Getting Apple ][ on a //e at boot

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: Dec 7 2021 - 01:58
Posts: 12
Getting Apple ][ on a //e at boot

Hi, recently i picked up an old Apple //e from my infancy.   This computer was held at a repair shop (that my dad used to own) many years ago.   A blast from the past, i recovered some of the usabel hardware there.    Well in any case, the system was not booting.   I repaired the PSU, changed a shorted cap on the baord, reseated the chips and finally got it working.    

 

Now the weird thing is that when the system boots i see the following, not that i removed all cards:

1. It says Apple ][ not Apple //e  - is that normal?   or maybe the system has the wrong ROM chip? like an old Apple ][ ROM chip?

2. The delete key doesn't work, it gives a block character when i press it. 

3. I get "KERNEL OK" when i run the self-test

 

Is this normal behavior? any hints? i remember this computers used to show Apple //e at boot on top of the screen.    Just looked at some YouTUbe videos and yes they show Apple iie.    The motherboard clearly says it is an apple //e

 

thanks

 

Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jul 14 2018 - 12:54
Posts: 119
Everything you describe is

Everything you describe is perfectly normal for an un-enhanced //e, though your right that it's an older ROM.  The Enhanced ROMs came out in 1984 to bring the //e in line (software wise) with the //c.  Those are the ones that say "Apple //e" on startup, and allow you to program in BASIC using lowercase letters.  If you want, there are enhancement kits out there with the newer ROMs and a 65C02 processor, but honestly most of the software out there will work regardless.

As for the Delete key, that's normal too (even for an enhanced machine).   The back arrow will let you edit in BASIC, and generally you would hit Space to remove characters.  The key should function as a Delete in word processors though.  

"KERNAL OK" is what you expect from an un-enhanced //e.  An enhanced machine will say "System OK".

Honestly, it sounds like everything is good with your machine.  Congrats!!!

Offline
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: Dec 7 2021 - 01:58
Posts: 12
Thanks so much, this is great

Thanks so much, this is great news.   I guess i remember having enhanced e's around as well.    A couple of extra observations:

 

  1. I tried "PEEK 64899" and get SYNTAX ERROR   -  found here https://wiki.preterhuman.net/APPLE_CALL,_PEEK,_POKE_LIST
  2. The keyboard is pretty bouncy - is there a chance that the KB debounce circuit is somehow not working properly?

 

Thanks

Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jul 14 2018 - 12:54
Posts: 119
1) The problem is that you

1) The problem is that you haven't told the computer what to do with the "PEEK" command.  Also, the number needs to be in parentheses (not sure why, but it does).   Try "PRINT PEEK(64889)".  The "PRINT" command tells it to print the result to the screen.  Not all forms of BASIC need that, but AppleSoft apparently does.

2) It's possible, but that can also be the symptom of a dirty key switch or board.  Try some contact cleaner first (rubbing alcohol works in a pinch, DeOxit is best).  Note: do this while the computer is off.  The liquid will short out the switch until it drys. 

I would begin by figuring out which keys bounce.  If it's just a few or a number of specific keys, then the problem is likely just the switches.  If it's all of them, check the keyboard PCB and its connections to the motherboard.  Also, try reseating the Keyboard Encoder chip at E14 on the motherboard (it's the 40-pin IC separate from the CPU, IOU, and MMU).  You might also try spraying some DeOxit into the socket as well.  If the problem persists, the issue could be the capacitor C71 at E14 or the Encoder itself is going bad.

Beyond that, look for dry solder connections or debris that might be causing a short.  As you said, this thing's been in storage for a while, so time and environmental factors may have caused some issues that will need to be worked out.  

Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jul 14 2018 - 12:54
Posts: 119
A fun but not really

A fun but not really important note that I just found out:  The "PEEK" command you're using doesn't indicate the model machine your're using as much as it identifies the version of BASIC.  Thus, while an un-enhanced //e will return 255, an enhanced //e will give 234, same as on the Franklin Ace and Apple //c (no doubt due to each computer's ability to enter and edit BASIC in lowercase).  I also get the same result from Apple CP/M version of MicroSoft BASIC on an Apple ][ Plus. 

Go into Ineger BASIC, and the command "PRINT PEEK 64899" (note the lack of parentheses in Integer) will give you a 0, regardless of machine or weather Ineger is loaded from disk or ROM.  

Offline
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: Dec 7 2021 - 01:58
Posts: 12
Yeah, i missed the print

Yeah, i missed the print piece of it.    So i ran:  "PRINT PEEK (64899)"  and get 255.   So that now works. 

Well, i had reseated the chips and used de-oxit on the board.   I now put some de-oxit on the keys, waiting for it to dry, but with 3-4 hours wait, still see the bouncing in a few keys.   I'll give it more time and see what happens.     Are these switches removable for individual cleaning/reconditioning or are these black boxes?

Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: Jul 14 2018 - 12:54
Posts: 119
You should work the

You should work the keyswitches after spraying the DeOxit to wear down the oxidation.  And yes the switches are removable, but they need to be desoldered first.  Disassembly and reassembly procedures will depend on the kind of switch.

Offline
Last seen: 2 months 6 days ago
Joined: May 27 2013 - 13:01
Posts: 849
The easiest way to tell the

The easiest way to tell the difference between the enhanced boards and the earlier ones is to look at the year printed on the top left side of the motherboard.

 

 There are 3 of them:

 

1982=unenhanced iie

1984=enhanced iie

1986=enhanced iie platinum motherboard.

You may find sometimes that an enhanced iie motherboard 1984 has its chips switched. Make sure that the CPU, CD ROM, EF ROM and the VIDEO ROM chips have matching part numbers written on the motherboard next to the chips.

Strangely enough, a 1984 board might have had its chips taken is evidence that the board is new. But that's my speculation.

The keyboard on a iie usually has long keyswitches.

The frame for the keyboard is made of aluminum or steel. Also, it might have a slight different positioning of the delete key so that means that the keyboards and the keys themselves are not always interchangeable.

 

Log in or register to post comments