SoftSP Smartport card "Grappler Minus"

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SoftSP Smartport card "Grappler Minus"

Got a spare Grappler Minus card for sale.

 

It gives slotted Apple II computers (II+ and IIe) smartport capability with devices like the Fujinet, SPIISD HD device and Kboohk's WDrive.  Works great with the Unisdisk Air for those that still have one.  Fully tested.  

$30 plus shipping.

 

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Did you repair the floating

Did you repair the floating input on the quad latch?

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This is CC BY NC-SA 4.0

I'm Kay Koba, and I sent you a message via eBay, you ignore my messages and continue the listing...

And I found this post today.

My designs are free for your personal use, but cannot be sold "forever".

This violates my license. Please delete the list immediately. 

 

Many designers who use GitHub are just designing. However, some designers... including myself,

run our own stores. There is a monthly cost to operate the store. So, if I want to sell my own designs,

I would like to sell them only on my own store. *or only to licensed sellers

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

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yes

yes

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What is “yes”? I told you to

What is “yes”? I told you to stop listing. But you don't withdraw the listing, just write "Yes" here. Where is your justice? Don't you think your friends here are also seeing this? I'm tweeting this exchange. Other Apple II users are also seeing this. 

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When I saw this post at first

When I saw this post at first I didn't think much of it, as it looked like a single spare card. With this license in regards to an ebay listing, I must agree it's not a good feeling to see someone [unlicensed] selling these in any quantity. 

 

It would be nice to see licensing wishes respected in our community. Perhaps some may argue that an at cost sale might not violate a non commercial use license; I wouldn't personally try to cling to that stance in the face of a projects license holder. How much is your labor valued for "not a profit" if not charity? Does ebay not profit? Anyway...

 

Sure, it is tempting to build a bunch of these, but the license says I can't sell them. In these cases I am left with little choice but to be appreciative that I can build the project at all, thanks to the source being available in the first place. 

 

 

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Hi skate323k137,Thank you for

Hi skate323k137,

Thank you for your valuable opinion. IDK anything about this place... so I was waiting for someone to reply.

My thoughts are as stated above. But there are other PCB designers like me, but those who don't have a store do not intend to sell, and also allow them to sell with a completely free license. However, since I also have a store, I incur monthly fixed costs even if I do nothing. Therefore, I would like to sell my own designs. They may eventually make it all free, but that's not the case right now.

As you say, if he use someone's design and make a clone, all he has to do in return is say "thank you", but that didn't happen.Unfortunately I have some designs and CC BY-NC-SA4.0, but cloners are everywhere. They just need to make products from designers that "allow" cloning, but the silkscreen on my PCB says "NO COMERCIAL SALE" so I would like them to differentiate. Thank you.

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I don't think Baldrick

I don't think Baldrick intended to sell for a profit or try to depive anyone of sales.  I would expect he probably bought an extra PCB that he didn't need for himself and was just trying to pass it along.

 

I've built a lot of cards, but I've rarely ever sold any.  In general I've found trying to sell cards to be more trouble than it is worth.  Too much costs and potential risk of gettng ripped off and nobody even wants to pay enough to cover materials costs and postage let alone anything to cover the time buidling them.  So I basically only build for myself.

 

To be fair to Baldrick, once a certain amount of time has passed he can no longer edit or remove his posting, so he has limited options as far as  retracting the offer.  I took his "yes" as an agreement to that point, but I guess it is a little ambigious.

 

 

 

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softwarejanitor wrote:I don't
softwarejanitor wrote:

I don't think Baldrick intended to sell for a profit or try to depive anyone of sales.  I would expect he probably bought an extra PCB that he didn't need for himself and was just trying to pass it along.

This is how it came across to me which is why I didn't reply at first. However there's an ebay listing using what appears to be this photo on first glance, with multiple available. 

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I will only write the facts

I will only write the facts so that my subjective opinion does not come into play:

 

- He listed a clone of my card on eBay for 50 CAD. (*Looking at his eBay sold history, it seems he sold one.)  And here He is approaching you to sell it for 30 USD.In comparison... my store sells it for 21 USD, which I think is a "good profit". 

 

- I sent him a message via eBay asking him to stop selling it, but he continues to ignore it and the listing remains as is.If you don't intend to make a profit and just want to sell your surplus parts, will you be selling them at a higher price than the official seller? It is different.

If you want to sell surplus parts, it should be as close to the cost price as possible, and if you get a warning that it violates the license, you should stop selling it.

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I built several of these for

I built several of these for friends and gave them away.  I kept several for personal use.

I have never claimed the tech to be mine, and credited the designer.

 

I spent a considerable amount of time sourcing high quality new production primary market parts and spent several hours testing the hardware.

So now I have a couple left over and have offered them to the community at as near my cost as possible.

 

As for licensing, the license CLEARLY states that someone can build them and offer them non-commercially.

Read the license here:  https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/  and see for yourself.

If the maker truly wants to stifle any kind of secondary market on these, then he should close the source, make the github private, or change the licensing to a commercial product.

 

If anyone wants this card, great.  If you don't then also great.  I'm not making a dime off of this sale.  I'm actually selling it at a loss by breaking even. 

 

I have several projects uploaded to github that others have taken verbatim, built and have for sale on ebay right now.  All I say about that is I think it's terrific.

 

If Kay Koba doesn't like it then I'm sorry he doesn't like it.  

