language card? (Note if you remove the language card you will need to take the 16K chip off the card and stick it back into the white socket.

Also this site has about every disk ever made for the Apple II series: https://www.apple.asimov.net/images/

 

This one is also very handy for disks too: https://macgui.com/downloads/?cat_id=54

 

And finally this one which has a lot of the same from the other sites but also some new stuff: http://apple.rscott.org

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How do I bootstrap apple-cillin

I have a .dsk file of apple cillan I dont know if its the right type of file but how do I bootstrap it.

Edit: I did part 1 of pro dos and entered 2000g or something like that with no cards in and still got the error.

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Bootstrapping

Follow the Bare Metal instructions on the ADTPro site here: https://adtpro.com/bootstrapaudio.html

Oh edit I bet thats what you just tried.  Try it with the EsDOS instead of ProDOS...it looks like by default ADTPro tries to boostrap with Prodos 1.9 which probably won't work on your machine, especially with the language card removed or potentially faulty...

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Sending another disk

Im not sure you can send a disk image like Applecillian this way without an actual functioning Disk Drive or RAM drive greater than the size of the image file (140k)...normally you would send the ADT Pro Client over to the Apple, which then lets you run the program virtually as well as make a disk with itself...and from the Receive Menu you can ask it to receive a file from the host - on your Host computer there is an ADTPro/Disks folder you drop your DSK images in to receive on the Apple - hitting enter on the Apple Receive menu where it says Filename will show you all the DSK images on the host computer and you just select the one you want.  However you need a place to store them before you can run them.  I use my Ram Disk or send it to a floppy disk...but because those files are 140k images that is more than you can just send over to RAM.  But try sending the EsDOS files and just see if you get functionality and no errors.  Then try sending over the ADTPro Client and see if it will run, even if you cant do much with it.  However if that works...then try it with your disk drive installed and an old floppy disk and see if you can make a disk with it - like the ADTPro disk..or a DOS disk (not ProDos)

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EsDos

After sending EsDos and starting i the pc competely freezes it wont even reset it beeps but doesan do any thing. I had to power it of and on.

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Freezing

I think you hve something hardware going on there then.  Really sounds like RAM related, but possibly something else.  I know those tests you did with the Monitor prompt should help identify RAM issues but might not catch them all, and that program you typed from the Incider magazine was enough to test the computer's main parts, but wasn't a large enough program to fully fill the RAM.  The RAM on your Language card should also be the same as the ones in the banks on the board.  You could always try swapping out a row at a time with the ones taken from the Language Card...then after each row is swapped out try loading one of the Gameserver files from asciiexpress - something small - asteroids, etc...just to see if you can get a program to transfer over and run.  With the Gameserver site you prob  dont need the language card inserted for some of the games since a lot of them are the really old Apple II/II+ style games, you wouldn't need a disk for those games either as they load directly to RAM and run.  I would try a bare bones system, swapping out the RAM off the card one whole row at a time...try it...if it behaves the same, move that row to the next row and put the other row back in...etc until you've tried all three rows being swapped out OR until you find a combination that works.  If all 3 rows swapping out doesn't help them maybe you have more than one bad in more than one row.  Would be nice if you had a bootable floppy disk of DOS, and another one with AppleCillian or Computer Inspector on it to try to see if the floppy would boot for you so you could run some tests.  If you can find a bad RAM situation though and order some new ram chips to replace the bad row you should be able to burn your own disks from the Diskserver site and/or ADT Pro. Try swapping out the 8 RAM from the Language card one row at a time with a row on the board, test it, if still fails, lift that row back out and move to the next row, and put the previously pulled row back in.

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I Tested ram

I replaced evey ram row one at a time and it still gives the configuration error. also the ram from the language card makes the row of @@?? thats shows for a second when you turn on the pc into horizontal rows and only one row instead of 2.

ex @@@@@@@@@ before @@??@@??@@??

     ?????????????????               @@??@@??@@??

 

edit: I found a ram module that doesant work in row c

edit 2 I found another that doesant work in c

Edit 3: I found a 3rd

Edit 4 EsDos still dosant work

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A lot of work!

Ugh.  So I'm almost wondering if something else is going on here.  I really wish you had Facebook and would join the Apple II Ehthusiats Group.  Such a more active group wtih tons of people who might be able to point you in the right direction.  I dont have a II+ and have about reached the end of my knowledge.  What had you done with the board before you began?  You mentioned doing some board work before.  This still really sounds like a RAM issue..but with so many of them I'm not even sure what to tell you.  I could burn and send you a disk or two...including Applicillin or Computer Inspector (or both using the flip sides of the disk).  I figure this is something simple...but I lack the II+ knowledge to further troubleshoot.  Join the FB group and post all this there and I'm almost sure Larry Pell will know what to try as the II+ is his specialty...   

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Thanks

I'll see about the facebook group and if you want to see what I did before you can check on reddit here https://www.reddit.com/r/apple2/comments/jlmklh/apple_ii_plus_6_lines_missing_on_left_of_screen/

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Issues

Ah ok, so it started out as a video issue.  I assume now the video is fine?...and when you typed in that jumping jack program everything worked as well as your   basic/Applesoft commands all work normally.   It's just become some sort of inability to load anything from the casette port and bootstrapping from ADTPro freezes the computer.  This is the facebook group : https://www.facebook.com/groups/5251478676  Join it and post your symptoms and everything you've tried here and see what they have to say.  Some really great Apple II+ guys there who can help further troubleshoot.  It is probably something simple...but so hard to figure out, especiially with no diagnostic disk to run to troubleshoot.  Applecillian and MECC Computer inspector have literally everything you could use to test all the hardware from video to RAM to circuitry...its just you can't get that far to burn a disk of them.  And again you don't have any bootable disks at all to try, right?

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