Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

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Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

According to wikipedia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Castle_Wolfenstein

The source code for this was released after his passing.

I have checked http://mirrors.apple2.org.za in
various sections and cannot find it other than the
game .dsk.

Does anyone know where this is?
And also, does this include Castle Wolfenstein?

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein
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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

Note this is PC (Intel) assembly source.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

david__schmidt wrote:
Note this is PC (Intel) assembly source.

That is obvious to everyone who is interested in this source code! And this is the only source code of BCW that has ever been released.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

So I imagine you can load it into
a cross assembler for the apple? (What
are there?)

Or a PC assembler? (I don't know any.
Can you recommend?

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

If you have never programmed in asm for PC and/or Apple2 (as is the case probably), you'd better forget it.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

georgel wrote:
If you have never programmed in asm for PC and/or Apple2 (as is the case probably), you'd better forget it.

Wishtoknow, ignore the arrogant ass reply from georgel, and ask questions, learn, try things out.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm tired of reading this guys condescending, arrogant and antagonistic posts.
Inevitably they clog up an otherwise interesting or informative thread, making it tough to not read them even briefly as I scroll past them to get to something worth reading.

georgel, why don't you go waste your time somewhere else. You're obviously WAAYYY to knowledgeable for anyone here to keep up with you.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

Watch your words! I can be more eloquent than you, believe me! If you don't like my messages, don't read them Wink I am interested how would you, actually not you, but someone capable of, learn the x86 architecture (or even the simplest 6502 one) in this forum via messages. Sit on your flat stupid "arroganrt ass" and read and learn without questions betraying your total ignorance! RTFM!

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

georgel wrote:
Watch your words! I can be more eloquent than you, believe me! If you don't like my messages, don't read them Wink I am interested how would you, actually not you, but someone capable of, learn the x86 architecture (or even the simplest 6502 one) in this forum via messages. Sit on your flat stupid "arroganrt ass" and read and learn without questions betraying your total ignorance! RTFM!

About what I expected. Eloquence had nothing to do with it, but I wouldn't expect you to understand, or more to the point even care how arrogant your posts can often be.
The previous poster did not ask to learn x86 or 6502 Assembly language via posts in this forum, he simply asked a question about the source code/assemblers to use (not how to use them, although he could ask that and people could point him to the proper learning material)

As is par for the course with many of your posts, you ignore the content and simply spout off whatever you feel like, typically something derogatory/condescending.

I'd say it's probably because you like the sound of your own voice but since it is typed not spoken (unless you speak out loud as you type....hmmmm) it must be your enormous IQ using words beyond our understanding. As I said, you are obviously wasting your time here, you are just too intelligent for us mere mortals to keep up with.

Yawn.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

My reason in raising this topic was to
promote the potential of the code in
which other people could learn from
it use it in their own code (if
they are still programming for the Apple ][).

Now from the research that I am undertanking
about this game. (If other people know more,
then please add/or correct my comments)
His wife at the time felt that his software/code
should be released to the community for this reason
I have stated about.

http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW/faq.html

This is just a port from the orginal version.
Which was written for the Apple ][.
If the PC version exists, then the Apple ][ source
code must also exist.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

wishtoknow wrote:
My reason in raising this topic was to
promote the potential of the code in
which other people could learn from
it use it in their own code (if
they are still programming for the Apple ][).

Well, unfortunately, for whatever reason - the source to the Apple II version has not been released.

wishtoknow wrote:
If the PC version exists, then the Apple ][ source
code must also exist.

Not so. While disassembly of the object code is easy enough to do, the original assembly code as written by Silas himself is far from sure to still exist.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

The PC version was ported from the Apple ][ version.
So they must of had the source code of the Apple ][
version to write the PC version.

So where is the original source code?
Does his wife still have it? Do the owners
of MUSE software have? Or what about ID software?
I have sent an email to the link where
you can download the PC version. Hopefully
I will get a response and further clarification.

It would be good for the community to have the
original source code to learn about
the speech synthesis techniques etc.

I am not finished yet and will do more research.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

ID never had the source code. MUSE is so far gone that... well, I can think of one person who *might* have source code. I'll ask.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

That would be great. Keep me informed.