 

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 baldrick wrote:If the maker

 

baldrick wrote:

If the maker truly wants to stifle any kind of secondary market on these, then he should close the source, make the github private, or change the licensing to a commercial product.

 

While your opinion is noted, I condend it's also entirely irellevant since you aren't the maker of the design. Deal with it; he has every right to use an existing license. 

 

Sorry you dislike the license the creator has every right to use. All you're seemingly accomplishing right now with this display is making it less appealing for people who do offer things under a similar, but also commercial use allowed, open source licensing. That card has like $10 of parts, quit the antics.  

 

And I did read the license; I usually do. I also read this:

If you are unsure, you should either contact the rights holder for clarification, or search for works that permit commercial uses.

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I withdraw my sale offering.

I see I am not going anywhere with this, so I withdraw my sale offering.

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baldrick wrote:I see I am not
baldrick wrote:

I see I am not going anywhere with this, so I withdraw my sale offering.

 

I'm sorry it has to end up like this.  It is issues like this why I generally don't bother to try to sell any of the stuff I build even though I often end up with extras due to the number of PCBs and parts I have to buy in order to get reasonable pricing or just minimums or lot sizes things are sold in.

 

It just turns out not to be worth the trouble at some point.

 

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softwarejanitor wrote: It is
softwarejanitor wrote:
 

It is issues like this why I generally don't bother to try to sell any of the stuff I build even though I often end up with extras due to the number of PCBs and parts I have to buy

 

It's easy. If it says CC 4.0 NC, that means Non Commercial.  Pick a different board, or design your own.  My SoftSP boards are on their way from JLC. It's my PCB design, so there won't be any issue with selling anything extra.

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chrisa850 wrote
chrisa850 wrote:
softwarejanitor wrote:
 

It is issues like this why I generally don't bother to try to sell any of the stuff I build even though I often end up with extras due to the number of PCBs and parts I have to buy

 

It's easy. If it says CC 4.0 NC, that means Non Commercial.  Pick a different board, or design yo

Sure, but that's not even completely what I was talking about.  It's just not worth the time to build and try to sell even unencumbered boards because the cost of parts, shipping, etc., isn't even covered by what most people are willing to pay for the boards, let alone enough to compensate at all for the time to source the parts, assemble, test, handle the sales, packing shipping, etc.  It's a money loser.  That was one of the things Baldrick said that he's completely right about.  At the price he was asking he was probably losing money on it.  The bottom line is then, that basically the number of new boards that are going to be built and available to anyone who isn't capable of doing it themselves is going to be pretty limited.  Even without further IP restrictions.  It is what it is.  I've got literally dozens of extra boards of various types, none of which have the restrictions of this one, that are just going to stay in my inventory.

 

 

 

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chrisa850 wrote:It's easy. If
chrisa850 wrote:

It's easy. If it says CC 4.0 NC, that means Non Commercial.  Pick a different board, or design your own.  My SoftSP boards are on their way from JLC. It's my PCB design, so there won't be any issue with selling anything extra.

 

 

NC means Non-Commercial, and that has a clear legal definition.  Sale for profit by a company is a key in commercialism.

Sale for cost recovery by individuals is NOT commercial.

The maker selected a license that allowed non-commercial sale, but his intent wss for zero resales.  That's the crux of this issue and why I withdrew the sale.

I'll probably dismantle it and harvest the parts as spares at this point.

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baldrick wrote: NC means Non
baldrick wrote:
 

NC means Non-Commercial, and that has a clear legal definition.  Sale for profit by a company is a key in commercialism.

Sale for cost recovery by individuals is NOT commercial.

 

Your definition of non-commercial is not the same as the written definition in the Creative Commons deed.

 

The CC 4.0 deed clearly defines states "Non-Commercial - You may not use the material for commercial purposes". The deed later states "A commercial use is one primarily intended for commercial advantage or monetary compensation". The license never mentions cost recovery nor profit. I know many commercial businesses that never make a profit.

 

If you are going to dismantle the device it should because the version you built doesn't actually work properly anyway. 

 

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baldrick wrote:chrisa850
baldrick wrote:
chrisa850 wrote:

It's easy. If it says CC 4.0 NC, that means Non Commercial.  Pick a different board, or design your own.  My SoftSP boards are on their way from JLC. It's my PCB design, so there won't be any issue with selling anything extra.

 

 

NC means Non-Commercial, and that has a

 

 

I agree with your definition of "commercial".  The key is that you did not make the card(s) with the intention of making a profit.  The fact that some companies fail to make a profit does not mean they were founded and operated with intent to lose money.  Sadly, I think dismantling the card and re-using the parts for something else is an entirely reasonable thing to do at this point if you don't need it and can't re-sell it.  Sad that it has to come to that.  But basically it is the only way to recover anything.

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chrisa850 wrote:baldrick
chrisa850 wrote:
baldrick wrote:
 

NC means Non-Commercial, and that has a clear legal definition.  Sale for profit by a company is a key in commercialism.

Sale for cost recovery by individuals is NOT commercial.

 

Your definition of non-commercial is not the same as the written definition in the Creative Comm

 

 

The words you are completely discounting are "primarily intended"

 

What you are saying SHOULD be the reason for dismantling the card aren't completely incorrect, but he's kind of painted into a corner at this point.  Parting someting out because you judt don't need it is a valid reason even if unfortunate.

 

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