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

sfahey wrote:
ID never had the source code. MUSE is so far gone that... well, I can think of one person who *might* have source code. I'll ask.

I would be interested in the Source Code too...

I am thinking Multi-Player Wolfenstein....

Marko

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

I thought this thread was supposed to be about that game, not arrogance!

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

wishtoknow wrote:

It would be good for the community to have the
original source code to learn about
the speech synthesis techniques etc.

Just some basic thought about the speech synthesis:
It might be usefull to inspect 2 sources:
The Apple Talker:

http://www.appleii-box.de/H204_AppleTalker.htm

that program permits the user to record speech to a cassette
recorder and then store that speech as string of bytes to disk.....

The second source should be the SAM ( Soft Automated Mouth )....
of course you may object that that program is related to the speech card....
but that´s not the object of interest....
in fact it´s the manual that explains how words are splitted up to vowels and
shows the kind of library structure.... so it´s more about how to store
the kind of speech...:

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/Speech/Don%27t%20Ask%20Software%20Automated%20Mouth/Manuals/S.A.M.%20-%20Owner%27s%20Manual.pdf

Turning back to the Apple Talker then the User might - inspired by the techniques
explained at the SAM - start to build a library of vowels with the Apple Talker
and then use the Apple Talker to record that stuff for a library to be used
with the Apple Talker. Then the routines of the Apple Talker might be used to Output
the stuff at the internal Appleloadspeaker.....
I guess that´s the path the guys making the game also went along...

Then while working with that stuff they started to optimize code for better storage
and better replay by tuning with the parms in the program....
and for sure they will have spent several weeks and nights playing around with the codes...

just my 5 cents...
speedyG

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

wishtoknow wrote:
The PC version was ported from the Apple ][ version.
So they must of had the source code of the Apple ][
version to write the PC version.

Here's how BCW was reversed engineered to obtain the source used to port the game to the PC. They weren't using anything directly from Silas other than the game disk.

http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW/howto.html

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

mmaginnis

Are you reading the wikipedia reference?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Castle_Wolfenstein

The first paragraph states

Beyond Castle Wolfenstein was originally developed simultaneously for both the Apple II and the Commodore 64, but was quickly ported to DOS and the Atari 8-bit.

and also

Legacy

After the death of Silas Warner in 2004, the reconstructed source code and a ported version of the game was released for free by his widow in honor of him.

According to

http://www.oldskool.org/pc/BCW/faq.html

Q) How long has it taken to convert the bootable disk back to source code?

A) I started this project in the summer of 2003, worked on it on and off, then got busy with other things.
After hearing about Silas Warner's untimely death, I had renewed interest in finishing it. Overall, it probably took close to 6 months of spare time to get to a releasable stage, probably about 150 hours total.

How can this be the source code when he died in 2004 and it was then released?

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Re: Beyond Castle Wolfenstein

(I originally posted a response here to wishtoknow, but I can't see how it would lead to anything but conflict and flames so I've replaced it with this. Sorry about that, mods.)

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Don't give up! I haven't.

Don't give up! I haven't.

I have followed the Wikipedia references and came to the understanding that the original Apple ][ binaries were reverse-engineered to "something" (Pseudo code, real sources, etc. -- whatever) and then ported to PC world.

But if you are like me, that just won't do. 6502 assembly source is what I'm talkin' about. And I guess that if ya want a job done right, ya just gotta do it yourself for the fun and love of it.

I spent many hours with breakpoints via the system monitor to inspect and hack the binaries with the monitor and mini-assembler in the Castle Wolfenstein's hey days. I could isolate the voice routines and play back various speech parts on command. There are binary relocatable code parts to look out for; left-over assembler-time junk that might be construed as decoy code. Pretty traceable code and amazing what it could pull off with the limited resources of the day. And always fun to run around with FF (255) bullets and grenades just to test everything, lol, then put it back together for "normal" runs.

Time to get back to this again..don't give up or capitulate to PC sources! Long live the Apple ][ version!

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Lol..multi-player

Lol..multi-player

..over a serial connection port off Apple ][s.. Anything is possible. It would be fun to get things into modern networks.

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